Why no Eurorack piano module?

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Dragonaut
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Post by Dragonaut » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:12 pm

Kind of a backasswards way of playing piano if you ask me.
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:12 pm

Dragonaut wrote:Kind of a backasswards way of playing piano if you ask me.
Not at all. It's the best way possible.
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Dragonaut
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Post by Dragonaut » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:19 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Dragonaut wrote:Kind of a backasswards way of playing piano if you ask me.
Not at all. It's the best way possible.
I mean even if you love sequencing in eurorack wouldn't you prefer to port (heh, port) your melody to an actual piano after writing it? Here, I'll add one of these this time: :grin:
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Post by brandonlogic » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:48 pm

Dragonaut wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Dragonaut wrote:Kind of a backasswards way of playing piano if you ask me.
Not at all. It's the best way possible.
I mean even if you love sequencing in eurorack wouldn't you prefer to port (heh, port) your melody to an actual piano after writing it? Here, I'll add one of these this time: :grin:
The appeal to having something like a piano physical modeling module sounds cool to me. obviously the point of something like this in modular would not be to try to recreate anything traditional you would actually do wit a piano.

It could be something very similar to mutable elements. and exciter section that would let you hit the piano strings with different materials, standard hammer, metal hammer, glock mallet, bow, etc that could be modulated, warping between sounds with cv. you could modulate how hard the objects hit the strings/keys. you could modulate the size/material of the piano itself, effecting timber and resonation. detune modulation/quantization. it could be poly in a way that rings is, overlapping tails of notes. you could even have some kind of emulation of "prepared paino" laying objects inside the piano on top of the stings, and modulate that, tons of possibilities there.

infinite sustain (drone) freeze

Image

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Dragonaut wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Dragonaut wrote:Kind of a backasswards way of playing piano if you ask me.
Not at all. It's the best way possible.
I mean even if you love sequencing in eurorack wouldn't you prefer to port (heh, port) your melody to an actual piano after writing it? Here, I'll add one of these this time: :grin:
Not necessarily. One of the most interesting thing I've been doing is CV controlling the Attack of the key hit which changes the sound completely. This is impossible to do on a real piano; you can't fade in the sound.

Especially with physical modeling, pushing the calculations to their limits wields very interesting results.
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Azarius
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Post by Azarius » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:28 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote: Not necessarily. One of the most interesting thing I've been doing is CV controlling the Attack of the key hit which changes the sound completely. This is impossible to do on a real piano; you can't fade in the sound.
True with a real piano, but with a sample library being performed on a controller or even a dedicated keyboard (like the Montage, for example) you could use a volume pedal to fade in and out at any time before, during or after the initial key hit. Not exactly the same, I know, and maybe not exactly what you had in mind but there are options. Also most quality sample libraries have user-adjustable parameters for attack, decay, etc. that you can also map to controllers.

Personally, when I play piano I love the feel of playing the weighted action keys. The expressiveness and dynamics in a performance is what adds so much life and emotion. I'm not sure you'd get the same effect in a module, or at least as easily as existing methods. Of course, everyone is different and wants something different from their piano parts.

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Post by williamjturkel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:38 pm

I have been playing Pianoteq with a Linnstrument but I only have two very untrained hands. So thinking of getting a Polyend Poly, it occurred to me that I also wanted a Pianoteq module to go with it.

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Post by brandonlogic » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Azarius wrote:I'm not sure you'd get the same effect in a module, or at least as easily as existing methods.
you wouldnt, and that would be the point of the module. to offer something different. like i explained in my post above

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Post by Dragonaut » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:52 pm

I kinda agree with what you guys are saying about the physical modeling potential of a module. I thought the percussive modeling stuff in Plaits yields some really interesting sounds that I would be hard pressed to get from real instruments that sound real at the same time. Piano could be an interesting starting point.
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Post by Funky40 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:17 pm

Azarius wrote: Personally, when I play piano I love the feel of playing the weighted action keys. The expressiveness and dynamics in a performance is what adds so much life and emotion.
I totally agree
Azarius wrote: I'm not sure you'd get the same effect in a module, or at least as easily as existing methods. .
Though, it would be something totally different. ;)
i for my one have pianoteq pro and have reprogrammed some Notes, mainly in the bass.
sounds AWESOME ! gives the piano a totally different feel.
i often play with the Bassnotes in a style comparable to how a Sequenzer would play. ( mono or duophonic )

in fact, i had the idea respectivly lusting for a Pianoteq module allready a year ago.
just one thing: i couldn´t get good results with Pianoteq when i jammed with parameters live while playing. So to my experinece is pianoteq itself right now not able to modulate parameters in realtime. (and much likely not made to do so )

personally, not interested in anything other than Pianoteq in regards to Piano.
But hey, there is also the Lounge Lizard ;) . Thats AAS right ? (like plonks) / alternate FW ? :hyper: :love:

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Azarius
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Post by Azarius » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:41 pm

brandonlogic wrote: you wouldnt, and that would be the point of the module. to offer something different. like i explained in my post above
Fair enough. I understand the concept now. I can see the value in a module you described with 2 note sustain capability like Rings/Plonk and enough modulation potential to completely mangle the sound in interesting ways. Plus you had me at “drone”. 8-)

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Post by Azarius » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:00 pm

Funky40 wrote: i for my one have pianoteq pro and have reprogrammed some Notes, mainly in the bass.
sounds AWESOME ! gives the piano a totally different feel.
i often play with the Bassnotes in a style comparable to how a Sequenzer would play. ( mono or duophonic )
I admit you got me intrigued! Checked out Pianoteq’s latest version... looks and sounds really great! Shorter loading times than Ivory is a plus! You might have just convinced me to pick this one up. :banana:

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Post by bkbirge » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:25 am

Don't know how close this would get the OP to the goal but there is this...
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/expert-sl ... general-cv

I think delptronics also has a general midi euro module coming out at some point. Also, there are several CV to midi solutions, where you can roll your own prepared midi piano if you want.

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Post by mskala » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:28 pm

There was a time when someone would've been looking for a piano patch. Not a piano module.

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Post by southberry » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:10 am

someone mentioned Pianoteq, this VST is amazing (I designed the early version of the software who's made by my ancient neighbor) I don't know how it could be translated into a module ... and if it could be interesting
(I can't imagine it without polyphony .... and the keyboard chords etc )
Maybe you think about a "piano puck version" ? something to do one finger machine piano sequences ?

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Post by pzoot » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:58 am

mskala wrote:There was a time when someone would've been looking for a piano patch. Not a piano module.
What I find interesting about the discussion is the possibility of dramatically morphing a physical model of an acoustic piano in real time. That requires software. But I don’t think even pianoteq can handle dramatic real time transformations on a computer, so I think it’s somewhat of a pipe dream to think a module could handle it (dreams are perfectly appropriate for the internet though ... especially ones fueled by pipes!). But in my experience, Ive never heard a convincing acoustic piano patch made with oscillators and filters

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Post by Neo » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:17 pm

Even without polyphony it would be very useful. There's a great (and really fast) Shostakovich piece that is entirely monophonic. I don't have my music books with me so I can't say what it's called.

Also,if it doesn't have multiple CV/gate inputs then it could have chord CV's, maybe like the Chord module or 4VOX.

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Post by Blairio » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:05 pm

I have had Pianoteq since it first came out. I love the traditional piano models, but also that you can really screw up the various parameters and end up with something that sounds like a hammer dulcimer!

The various Yamaha FM keyboards had a stab at Piano voices, and while not authentic, they were interesting in their own right. so maybe something like Alkemie's Castle would work for this.

And perhaps Rings / Plaits could get into the hammer dulcimer ball park? That will be next weeks' project.

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Post by uniquepersonno2 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:18 am

I wonder if Plonk has any convincing piano capabilities... I know what I'm doing tomorrow.
It's done!
...probably! Ahhh, who am I kidding...

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:21 am

Ah, the joys of cv to MIDI! Spent all evening yesterday making sounds and then sequencing with my piano setup. The results are absolutely staggering. The things you can pull off with a 6u and an external piano synth...
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Post by Sandrine » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:18 pm

strangegravity wrote:Image
OMG! I want it!! I wonder if they can be daisy chained :P

That's a really good idea/question. I've been looking at designing a high-end MIDI/CV controlled GM synth that would be focused on piano and yes the memory requirements are in the high megs and of course I would have to job out the acquisition to professional piano experts/recorders.

Dream France has a pretty good setup (beyond their video game chips) but not sure how the royalties works with them really. It *is* tempting though as I personally want a better sounding (to me) stage piano without dropping 5K on it. I used to play the grand piano at the Hotel MacDonald ballroom in Edmonton during off times so I'm a bit spoiled I guess.

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Analog piany

Post by Ears » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:43 pm

I just wish someone would build a 100% analog piano. I'd pay at least a few hundred bucks for that.

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Re: Analog piany

Post by Blairio » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:10 am

Ears wrote:I just wish someone would build a 100% analog piano. I'd pay at least a few hundred bucks for that.
There have been quite a few, mostly dating from the 1970's and before. For instance Rocky Mountain Instruments produced the RMI ElectraPiano.

http://www.hollowsun.com/hs2/products/rmi/index.htm

It didn't sound much like a piano and wasn't even touch sensitive, but it was beloved by ProgRock Bands. Crumar made one or two, also Viscount, Elka....

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Re: Analog piany

Post by bkbirge » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:24 am

Ears wrote:I just wish someone would build a 100% analog piano. I'd pay at least a few hundred bucks for that.
That's just crazy talk.

Modular & Dork Rock:
https://bkbirge.bandcamp.com/
Racks:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/88730
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." ~ Puck, 1903

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