[SPLIT] Alternative Firmware(s) for Mutable Instruments Stages

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: luketeaford, Joe., lisa, Kent

Post Reply
qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:13 pm

jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:28 pm
After starting up it seems to be stuck still. The responsiveness I mentioned previously does not seem to apply anymore.

Here it is with a free running lfo on 1 and a envelope on 6. Scope on O_c is stuck on 6.67V (so I’m guessing +8V from Stages)
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0g7T3hZ ... zir2HnxX7g

Here it is running a sequencer, same 6.67V on every step.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0jLp8VP ... -s4aPUMOvw

I also tried the harmonic oscillator, same output. I’m gonna take a break. Hope this helps!
Oof, definitely never seen anything like that. It's really interesting that the slider LEDs are advancing normally with the sequence. For the bipolar LFO, was the slider blinking on and off or staying on the whole time? Slider LEDs updating correctly means the module is actually performing and completing segmentation processing as it uses the output of that to determine whether or not to light up. I'm not sure how it could be doing that but mess up writing out the CV...

Thanks for the videos!
jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:32 pm
I’ve moved it to another spot in my case, with another cable and it seems to hold out longer now :hmm:

Will let you know when weird behavior returns
Hmm, okay, fingers crossed.

If it does happen again, I could make you a custom firmware that would check to see if the output CV is being computed correctly (by displaying it on the type indicator LEDs, which appear to be updating correctly). This would help narrow down if its an IO problem or weird state problem at least.

User avatar
baleen
Common Wiggler
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 1:55 pm
Location: sf ca

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by baleen » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:24 pm

yeah thanks for the continued effort on this.

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:53 pm

jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:08 pm
My power is a Tiptop uZeus, seems to be holding up for 30 minutes now. Maybe the busboards are not evenly stressed? Might be my fault, but I haven’t seen this with original firmware yet.
Just checking in: did you end up running into any more problems? Definitely want to fix it if the firmware was indeed at fault!

jube
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:43 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:34 am

qiemem wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:53 pm
jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:08 pm
My power is a Tiptop uZeus, seems to be holding up for 30 minutes now. Maybe the busboards are not evenly stressed? Might be my fault, but I haven’t seen this with original firmware yet.
Just checking in: did you end up running into any more problems? Definitely want to fix it if the firmware was indeed at fault!
Haven’t had my modular on after posting last time. Let’s chalk it up to the power for the moment. I’ll let you know when it happens again!

User avatar
joeSeggiola
Common Wiggler
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:59 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by joeSeggiola » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 am

So great to see all this! Unfortunately it has been weeks I haven't touched my system, so I still have to try qiemem's work.
qiemem wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:09 pm
joe: Let me know if you're interested in any upstream PRs! Unlike your firmware, this modifies the core Stages mode, so thought a fork would be more appropriate.
Sure, no problem, a fork is perfectly fine. Maybe when I'll have the time to try it and decide on what I'll work next, I'll see if a merge makes sense or not. No idea when this will be, anyway :(

Did you used my flashing Bash script while developing, or do you have a hardware programmer for the Stages MCU?

It's nice to see you are experimenting with different UI approaches and collecting feedback here. Having so many features inevitably makes everything a bit too cluttered. It is crucial to search for the better compromise. I liked the fact you avoided another "layer" of long-presses in favour of cycling, then I saw you switched to the button+pot combination: it sounds even better, nice idea, can't wait to see how it feels.

Also, I can't wait to try the turing machine beta, since I never had something like that in my system. Since I haven't read about scales and quantizations, I guess you settled with 100% random CV values, and eventually the user will use a quantizer when used as oscillator input. Am I right?

User avatar
gelabs
Common Wiggler
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:27 pm
Location: Unifactor

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by gelabs » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm

Got another bug to report :
- select normal mode
- make one segment looping (blinking)
- switch to harmonic oscillator mode
- long press on the previously looping segment changes the sound (as expected) but does not change the blinking behavior.

I don't know if this was there already on joeSeggiola's firmware but it's the first time I encounter this.
The planet was, I realized, one of the spots before my eyes.
sc - bc - yt - mg

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:42 pm

joeSeggiola wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 am
qiemem wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:09 pm
joe: Let me know if you're interested in any upstream PRs! Unlike your firmware, this modifies the core Stages mode, so thought a fork would be more appropriate.
Sure, no problem, a fork is perfectly fine. Maybe when I'll have the time to try it and decide on what I'll work next, I'll see if a merge makes sense or not. No idea when this will be, anyway :(
Great to hear from you, joe! Sounds good!
joeSeggiola wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 am
Did you used my flashing Bash script while developing, or do you have a hardware programmer for the Stages MCU?
To be honest, I totally didn't notice your script. I've just been manually building in the vagrant vm and then playing it through an audio player... Definitely will have to try it!
joeSeggiola wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 am
It's nice to see you are experimenting with different UI approaches and collecting feedback here. Having so many features inevitably makes everything a bit too cluttered. It is crucial to search for the better compromise. I liked the fact you avoided another "layer" of long-presses in favour of cycling, then I saw you switched to the button+pot combination: it sounds even better, nice idea, can't wait to see how it feels.
Thanks! Ya, it's definitely been the biggest challenge. That, and figuring out how to display segment type + segment properties so that they don't interfere with each other. I absolutely do not want any hidden settings (beyond main mode).
joeSeggiola wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:54 am
Also, I can't wait to try the turing machine beta, since I never had something like that in my system. Since I haven't read about scales and quantizations, I guess you settled with 100% random CV values, and eventually the user will use a quantizer when used as oscillator input. Am I right?
It's been really fun! Correct about random CV values, which is the same as MTM's TM as well. If you don't have or want to use a quantizer, one trick you can do is feed a source wave (perhaps from a another LFO segment) into the gate of a bipolar LFO segment and then use a TM to control "clock" division/multiplication. The LFO will then output (sub)harmonics of the source. What's cool about this is you can just use it as a pseudo-quantizer or as a harmonized voice from your main melody! TMs are also great for non-pitch CV too. Also can make interesting, distortable voice on their own (strumming the prob slider up and down kinda sounds like strumming a distorted guitar...). Currently have a patch going where I feed a TM segment with a fast clock into Rings' audio in to excite the resonator in rhythmic, semi-repeating ways.

It's not in the current release as I've still been deciding on how it gets accessed. I want to keep the first mode feeling as much like core stages as possible. The polarity/freq range settings don't interfere with the normal workflow of stages, so I'm fine with those being in mode 1. Currently working on making mode 2 an "advanced mode" where you can access a bunch extra stuff that does change the normal workflow: TM segments, track & hold (moving it out of mode 1), using the "unused" segment types (looping non-gated hold and step). Also planning on incorporating some of the ideas from your awesome six env mode: making it so you can have in-envelope segments act as duplicates of the envelope (e.g. an AD envelope could be two identical AD envelopes rather than an AD with EOR out)... depending on how hard it is to implement. Anyway, the turing-machine branch is up to date with the latest release I believe if you do want to try it with the new UI.

Thank you so much for the original firmware! Really opened up Stages for me! Ouroboros with switched controls was just brilliant... so simple, but absolutely lovely results. Not to mention the six env mode!

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:23 pm

gelabs wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm
Got another bug to report :
- select normal mode
- make one segment looping (blinking)
- switch to harmonic oscillator mode
- long press on the previously looping segment changes the sound (as expected) but does not change the blinking behavior.

I don't know if this was there already on joeSeggiola's firmware but it's the first time I encounter this.
Good catch! Thanks! Looks like it's new with this firmware (the LFO brightness pattern overwrites the Ouroboros one because I forgot to check which mode the module is in in the LED code). The fix will be in the next release (probably next week).

jube
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:43 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 am

Small update: been playing some more and haven’t run into the problem again. Hooked up another digital module (Prism) in the spot that was problematic for the stages, but haven’t run into trouble either.

I do have some remarks regarding the pot twist selection method. When I have a snappy envelope that I want to change from “retrigger after completion” to “retrigger immediately” I’m not sure how to do that without having an envelope (at least momentarily) that is not snappy at all since I’m on the other side of the pot to select that mode.

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:11 am

jube wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 am
Small update: been playing some more and haven’t run into the problem again. Hooked up another digital module (Prism) in the spot that was problematic for the stages, but haven’t run into trouble either.
Good to hear! Definitely let me know if you run into it again.
jube wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 am
I do have some remarks regarding the pot twist selection method. When I have a snappy envelope that I want to change from “retrigger after completion” to “retrigger immediately” I’m not sure how to do that without having an envelope (at least momentarily) that is not snappy at all since I’m on the other side of the pot to select that mode.
Thanks for the feedback! This is a downside for sure to the pot turning method (that, and requiring two hands). Not as big of a deal with frequency range since you're changing the frequency anyway when you want to do that.

One possibility would be to have it just toggle if it moves at all. Then you could move it to trigger the toggle, and, while keeping the button down, move it back. Generally, I prefer controls that set the state of something directly rather than toggle state, but could be worth it in this case. There's still the downside that the shape will probably change to some degree, so you may lose those "just right" curves. What do you think? Any other ideas?

jube
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:43 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:59 pm

qiemem wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:11 am
jube wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 am
Small update: been playing some more and haven’t run into the problem again. Hooked up another digital module (Prism) in the spot that was problematic for the stages, but haven’t run into trouble either.
Good to hear! Definitely let me know if you run into it again.
jube wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:47 am
I do have some remarks regarding the pot twist selection method. When I have a snappy envelope that I want to change from “retrigger after completion” to “retrigger immediately” I’m not sure how to do that without having an envelope (at least momentarily) that is not snappy at all since I’m on the other side of the pot to select that mode.
Thanks for the feedback! This is a downside for sure to the pot turning method (that, and requiring two hands). Not as big of a deal with frequency range since you're changing the frequency anyway when you want to do that.

One possibility would be to have it just toggle if it moves at all. Then you could move it to trigger the toggle, and, while keeping the button down, move it back. Generally, I prefer controls that set the state of something directly rather than toggle state, but could be worth it in this case. There's still the downside that the shape will probably change to some degree, so you may lose those "just right" curves. What do you think? Any other ideas?
Switching after putting the pot back to its original position and then letting go of the button sounds like a solution. My envelopes are not that tightly set that I would mind losing a “just right” setting.

Switching between the two is just too interesting an effect!

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2014
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:09 pm

Am I crazy or is bipolar for LFOs right and unipolar is left? The manual says the opposite but the UI and sound say otherwise.
THUMPR BC SC

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:56 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:09 pm
Am I crazy or is bipolar for LFOs right and unipolar is left? The manual says the opposite but the UI and sound say otherwise.
:doh: you're absolutely right, bipolar is right. Thanks! In my defense, my post here has it right... Though that's only because someone corrected me :deadbanana:

The fact that I can't keep it straight it in the manual is probably further evidence it should change anyway. As discussed above, I think I'll make it a toggle; then you won't have to worry about which is which!

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:50 pm

jube wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:59 pm
Switching after putting the pot back to its original position and then letting go of the button sounds like a solution. My envelopes are not that tightly set that I would mind losing a “just right” setting.

Switching between the two is just too interesting an effect!
Perfect, I'll put that into the next release. Thanks again for the feedback!

Also, glad you're enjoying the re-trigger control!

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:50 pm

Dup post (is there a way to delete posts in this forum?)

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2014
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:24 pm

qiemem wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:56 pm
hawkfuzz wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:09 pm
Am I crazy or is bipolar for LFOs right and unipolar is left? The manual says the opposite but the UI and sound say otherwise.
:doh: you're absolutely right, bipolar is right. Thanks! In my defense, my post here has it right... Though that's only because someone corrected me :deadbanana:

The fact that I can't keep it straight it in the manual is probably further evidence it should change anyway. As discussed above, I think I'll make it a toggle; then you won't have to worry about which is which!
I actually think it’s smart the way it is but do you.
THUMPR BC SC

qiemem
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm

Just put up a new release! In addition to control over segment polarity, LFO frequency range, etc., this release has the following changes:
  • Add advanced mode with random segments (uniform random, Turing Machine, and logistic map) and T&H (T&H moved from segment generator mode)
  • Change polarity/re-trigger control to toggle so that you can change polarity/re-trigger behavior without affecting shape/time. Thanks to jube for the idea.
  • Fix an issue where LFO range selection LED brightness would override Ouroboros LED brightness. Thanks to gelabs for catching this!
  • Fix an issue where segments set to bipolar step or hold in normal mode would could contribute negative CV in other modes
Check it out here (also attached): https://github.com/qiemem/eurorack/releases/latest

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! Also, let me know if you've got any good "Stages" puns... I'd like to give this thing an actual name instead of just calling it "the bipolar multi-mode fork". To be honest, the only reason these releases are still "beta" is because I need a name...

IMPORTANT: Installation will clear the module settings if coming from a different firmware or the previous version. Right after updating, Stages may continuously cycle between green, orange, and red LEDs. Turning the module off and on again should restore functionality. This happens because this fork expands the amount of data stored for each segment, so will be incompatible with the settings stored from a different firmware. If you encounter problems, please let me know, either in a GitHub issue or here.

IMPORTANT WHEN INSTALLING A DIFFERENT FIRMWARE: If you install a different firmware after this one, make sure that no segments are on the random segment type, as your module could continuously restart after installation if you a random segment was present. If this does happen, don't panic: just re-install this firmware, go and change the random segments to something else, and try again.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
gelabs
Common Wiggler
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:27 pm
Location: Unifactor

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by gelabs » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:09 pm

:tu:
The planet was, I realized, one of the spots before my eyes.
sc - bc - yt - mg

User avatar
Umcorps
Will patch for food
Posts: 2446
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Currently unrecognisable

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by Umcorps » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:04 am

qiemem wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! Also, let me know if you've got any good "Stages" puns... I'd like to give this thing an actual name instead of just calling it "the bipolar multi-mode fork". To be honest, the only reason these releases are still "beta" is because I need a name...

Le Monde


Because all the worlds a stage.....


[Edited for misgendering. My French is crap}
Last edited by Umcorps on Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Carrousel
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:48 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by Carrousel » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:37 am

Umcorps wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:04 am
qiemem wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! Also, let me know if you've got any good "Stages" puns... I'd like to give this thing an actual name instead of just calling it "the bipolar multi-mode fork". To be honest, the only reason these releases are still "beta" is because I need a name...

La Monde



Because all the worlds a stage.....
I really like this. I personally would go a step (stage?) further and call it ‘Tout Le Monde’ which literally means ‘all the world’ (...is a stage) but translates to ‘everyone’.
Formerly 'Raven_Martin' on Muffwiggler
'And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music' - Nietzsche

https://carrouselmusic.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/carrousel_uk

User avatar
joeSeggiola
Common Wiggler
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:59 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by joeSeggiola » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:06 am

qiemem wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm
Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! Also, let me know if you've got any good "Stages" puns... I'd like to give this thing an actual name instead of just calling it "the bipolar multi-mode fork".
Sagest (definition), because this is a "profoundly wise" firmware, and it's an anagram of Stages :mrgreen:

User avatar
recliq
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:53 am
Location: Germany

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by recliq » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:04 am

qiemem wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:22 pm
Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! Also, let me know if you've got any good "Stages" puns... I'd like to give this thing an actual name instead of just calling it "the bipolar multi-mode fork". To be honest, the only reason these releases are still "beta" is because I need a name...
What about keeping the tradition of calling alternative MI firmwares after games in Drowning by Numbers., eg. Dawn Card Castles or Flights of Fancy...

User avatar
Southfork
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by Southfork » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:54 am

Amazing work qiemem Real game changer for stages, made so many of my other cv sources obsolete :tu:

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2014
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by hawkfuzz » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:47 pm

Junctures would be a good name
THUMPR BC SC

User avatar
Chopper
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:17 am
Location: London

Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by Chopper » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:23 pm

Quick question: what are the parameters for the new Turing Machine mode? And is the output quantised? Thanks!

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”