Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
Sinamsis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4299
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:36 am
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Sinamsis » Sat May 23, 2020 9:52 am

Zerius wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:12 am
Patch exploring PH3 in distorted context, modulations are scanning thru waves tables and I manually play with fm of both oscillators

That sounds fantastic.

studioutopia
Common Wiggler
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by studioutopia » Sat May 23, 2020 10:14 am

Just a note on "wobbly pots". The Two large pitch knobs are not wobbly at all. And the mini pots (ie. CV attenuverters on the two VCOs) are no different than any other module out there.
The only ones that are wobbly are the XYZ attenuverters and the OSC A FM.
And I'll offer a reason why. These are not regular pots. These are actually trimmers with optional knobs on them. You have the option of taking off the knobs so that they are "un-bumpable", and take extra effort to adjust. They have a screwdriver slot on them (like a trimmer), and they intentionally have a bit of "give". They are typically used in larger industrial equipment, and are quite rugged. I've seen these used in electronic equipment in satellite and telemetry equipment for the oil+gas and mining industries. Not sure if these are the environmentally sealed versions - but I think it's brilliant that these are on IME's modules. For someone who performs live - take off those knobs and you won't bump your settings by accident.

Mabuse
Common Wiggler
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:09 am

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mabuse » Sat May 23, 2020 11:47 am

thanks studioutopia, thats very helpful. i had no idea that you can take them off.
scott replied to my request and mentioned that they may switch the type of potentiometers for a better feel.
so they know about it.

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sat May 23, 2020 12:56 pm

Mabuse wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:47 am
scott replied to my request and mentioned that they may switch the type of potentiometers for a better feel.
so they know about it.
I don't want to reach too far but it also somehow implies that it is more a matter of 'feel' or taste than of quality. I like how they feel and soemhow remember reading about the same felt issue with Buchla pots years ago.

Of course it is okay to like or not like how they feel and discuss these things on a forum. It's not necessarily a quality issue though.

User avatar
Zerius
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:37 pm
Location: BZH

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Zerius » Sun May 24, 2020 4:28 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:52 am
Zerius wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:12 am
Patch exploring PH3 in distorted context, modulations are scanning thru waves tables and I manually play with fm of both oscillators

That sounds fantastic.
Thanks a lot ! Had lots of fun with that patch

User avatar
Tonefloat01
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:06 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Tonefloat01 » Mon May 25, 2020 11:33 am

studioutopia wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:59 pm
I just uploaded 8 wavetables from the Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator into my Piston Honda MkIII.
I’m curious how you made your 259e wavetables, did you make them yourself from an actual 259e?
I just recently purchased a 259e myself and haven’t made any wavetables yet via the WaveEdit software but plan to do so.
Did you use that or did you go the Serum route to make them?
The space you occupy determines the time that you live in.

droningspaghettimonster
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 558
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by droningspaghettimonster » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:39 am

any news on a firmware fixes for the slew introduced in 1.7?

Mr.Username
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:39 am

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Mr.Username » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:14 pm

Greetings!
I love my PHIII, it is kind of amazing.
My problem is it sounds kind of annoying, and not so beautiful, do you know what I mean?
Has anyone had any luck with the unison, and, and perhaps using the two oscillators as dyads?
I have been using a delay, and an L-1 VCA.
It would be great to hear what other results people are able to get out of the PHIII.
Also: I haven't seen a library of updated wavetables... it would be great to have a bit more of a community around this piece of hardware.
OK: hope you are all super!
thanks in advance for any feedback!

studioutopia
Common Wiggler
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:28 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by studioutopia » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Mr.Username wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:14 pm
Greetings!
I love my PHIII, it is kind of amazing.
My problem is it sounds kind of annoying, and not so beautiful, do you know what I mean?
Has anyone had any luck with the unison, and, and perhaps using the two oscillators as dyads?
I have been using a delay, and an L-1 VCA.
It would be great to hear what other results people are able to get out of the PHIII.
Also: I haven't seen a library of updated wavetables... it would be great to have a bit more of a community around this piece of hardware.
OK: hope you are all super!
thanks in advance for any feedback!
I've done a number of tracks making use of unison detune, and dyads. Here are a couple:
https://soundcloud.com/eduardinhobranco ... ur-seasons
This next one, I used PH3 to create a pad that sounds more like a big polysynth.
https://soundcloud.com/eduardinhobranco ... the-second

For wavetables - download all of these and create a set of 8 from them - the manual describes how to set up an SDcard for this.
https://waveeditonline.com
PH3 requires 8 wave files, each containing 64 waveforms (33KB).
You can also create your own with Waveedit.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm

droningspaghettimonster wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:39 am
any news on a firmware fixes for the slew introduced in 1.7?
you know, I finally was able to update my PHMkIII to 1.7 and any slew that's added isn't perceptible to me.

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm

Hm, I made a short comparison sample using two sequencer with several oscillators - I am not sure anymore if 1.7 really does introduce more slew than there was in 1.6 but there definetly is slew on th epitch input. So yours does not sound like this?


autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:26 pm

here's my comparison of PH MKIII (firmware v1.7) vs. Dixie I vs. HD MKIII (firmware v1.6):



i think the differences are pretty subtle, and i guess i hear a bit of slew in the IME oscillators. i'm just using a squarp pyramid's CV out to sequence the oscillators' pitches and recording straight out of the oscillators into my interface.

in your clip it sounds like you're using a VCA or LPG after the oscillator, and like there's maybe some kind of lag with the IME oscillators in updating their pitches, such that they're shifting after your attack stages? you can have such a lag with or without slewed transitions. it's not great, and i guess i haven't noticed it because i use NSL-32 vactrol VCAs, which soften my attacks a bit (my preference for avoiding clicks when fast attacks gate harmonically sparse waveforms at some non-zero-crossing phase).

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm

Yes, I was using the Double Andore II in that test. Though not with super fast (zero) attack times to avoid clicks too. One would thinkt they should work together.

It might be then that lag is the better word for the issue than slew. As far as I understood it was introduced in the MKIII line by a lower CV read rate to save processor power. To me this would be a no-go for a pitch input as it makes it like unusable with envelopes as you pointed out.

My MKI and MKII oscillators don't behave like that and if a designer decides to compromise pitch accuracy in such a way I would honestly wish that he would be very open about it in the module description. There is certainly some kind of character to be expected with IME modules but the new MKIII line is marketed as beeing great sounding and more precise while maintaining the gritty sound character if wished for. Having lower response on the V/oct input than the older lines does not really fit in there to me.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:50 am

My demo was not very helpful because the issue is really only apparent when you use a VCA + envelope. When I do that, it sounds exactly like your demo @Leverkusen. So, it's not a slew but a lag in updating pitch CV. It's pretty much not great, when you aren't papering over it with slower attack times.

Have you written to Scott about it?

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:49 am

I've measured 7 milliseconds of latency in 1v/oct CV updating, as compared to a Dixie:
Screenshot 2020-07-03 at 2.34.22 PM.png
closer to 8 milliseconds on the Hertz Donut MkIII.

really hope this can be fixed through firmware.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

droningspaghettimonster
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 558
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by droningspaghettimonster » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:38 am

has scott commented on weather or not he has any plans to do anything about this? he hasn't answered any of my emails for months now, neither questions nor bug reports etc...

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:12 am

speaking only for myself, I emailed him today for the first time about this issue, so I won't expect a reply for several weeks probably

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2250
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:54 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:49 am
I've measured 7 milliseconds of latency in 1v/oct CV updating, as compared to a Dixie:
Screenshot 2020-07-03 at 2.34.22 PM.png

closer to 8 milliseconds on the Hertz Donut MkIII.

really hope this can be fixed through firmware.
Thank you for doing the measurments! It's good to see it a bit more objectified.

I talked to Scott about the lag half a year ago for the first time, mostly in regard of the Donut which also has an issue with the preset system. In spring he planned it to be fixed with the latest batch in May but as it seems it did not work out by now.

I guess more requests would make it more urgent so it's also good to see more people asking for this to be fixed.
:-/ :help: :despair: :|

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:44 pm

well I'm encouraged to hear that he views this as fixable. if not, I would sadly consider jumping ship to an e352, but i would miss quite a lot if I did that

abozzelli
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:12 am

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by abozzelli » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:49 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:49 am
I've measured 7 milliseconds of latency in 1v/oct CV updating, as compared to a Dixie:
Screenshot 2020-07-03 at 2.34.22 PM.png

closer to 8 milliseconds on the Hertz Donut MkIII.

really hope this can be fixed through firmware.
same bug on Kermit mk3 and no reply from support :despair:
hope to get it fixed soon, it's unusable as is.

autopoiesis
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: Piston Honda MKIII dual morphing wavetable oscillator

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:35 am

I received a thorough and considerate reply from IME; Scott was away traveling to confirm the continued factory production of his modules. he's working on the latency, though there can be no promises yet how much it's able to be reduced.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”