Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

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brianobush
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by brianobush » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:03 am

Just (re-)purchased the PH mk3 used and it arrived in almost new condition, except one of the blue trim pots was bent half-way over. This is used to tune one of the oscillators. I bent it partially back into position but didn't want the pins to break. It seems in working order, is there anyway I can tell if it is faulty aside from attempting to calibrate it (I don't have the necessary voltages)?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:28 am

You could try if both oscillators are in tune with each other over a useful range of octaves. If it is the tuning trimmer for just one of them you should not need much effort to do so, but you also could set them to the same low sine tone, plug the same pitch CV into bot v/oct inputs and listen if they stay in tune and if the pitch moves in octaves when the CV increases by 1 V.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:51 pm

something that i dont understand on my phmk3:
the last wavetablebank (z-slot 8) equals the first wt-bank (z-slot 1) when morph is enabled for the z-axis.
when i disabled morph then the correct bank is avaiable at slot 8. why?
i use 5 banks from waveedit lib along with 3 factory banks… if that matters.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:03 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:05 am
mt3 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:12 pm
johannes wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:59 am
is it possible to morph between random generated presets without saving them?
when randomizing the current preset it instantly changes the sound, right.
i wonder if it is possible to drift/morph from one randomized preset to the next?

Yes to all.
No, this is not possible. You can only morph through presets that have been saved before. Ramdomizing all parameters can be done manually from the preset menu but will not automatically be saved to a preset or in preset mode with preset input set to trigger random, which would not automatically be saved to a preset either. Also when you use the preset input for triggering random parameter changes you can not use it at the same time to morph through presets.
Hmmmm.... I was wrong and Leverkusen's info is correct Though I think there might be a bug in Morph mode...

In Morph mode, send a CV to the Preset CV input (making sure the Ctl option setting is CV+Offset or CV+Atten).
The Preset isn't changing on the display in Morph mode but does so in Preset mode.
X, Y, and Z parameters are also updating in both modes.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:24 pm

Maybe it's like that because in Morph mode there is always a base preset that sets the parameters which are not able to get morphed without discontinuities like unison. When you morph through the presets, depending on where you start it always sounds different for every base preset.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by brianobush » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:31 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:28 am
You could try if both oscillators are in tune with each other over a useful range of octaves. If it is the tuning trimmer for just one of them you should not need much effort to do so, but you also could set them to the same low sine tone, plug the same pitch CV into bot v/oct inputs and listen if they stay in tune and if the pitch moves in octaves when the CV increases by 1 V.
Thanks, this worked perfectly; used my T43 octave+ switch.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:16 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:24 pm
Maybe it's like that because in Morph mode there is always a base preset that sets the parameters which are not able to get morphed without discontinuities like unison. When you morph through the presets, depending on where you start it always sounds different for every base preset.
I believe Morph mode worked similarly to Preset mode in a previous firmware version.
Hence my saying yes to all of the previous poster's questions (except for saving the presets, I missed that in the question).
:hmm:
Last edited by mt3 on Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:17 pm

DOUBLE POSTAGE.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:51 am

i just noticed that also the last slot of x and y axis seems to contain a copy from the first slot of that axis.
so wavetable 1 and 8 are the same. (also 8 and 16, 16 and 24, 24 and 32)
same is true for z. so wavetablebank 1 and 8 are identical as well. is this a special setting?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:21 am

mt3 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:16 pm
Leverkusen wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:24 pm
Maybe it's like that because in Morph mode there is always a base preset that sets the parameters which are not able to get morphed without discontinuities like unison. When you morph through the presets, depending on where you start it always sounds different for every base preset.
I believe Morph mode worked similarly to Preset mode in a previous firmware version.
Hence my saying yes to all of the previous poster's questions (except for saving the presets, I missed that in the question).
:hmm:
Hertz Donut mk III does the same thing as well (Morph mode doesn't change the preset number when a CV is applied to Preset CV).
I must have been hallucinating before.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by mt3 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:22 am

Mabuse wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:51 am
i just noticed that also the last slot of x and y axis seems to contain a copy from the first slot of that axis.
so wavetable 1 and 8 are the same. (also 8 and 16, 16 and 24, 24 and 32)
same is true for z. so wavetablebank 1 and 8 are identical as well. is this a special setting?
Those are the default wavebanks? They're probably like that for smoother transitions. Happens to be that way in various wavebanks.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:40 am

Mabuse wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:51 am
i just noticed that also the last slot of x and y axis seems to contain a copy from the first slot of that axis.
so wavetable 1 and 8 are the same. (also 8 and 16, 16 and 24, 24 and 32)
same is true for z. so wavetablebank 1 and 8 are identical as well. is this a special setting?
This only occurs when morph is enabled and you are using the sliders. It goes back to the first wave at the top then but the wave is not actually doubled in the wave bank. There are eight waves and then the first one again on the top. When you disable morph you can verify eight different waves and when you use CV every single wave form occurs exactly one time at the right spot without a double slot for the first one.

I guess it is a feature for playing the sliders and having some kind of home base at each end of the slider as it is not possible to wrap around with the slider as using CV would do when the eighth wave form is exceeded.
Last edited by Leverkusen on Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:04 am

yes you are right. it seems that the "copy" of the frst slot is placed as an extra slot right above the slot 8.
that confused me cause i simply cranked up the slider til max and wondered why that table sounds like the first one… thanks a lot, leverkusen!

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:41 am

Happy to help - I am glad that I could clear this up!
:)

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:53 pm

While we are at it - I noticed something strange on my PH. Respectively I traced something down, that I had vaguely noticed from time to time. I did not follow it closely because I rarely use CV over Z but just dial it in by hand and leave it like that and modulate X and Y.

So with the slider fully down (and X/Y set appropriately) get a somehow dirty sine wave. To get the clean sine I would expect there I have to move it up quite a bit (see pic). Also the CV control over Z does only work properly when the slider ist set to that point or above. When it is set below that point there seems to be something like a negative offset and positive CV has a lesser effect as if it has to travel the way up to where the clean sine can be found. In other words: The first wave bank moved up a bit on the slider and below that there is a dirty version of it with less CV control - if that makes sense.

Is this something others do experience too?
IMG_5568.JPG
...it randomly rotated picture time again. :goo:
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:44 pm

do you refering to specific wavetable-bank?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:13 pm

It is a bit hard to word. When you look at slider Z at the picture - that is the point where I am in Bank 1, which should be at the lowest point slider range. AT the lowest point of the slider range I have slightly distorted version of bank 1 and cropped CV control.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:16 pm

i see.
you have your 8 banks stll there but all slots on the z-axis are shifted (so 1 sits where 2 sits, 2 where 3…) ?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:23 pm

Yes, exactly - and 8 is nowhere... :(

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:36 pm

so 7 banks + 1 bank filled with dirt.
generally or does this only happen for some specific wtbanks?
will keep my eyes and ears open…

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:45 pm

It seems that now it was me hallucinating - I can't reproduce it anymore. Maybe I just got confused with all the sine waves that occur in different places within the banks. Though I sometimes had a feeling that the banks occasionally got shifted when plugging cables in and out. Could also be confusion about select status and slider positions...anyway, seems to work now. :zombie:

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:15 pm

As we talk about clean sines. I played with bank 2 of the factory banks and when i morph manually through the tables (starting with a pure sine) i can hear a low level buzzing noise. its quite noticable when i start moving the slider or move the slider faster.
From what I've tried it seems that the lower the frequency of the vco the more distinct the buzzing gets. Lowering the freq also changes the sound of the buzzing. Not sure if it changes the pitch of the buzz but it definitely affecting the buzz somehow.

Any ideas?
Something that i can do about it?

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:18 am

small update: it seems that with a higher pitched vco the problem is less present.
i also note that when i cv-modulate the x or y axis i get this buzzing/cackling as well… whatever that means.

here is a audiofile that shows whats going on:
ph_check.mp3
(starting with coarse at noon than down to min and up to max at arround 50 sec an lfo is taking control over x axis )
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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:45 am

Yes, morphing is a bit gritty - I guess you can only hear it in bank 2 because it is the only more or less clean sounding bank. I have not looked at the wave tables in Wave Edit yet, so I can't tell if it is the wave files or the transition process between them in the module. I would estimate the latter, as it is a IME/Harvestman module and it sounds a bit like zipper noise from transition steps to me. If you go really slow they are less pronounced, if not totally gone.

While I too had expected the orthodox mode to be totally clean, I also did not grasp the other three tone modes - do you hear any differences between them?

By the Way ist bank 1 wave 1 a clean sine for you? Mine is more gritty than bank 2 wave 1, which lead me to the wrong conclusions I made above.

All in all I still really like the sound of the PH and all quirks that I discovered by now are okay to me. For clean wave table sounds the Syntech approach might be the better choice, though I never tried one and found the only module I had from them to be far from perfect.

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Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by johannes » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:24 pm

thank you for elabrating.
i just compared ph and waveedit playback of bank 2 and there is no buzz or anything the like in waveedit.
with my ph i also tried bank_a.wav from the e350/352 factory bank (included in the infamos waveedit library)
wich is also a sine progression and i get the same buzz there as well…
also checked bank 1 wave 1. yes, its not a clean sine (listen to it in waveedit and on my ph).

if you listen to orthodox and the 3 other mode on a clean sine or something with just a few overtones its sounds like
orthodox = clean, degenerate = bit reduced (8 bit?), problematic = noisy and pathologic = a combination of the latter two.

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