Announcing Maze: Sequential attenuverting router and mixer.

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LiveStock Electronics
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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:08 am

pugix
Voltages can be anything you want, range is -5V to +5V but the SLCT input is overvoltage protected. Sequencing only works on current bank. These are the sequencing methods as mentioned in the manual:

- Continuous : hook up a sequencer, LFO or envelope generator. You can attenuvert and add dc offset with Maze.
- Trigger : standard sequencer for trigger or gate. You can set sequence length, direction and start with Maze. You can also reset or jump to a preset by pressing a matrix button.
- Random : same as trigger. But trigger sets a random preset. You can set random minimum and maximum and again pressing a matrix button will jump to preset.
- Euclidean : same as trigger. But sequence is based around setting a length and a deviation. So, by setting the length to 10 and the deviation to 5 you will have presets 0,2,4,6,8,10 in your sequence. Pressing a matrix button will shift the sequence.

In this mode if you set the length to 0, the sequence will count forever with within 16 steps, the deviation determines the number of presets that will be skipped on each trigger. This is great for creating semi-random sequences.

This info will be added to the final manual.

Looks like a great module for live performances for people with good memories.


Not exactly sure if you mean the interface, routings or both. But the module seems more difficult than it is, as most of it pretty much speaks for itself once you get into it. Besides that I've added some things like Maze telling you in "Settings Mode" what you are changing, so no need to memorise that stuff. Like any other module with a bit of menu you will need to spend some time getting to know it. But of course I agree it may require more thinking than the 4ms matrix.

Like LowOver says here it depends on what you want to do with it. The 4ms matrix may be better for some and Maze for others.
Hope there will be a DivKid video on this!

There will be :)

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Post by s.l.o.w » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:46 am

Very interesting!

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Post by starthief » Thu May 10, 2018 8:22 am

Just to make sure I'm clear on this: the CV values themselves don't morph, but select a specific save, and the morph happens over time?

So for instance, if save 1 is at 0V, and save 2 is at 1V, a CV value of 0.5V is still save 1 rather than interpolated halfway between the two saves?


Also, am I confusing things with another module or is there a way to "mute" an entire save to remove it from a sequence?


Thanks :)

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 am

starthief
Yes, you can control the saves with CV and adjust the speed at which all the routing values morph from one to the other.

Imagine putting two LFO's in Maze. You create two saves: one with the first LFO on, one with the second LFO on. You set a morphing speed. Now every time you change a save it will morph from one LFO to the other.

So it always goes to the next save, unless you select a new save before it reaches it ;)

Yeah, muting saves was possible but I took it out, because it felt like overcomplicating things. If I see that people want this function back, I will consider it in an update.

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Post by starthief » Mon May 14, 2018 12:01 pm

Cool, thanks :guinness:


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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Wed May 30, 2018 8:04 am

Just uploaded the walkthrough video for Maze. Hope you like it!

The basics:
[video][/video]

Preview/copy mode:
[video][/video]

Sequencing:
[video][/video]

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Post by gcheliotis » Wed May 30, 2018 3:32 pm

Great videos!!! Looking forward to getting my hands on one, I think it's my favorite matrix router design in euro yet! You previously said it'd ship out May - did that slip? Got a new ETA?

Also, I'm a little worried about the legibility of the screen - it doesn't seem too bright in your videos. I do love the little animations though :yay:

peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Thu May 31, 2018 3:06 am

So how does morphing time interact with the cv/gate input?
Does it still function or does it get bypassed?

Overall parts of the functionality here reminds me of pattrstorage in max, which is probably one of the few modules i use in every patch.

And yes any new info on when this would be available would be very useful :)

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Thu May 31, 2018 3:46 am

gcheliotis
Thanks, happy to hear you like the design and the video's! Yep, May was going to happen until: my assembly company made a huge mistake by assembling some random brand for the leds without my knowledge. So of course they did not work and I had to ship it back, they are fixing it as we speak. This is the second time they make a mistake so I am looking into how I will pursue this in the future. As for the ETA: unfortunately fixing it takes time, hoping I will be shipping in three weeks from now.

I understand your worries on screen legibility from the video's. But imagine a big wall of leds on top for lighting, no module can stand up to that. :despair: Could not find a right way of having nice light on the module without compromising on the screen a bit (at least with my setup). In this video you can see how it looks in normal lighting conditions. [video][/video]

peripatitis
Morphing activates whenever a preset changes, so it does not matter if it's via cv or by hand.
reminds me of pattrstorage in max
Yeah, I have used MAX MSP a lot, most of the module ideas come from patches and prototypes I made in MAX. Definitely some pattrstorage inspired functions in Maze.

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Post by gcheliotis » Thu May 31, 2018 7:28 am

Thanks, happy to hear you like the design and the video's! Yep, May was going to happen until: my assembly company made a huge mistake by assembling some random brand for the leds without my knowledge. So of course they did not work and I had to ship it back, they are fixing it as we speak. This is the second time they make a mistake so I am looking into how I will pursue this in the future. As for the ETA: unfortunately fixing it takes time, hoping I will be shipping in three weeks from now.

I understand your worries on screen legibility from the video's. But imagine a big wall of leds on top for lighting, no module can stand up to that. seriously, i just don't get it Could not find a right way of having nice light on the module without compromising on the screen a bit (at least with my setup). In this video you can see how it looks in normal lighting conditions.
The last video from superbooth was enough to assuage any concerns I had about LED brightness, thanks! Adjustable brightness for all LEDs is probably what most wigglers would prefer, but not sure you can support that. Speaking of LEDs, you will do well to test and double test their suitability and quality before sending modules out. Faulty LEDs are relatively common in modules that use lots of them and a reason for an otherwise perfectly working module to be sent back, resulting in dissatisfaction and extra work on both sides. Everyone will be happy to wait a little longer, if it helps you deliver a working product.

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:27 am

gcheliotis
For adjustable brightness I would only add a decrease of brightness as the power consumption increases rapidly. I have measured 500mA @ 12V at most so I prefer not go down that route and keep it steady at 200mA which already gives some headroom.

I would not worry about quality to much, in my modules I only use components by leading brands (that's why I don't want my assembly company to use random components). The leds are a standard used in the DIY scene, meaning they are intensely used by companies such as Sparkfun and Adafruit. I have been working on this module for 2 years now, so I guess I have tested them enough.

Besides that all my modules are guaranteed to be tested and working before they leave my workshop. :tu:

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Post by whyfarer » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:01 pm

Maze looks awesome (as do many of your modules) - great utility. Have you considered offering DIY options?

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Post by hemeroscopium » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:17 am

Damn; any chance for 10v/-10v range?

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:39 am

whyfarer
Thanks! They actually started out with DIY in mind. But I went away from it, as I had to make a choice between making it DIY friendly or making the modules the best I can. However I am considering making a DIY line at some point.

erenod
For inputs: no, outputs: yes. The max input voltage is around 5.5V, but when you mix let's say two +5V, you can get a +10V output.

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:43 am

Hey Everybody
Happy to announce that Maze is now shipping!
Of course you can find more info and dealers @ www.livestockelectronics.com

Cheers,
Daniel

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Post by starthief » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:27 pm

My Maze just arrived today (with a nifty coffee mug too). It's a seriously cool piece of gear :)

Learning how to use it went much quicker than I expected -- I don't think I'm going to have to refer to the manual or a cheat sheet at all. Maybe for settings, but probably not.

The one slightly confusing bit is when you're in routing mode, there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate which routing(s) you have selected -- you have to turn the encoder and see what changed. It'd be helpful if the selected routings blinked quickly, or the non-selected routings dimmed, or something like that.

Also I guess the SLCT input triggers a change on the falling edge, rather than the rising edge. So if you want to keep things in sync and not have it feel like it's got some latency issues, you need to use fast triggers.

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Post by lisa » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:32 pm

How does it compare to the WMD SSM?
Somewhat unorthodox electro on my old trusty Monomachine. :boba:


Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMx44Gnixzw

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Post by starthief » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:33 pm

I don't have an SSM to compare it to, in terms of ease of use etc.

In theory at least, SSM has a few extras -- the comparators, DAC, and the expander stuff -- but Maze otherwise covers its functionality and goes beyond. Each routing is an atteunverter rather than a binary on/off connection, and it'll smoothly morph between states.

For instance: you can set up Maze as a 4-channel 16-step CV sequencer, by routing a steady voltage to the four outputs. In practice it might be a bit more awkward than working with a dedicated sequencer, but it's doable. (Especially using continuous addressing mode and a manual CV source to select the steps, so you don't have to press Func several times to switch steps.)

Right now I've got it smoothly crossfading between four different oscillators that are playing the same sequence, which is trivial for Maze. (I'm also playing with my new Red Panda Tensor, so not entirely concentrating on Maze right now :D)

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:03 am

starthief
Awesome! Glad you like it, the coffee mug is just a little thank you for pre-ordering ;) Great you don't need the manual so far. I have tried to make Maze as intuitive as possible.
there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate which routing(s) you have selected
Yeah this is something with no solution so far; I tried blinking but this gets really unclear when you set your channels to attenuation and are sequencing. I tried blinking with different colours but this was even worse.
non-selected routings dimmed
I think this is the solution I was looking for, I'm going to try how it is in practice and add it to the upcoming update if successful!
a change on the falling edge
The idea for this is so you can play around with the pulse widths and add delay to the SLCT input, which is really useful. But I can understand this can be confusing in some cases. Maybe you should be able to add delay in the settings? However you will loose some playability. :hmm: Could add this in an expander...

lisa
Simply put Maze could be viewed as combining the SSM and 4ms VCA matrix. But of course as starthief states there are some differences. The focus of Maze lies on the combination of sequencing, attenuating, inverting and morphing. I was not interested in ON/OFF routings but all the good stuff in between. So being able to set different routing gains and inversions. And then morph between routing settings with a push of a button, or via automation.

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Post by MvK » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:55 am

dont know if thats doable, but might it be nice to also be able to set an offset for every possible connection in the routing and save that with the preset? I can think of many uses for that.

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:10 am

MvK
Well you can take a stable voltage, insert it into one of the inputs and increase the gain of the stable voltage. This will add DC offset to the entire output mix. But I understand you'd like to do this for each routing? These DC offsets would cancel each other out in the mix. Could you give me an example of how you would use this?

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Post by MvK » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:45 am

I had the idea while thinking about some kind of "preset" functionality.

Example:

Let's say you have a filter that you want to utilize in 2 different ways (routings) during a performance. Its 3 inputs ( Audio in, CV-cutoff, CV resonance) are connected to 3 outs of the maze. Mazes inputs are: Audio source 1 & 2 (routed to filter input), Envelope and lfo. Using different DC-offsets per preset would give you the ability to "remote-control" the filter as a whole also with initial settings of cutoff and resonance without having to touch the filter. That way you could dial in very precise recallable "settings" for the filter. Although that only makes sense for CV-connections. And there only for the outputs.

But as a workaround as you suggested it would also make sense to use a constant voltage for one input of the maze.

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Post by LiveStock Electronics » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:12 am

MvK
What you are describing is pretty similar to another module I am working on called "Ellis" (it is still unannounced and I prefer not to give any details yet). However it will be a great companion to Maze, but will work as a standalone module too. More info will follow later this year.

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Post by lisa » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:32 am

starthief and LiveStock Electronics, thanks for explaining! :)
Somewhat unorthodox electro on my old trusty Monomachine. :boba:


Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMx44Gnixzw

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