Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

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TheNthMan
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Re: Grayscale Mutable clones aren’t open source anymore?

Post by TheNthMan » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:22 am

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:40 am
I wasn't quoting "you" (per se) I was replying to the concept of "letter of the law vs just being a shit". Nothing personal, it was a reply to the idea. The idea had to be ~quoted~ so the reader knew what I was referring to. This is an open discussion in an open forum, I took something uttered during that discussion and extended the concept. Nothing personal towards you.
Understood! Just one of those misunderstandings that come from discussion boards vs in person discussion. Updating my post to reflect that!

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Yes Powder » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:57 am

So can we, as users also do a better job of calling out people making 1:1 clones en masse of modules still in production by designer, like Momo Modular?

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Re: Grayscale Mutable clones aren’t open source anymore?

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:04 am

TheNthMan wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:22 am
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:40 am
I wasn't quoting "you" (per se) I was replying to the concept of "letter of the law vs just being a shit". Nothing personal, it was a reply to the idea. The idea had to be ~quoted~ so the reader knew what I was referring to. This is an open discussion in an open forum, I took something uttered during that discussion and extended the concept. Nothing personal towards you.
Understood! Just one of those misunderstandings that come from discussion boards vs in person discussion. Updating my post to reflect that!
Not even a problem. I've gotten myself into more trouble over the years due to the ~numb~ conversations the internet creates. "Numb" since nearly all feeling, emotion, and expression is either non-existent or poorly translated. I'm rather animated when I speak .. facial expressions, pitch of my voice, tonal changes, body language ... all a part of my normal communications with people when face to face. Take all of that away and all that's left are the words. Think of how poorly song lyrics translate without the music and backup singers to support the song as a whole expression.

I know everyone already gets all of this ... I suppose I'm just spouting.

:)
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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by pld » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:34 am

Yes Powder wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:57 am
So can we, as users also do a better job of calling out people making 1:1 clones en masse of modules still in production by designer, like Momo Modular?
That's definitely the most irksome case IMO.
I guess my vague worries are that punishing bad != rewarding good, handling subjective or edge cases, and it getting out of hand without something like "due process" (hence my interest in examples). As well as - at the risk of being preachy - a path for forgiveness because everyone makes mistakes. Which is all spectacularly wishy-washy :razz:

It maybe gets compounded by the somewhat double-edged sword of
Kattefjaes wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:05 am
This is a specific person making cool, interesting, playful instruments, not some faceless corporation.
While it's not a corporation, there are still business interests. Also wishy-washy I guess :)

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by sempervirent » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:21 pm

drip.feed wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:11 am
Kinda raises the question of what's the point of a creative commons license in the first place? Legally, Wes was in the clear; public opinion says Wes was out of line.

Given the public outcry in this tiny community when someone breaches, or even questions, the spirit of a license, why have an official license at all? Cloners will ignore it anyway. And people adhering to the letter of the license will get crucified.

Why not just GPL everything you can, and add a statement on your site saying "share absolutely everything derived from my work."?
Thanks. These are good questions that people should keep asking. It's something that the OSH community in general struggles with. Look at what happened with Arduino, they also use CC-BY-SA:

How to spot a counterfeit Arduino
https://www.arduino.cc/en/products/counterfeit

Imagine having to put up a page like that for your modular brand while also knowing that at least half of the market doesn't even care as long as the thing works and costs as little as possible. FWIW selling clones of Plaits, Marbles, etc does not violate the CC license. There might be trademark infringements involved, separate issue.

GPL, like CC, is copyright based and can't really be applied to hardware. And GPL is actually not such an open license, it's a restrictive viral license, kind of like the "SA" clause of CC which comes with preconditions. The only thing that can really protect a circuit design is a patent and that's a very high threshold to reach. There's probably nothing in any synthesizer module these days that would qualify for a patent.

Something I was discussing with Emilie was publishing my files under CC0 instead of CC-BY-SA which is basically a waiver of all rights. This is the most permissive license that CC offers. It's like the MIT license for the firmware which says "do whatever you want with the code."

She wants to stick with CC-BY-SA and that's fine. But perhaps other designers would consider using CC0 and I might do that myself in the future. If you want credit, use CC-BY instead. CC-BY-SA is neither fully proprietary nor fully unencumbered and that's why there's this gray area where neither legalistic nor moralistic arguments can be definitively made. But that's fine, the overarching point of all this is that the originator's choice prevails and if you don't like the choice, don't use the source. Message received.
Yes Powder wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:57 am
So can we, as users also do a better job of calling out people making 1:1 clones en masse of modules still in production by designer, like Momo Modular?
I didn't want to name names but that was one of the people selling Microcell clones. They are no longer doing so. The risk of calling out any specific operator is that it's free marketing. When you're a modular noob looking at a brand new Rings for $359 or a brand new clone for 50% less, which one do you choose? "It's open source, right? Besides, I want the one with the black panel." The problem is not only that people are selling clones, it's that people are buying them. Back to the gray area that I mentioned above.

OK, I should get back to actually rebuilding the repo. I appreciate that some people can see that this was just a mistake and that I'm going to make amends. It's been difficult not to have a "scarcity" mindset these past few months.


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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Yes Powder » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:29 pm

sempervirent wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:21 pm
The risk of calling out any specific operator is that it's free marketing. When you're a modular noob looking at a brand new Rings for $359 or a brand new clone for 50% less, which one do you choose? "It's open source, right? Besides, I want the one with the black panel." The problem is not only that people are selling clones, it's that people are buying them. Back to the gray area that I mentioned above.
It's kind of the other side of the whole "just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right" argument except it seems to inspire a lot less rage in people.
Also: Fuck Momo!
Last edited by Yes Powder on Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Matt_L » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Hasn't been said yet so I'll say it: kudos for being willing to make changes. For me personally I know that it's hard when feeling under attack.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by PlateOfShrimp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:56 pm

Yeah, I'm really impressed with how this turned out.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by thetwlo » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:08 pm


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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by sempervirent » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:46 am

Is it safe to come out now :ninja:

I wanted to mention that the Supercell plugin for VCV Rack is now available:
https://library.vcvrack.com/Grayscale/Supercell

The Grayscale plugin is free, and so is VCV Rack: www.vcvrack.com

Here's a 45-minute overview from Omri Cohen which explores all 8 modes of the Superparasites firmware:


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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Shakespeare » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:50 am

As a Supercell owner, I say :tu:

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by sempervirent » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:16 pm

Thanks. I suppose Emilie agrees:



Spotted another VCV Rack demo which uses 8 instances of Supercell, each with one of the Superparasites modes active, pretty interesting idea. Maybe we'll implement automatic switching of the front panel graphics when a new DSP mode is selected, as this video does as a custom mod to the plugin.


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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Kattefjaes » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:36 pm

sempervirent wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:16 pm
Thanks. I suppose Emilie agrees:
A winner is you!

Repo back up, module on VCV and karma repaired, looks pretty good from here.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by paddymulcahy » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:51 am

happy to see peace restored!

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Electro Something » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:15 pm

I’m building my first rack to dip my toes in eurorack, and mainly using it as a tool to expand my Moog Matriarch.

Trying to decide if I grab a Supercell, or just go ahead and get individual reverb, advanced delay, and granular modules.

Thoughts for a newbie?

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Yes Powder » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:27 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:15 pm
Trying to decide if I grab a Supercell, or just go ahead and get individual reverb, advanced delay, and granular modules.
The Supercell will give you all those and a bag of chips, and will probably be cheaper than buying individual modules for each function.
It has some very handy internal random routing, which is essential for getting the most out of its granular modes.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Electro Something » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:20 pm

Yes Powder wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:27 pm
The Supercell will give you all those and a bag of chips, and will probably be cheaper than buying individual modules for each function.
It has some very handy internal random routing, which is essential for getting the most out of its granular modes.
For someone who is building his first rack, do you think it's worth the extra $165 and 18hp to get the Supercell over the Microcell?

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Yes Powder » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:39 pm

Electro Something wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:20 pm
For someone who is building his first rack, do you think it's worth the extra $165 and 18hp to get the Supercell over the Microcell?
Depends on how much space you got in your rack and how important the extra control and CV attenuation is to you, I guess. The larger controls and more spaced out jacks are nice, too. :ponytail:
If you can, I would. I'd say it's worth it just for the CV attenuators. The fact that you can use the attenuators to route an internal random LFO is a nice bonus.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Electro Something » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:49 pm

Yes Powder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:39 pm
Electro Something wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:20 pm
For someone who is building his first rack, do you think it's worth the extra $165 and 18hp to get the Supercell over the Microcell?
Depends on how much space you got in your rack and how important the extra control and CV attenuation is to you, I guess. The larger controls and more spaced out jacks are nice, too. :ponytail:
If you can, I would. I'd say it's worth it just for the CV attenuators. The fact that you can use the attenuators to route an internal random LFO is a nice bonus.
Well I have a Mantis case (2 x 104hp) and only used like 56hp so far (I'm using my rack to expand my Moog Matriarch). I feel like it's the kind of module I'm going to use a LOT, so I don't mind the large size (those micro knobs on my DFAM suck shit).

The Matriarch has a couple attenuators built-in, so I could just use those I guess. Dumb question - when you say that I can use the attenuators to route an internal random LFO...do you mean that I can patch it within itself? Or do you just mean that I can attenuate the LFO from another module?

Cheers for your feedback!

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by elob » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:48 am

sorry but i can't find if i can install supercell firmware on original clouds?

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by bawbag » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am

elob wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:48 am
sorry but i can't find if i can install supercell firmware on original clouds?
Not compatible, sorry. Different processor, memory size etc.

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by elob » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:12 am

bawbag wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:53 am
elob wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:48 am
sorry but i can't find if i can install supercell firmware on original clouds?
Not compatible, sorry. Different processor, memory size etc.
thankzzz!

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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by drikbreit » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:42 am

Hi, I just received the Supercell module. Can't find any info online or in manual how to correctly connect the cable to the module.
Can someone tell me how to do it correctly ? Thanks
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Re: Supercell: expanded version of Clouds + Superparasites firmware

Post by Yes Powder » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:47 am

The red stripe on your cable goes down with the stripe under the power header that says -12v red.

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