THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

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Post by MotoModular » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:46 pm

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Last edited by MotoModular on Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:11 am

Any updates :o ?

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by msboude » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:00 pm

This is a fun little gag.. all you have to do is set up your camera, take a video of a cassette playing while not showing the prototype and play some pre-recorded warbled music with some delay.. oh, it sounds so analogue LOL.

the video of the 4060 counter/divider ic chip outputting to the LEDs, stepping through and sync'd with the modular was a neat trick.. haha. Making progress! haha..

But seriously.. this thing looks cool, hope you all get what you want.. I'm just joking! :guinness:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:02 pm

Apologies for the lack of posts/updates lately. By no means neglectful, only pushing hard through the holiday spell which naturally has other demands and obstacles on its own.
Very intensive motor control circuit testing and adjustment going on lately. The most sensitive beast of the whole project and the thing that perhaps took the longest. This lately taking a lot of time, on top of pushing through microcontroller and related small circuit adjustments which has been in the hands of one of you buyers and who has been doing great work. Thank you.
This is really what we're down to and about to lump the whole deal onto boards. It's exciting.
I posted something on a recent Friday update since the last one but it instantly got wiped like an hour later by the coincidental Muffs website overhaul. Contacted mods but didn't hear back. No worries though mods! Must be a lot of catchup going on.
Anyways, i had posted an image that is the final TE-2's recording EQ curves measured/plotted and on full display per tape type. I had described a bit about how good it is to have high headroom in this situation, since the EQ boost hitting tape, although dramatically tapered downstream from this and before the heads, does need to still pass through circuit stages at full (loud) volume which has normal opamp rail swings that limits things. The TE-2 long ago was given boosted pricey 15/15 rails instead of 12/12 which is standard for eurorack. This is one of the reasons. The TE-1 and the old cassette units have about 50% of the headroom by design and due to power limitations modifiable. For this reason, the TE-2 has a much more open sound. It's more natural as it is not mangled in the high frequencies before it even gets recorded. That's not to say you didn't have high frequencies in those things, it just wasn't natural. Now we're sending something in that is still in proper form. Takes the pinch away.
The TE-2's huge rails expose the sound of the actual cassette tape formulation too, since when we hit it hard AND when we turn up the feedback for trashy oscillations, we are not really hitting any sort of limits in the circuit other than the actual tape. So in summary, the 15/15 headroom not only allows transparently passing things like boosted/EQ'd signal about to hit tape, it also removes any interference from us hearing/observing tape sounds. We're not sitting inside of an old confined cassette player sound. It's just tape. There's also the dramatically lower noise floor which further exposes the tape/music. Listening to saturated oscillating feedback in the TE-2 vs TE-1 is like having a higher resolution picture of something. And the general upgrade in quality of design/parts throughout has given us a true sub frequency performance previously not heard. I'm not going to go so far as to say it hasn't been heard on cassette, but it definitely is a big leap from before here. There are a multitude of reasons for this. The LM4562's in the whole tape section certainly help all of this EQ stuff.
Anyways's here's the graph of recorded EQ curves. It clearly displays the principal of a lot of tape recording, which is that we send in things rather bright and then reproduce things darker upon playback and/or the formulation does this second step for us.

Probably going to just skip tomorrow Friday update and call todays post the post. Trying to hit a major step with refinements of motor stuff here. This is all coming together now.

Thanks

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by gentle_attack » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:04 pm

bkbirge wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:43 pm
It would be nice to hear some more demos of the unit as it's hitting the home stretch.
:picard:

The home stretch of what? LOL.
MotoModular wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:03 pm
Actually, we’re nearly set up to make more. Hoping this coming week some time, but it could be early following week. Once the set up is in place, it will be possible to generate demos regularly again as before and more frequently. First demos will start off just for buyers in the updates, then will return to the social media format at some point.


MotoModular wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:02 pm
Apologies for the lack of posts/updates lately. By no means neglectful, only pushing hard through the holiday spell which naturally has other demands and obstacles on its own
It is neglectful/ disrespectful though- how many times have you said you're going to post new videos this week, or maybe next week. Then radio silence for month(s), and then it's like you don't even remember that you're 3-4 weeks overdue on the video/audio you promised, and you just move on to the next batch of pseudo-technical / reflections on life / wall of text posts. I'm sure promises of audio demos being just around the corner (again) will be posted in a couple weeks, you can pretty much set your clock to it (and bet against any audio/ video actually being posted).


I still wish the best for this project but it makes me really glad I didn't buy in nearly 2 years ago. It is overwhelmingly clear that this isn't even close to a single prototype being done (hence no demos) and several years away from any orders actually being filled.


You're WAY behind schedule which happens since this is a mad scientist kind of project... but what's troubling is that you keep saying you're going to do a bunch of stuff that not only you don't do, but aren't even recognizing that you never did, and then it's just recycled pseduo tech speak and a picture now and then, with the promise of demos (soon!). There's now this weird cover of "well this update is just for paying customers" which is kind of funny since I'm sure if there was anything meaningful being sent out, it would be reposted in this thread, I'm not holding my breath on that one
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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by johnnie red » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:49 pm

gentle_attack wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:04 pm
It is neglectful/ disrespectful though- how many times have you said you're going to post new videos this week, or maybe next week. Then radio silence for month(s), and then it's like you don't even remember that you're 3-4 weeks overdue on the video/audio you promised... I'm sure promises of audio demos being just around the corner (again) will be posted in a couple weeks, you can pretty much set your clock to it
I get the frustration but has Jim really promised demos that frequently? He certainly did a few weeks ago but otherwise I don’t recall him ever suggesting demos would be coming soon. His recent mention of demos was actually the first time that I recall in like forever so I’m actually hopeful sometime in the near future there really will be some new stuff to listen to.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by msboude » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:54 pm

Think of how much time this would take a team to develop.. there's a lot of shit that goes into designing something like this. I designed a flip-flop module and a power supply... I thought I was going to lose my mind. This dude has some pressure on him too..

You'd have to have a job as well.. Otherwise you would have funded it yourself and brought it for purchase once it was done. Gotta have a life too..

Where did he find all those marantz tape decks to hack up.. haha, I keep looking at the pic trying to see if it was photoshopped or used a mirror. Haha..

This feels like a big joke, but I'm sure it's real.. I want to believe. Ha

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by citizensmurf » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:10 am

I haven't used the Foe feature of this forum until today, but if it means I don't have to read any more pedantic rants then its probably a good thing.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Fayette » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:54 am

I find it very strange that a lot of these very angry complaints are coming from people who haven’t even ordered one.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by msboude » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 am

Fayette wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:54 am
I find it very strange that a lot of these very angry complaints are coming from people who haven’t even ordered one.
You don't insult your barber while he is cutting your hair.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by johnnie red » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:53 pm

msboude wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 am
Fayette wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:54 am
I find it very strange that a lot of these very angry complaints are coming from people who haven’t even ordered one.
You don't insult your barber while he is cutting your hair.
That’s true. Probably shouldn’t make fun of someone else’s haircut either.

Anyways I think it was back in April of 2018 when I put in my preorder. It’s taken longer than I hoped but I always knew this particular project could take a while.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:54 pm

Hello,
It's time to shift gears.
TE-2.Validations

"Validation," the process of fully performance testing/confirming the schematic, has involved building the entire TE-2 on breadboards. It is a massive schematic, so this took a lot of work over a few moons. It also corrected an assortment of schematic issues. This also is what allows us to hook up the micro controller and fully musically test it without depending on the pcb timing/between. It also allows us to constantly have it active and rolling so that during any waiting phases for third party processes, make a tweak and submit it with little effort/hangups.
We've saved a tremendous lot of future time by doing this all, since surely it has avoided a multitude of subtle performance changes down the stretch a bit and forced them to happen already, all with the singular goal of measuring 10000 times and cutting just a few. Breadboarding the whole thing is a bit overkill, but I'm not willing to take risks in any of this, and it also brought all those benefits.

This sample is here to demonstrate a moderate amount of self feedback/oscillation, and the character of tape overload that builds up. This is a completely neutral setup, with a good input level and no LPF/HPF/RES filtering. Just sending in a sequence and listening while the arpeggiation notes and self oscillation tones proceed on their own accord.
Good speakers/headphones are recommended, otherwise you'll miss the low end. Also, it seems a couple a loud low frequency moments actually ended up very slightly clipping the mixer it was passing through when being recorded.

I don't know much about Soundcloud's quality of conversion, but I'll always make sure the 44.1k 24Bit files are downloadable with each sound that gets posted.

Last edited by MotoModular on Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Needles » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:21 pm

:yay: :yay: :yay:

That sounds very, very lovely.
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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by bkbirge » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:46 pm

Now that sounds like something worth waiting for. More demos please, I'd like to hear the original signal panned on one side with the delayed signal on the other.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by Thorsday » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:55 am

MotoModular wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:54 pm
...of measuring 10000 times and cutting just a few. Breadboarding the whole thing is a bit overkill, but I'm not willing to take risks in any of this, and it also brought all those benefits...
You know what is best, Jim. Thank you for everything.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:11 pm




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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by bkbirge » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:57 pm

Beautiful tones!

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:23 pm


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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:53 pm

Last edited by MotoModular on Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by slumberjack » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm

:animal:
> WTB ADDAC502 <

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by johnnie red » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:35 pm

Whoa. :eek:

I have a bunch of delays but none of them sound quite like that. :hyper: :hail:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by msboude » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:52 pm

Sounds great man! Nice work!

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by mekohler » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:41 pm

Any clips with a short tape loop / sound on sound? :mrgreen:

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:26 am

Will be steadily moving through a lot of applications so don't worry you'll get to hear all the features. There's a lot to cover.

I've been thinking of opening up an invitation to send in any particular wav/aiff clips of solo/dry sounds you'd like to hear put through the TE-2. Feel free to reach out via messages here if you have something or a small assortment of things. Minimal sounding is best. If something makes it in, you'll get a comment tag/acknowledgement in the Soundcloud track itself.

Starting to put the dry sound exposed at the end of each demo. #005 has it, and in theory they all should going forward. But to catch up on the first four.. #001 is just steady arpeggiating notes sent in, #002 is sporadic notes or groups of notes that are clearly distinguishable already, #003 is a quicker moving arpeggiation, and #004 is steady notes of resonating lpf of a synth and i'm fussing live with the synth's lpf cutoff knob. In all cases, the notes are staccato, and in all but #002 the notes play in a simple steady rhythm so in those demos the TE-2 is making all of the complex rhythms and sustains. #004's rhythmic shifts are making themselves due to dialing in a small amount of Modulation at a slow rate. It's a sine wave gradually shifting the motor's Time back and forth just enough to get from one musical note duration to another and it spans the in between.

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Re: THE SPACE CASE TE-2 - Eurorack / Standalone Echo + Tape Unit

Post by MotoModular » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:23 am

So this self oscillation is mostly from the tape echo feedback itself, but this kind of tonal control of echoes is achieved by adding a good bit of LPF resonance to assist the self oscillation to focus on a frequency range. The low pass filter is within the tape feedback path. We turn the LPF knob, which is the only knob being moved here. Normally on tape echoes we need to alter and ride the time/delay to get tone sweeps like this. We can do those too, and blend them as well.

Also this track has some cassette subs down there. It reveals the new circuit performance vs the old stuff.


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