Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

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NoLegs
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by NoLegs » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:52 pm

twistedneck wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:38 am
Boo hoo.. wipe away my tears I get brow beaten by respected peers and customers daily, its part of the usual give and take between customers and vendors. I would love a utopia where nothing ever seemed the least bit annoying but reality is XAOC as a great company knows this and is cracking up about it - they will when they see fit make an update if and when they want to - no issues with that at all. but who knows we just may brow beat them into it by buying enough of these babys.
Ah yes, the classic "I got/get treated like crap so everyone else should have to deal with it when I pass it along to them". Boring. :foul:

Be better.

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by Sinamsis » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:55 pm

twistedneck wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:38 am
I would love a utopia where nothing ever seemed the least bit annoying but reality is XAOC as a great company knows this and is cracking up about it - they will when they see fit make an update if and when they want to - no issues with that at all. but who knows we just may brow beat them into it by buying enough of these babys.
Yeah... or they'll show integrity and tell people with this attitude to fuck off. I know I would/do. Good customer service does not including conceding to every unreasonable request.

autopoiesis's critique is valid and several have voiced this. However, it is a design choice and the maker has explained that and he stood by it. Seems like the issue's resolved.

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by tuj » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:32 am

OK let me be perfectly clear, I've got an Odessa and a HEL, so I've spent my money to support this. That said, I am honestly a bit baffled at the design choices and just wanted an *honest* explanation of why there will be no firmware updates. Look, I get XAOC doesn't want to update the firmware or have to support users bricking their units. But *field programming* a field programmable gate array is not impossible, not impractical, and honestly not even that hard once you are supplied the compiled config file for the chip.

Yes FPGA software tends to be windows-specific, and this causes PITA situations on Macs which many musicians run. I get that. But I also think it's a little arrogant to think that someone got the FPGA design absolutely perfect the first time around and there's nothing that could be added or improved upon or small bugs to fix? These are common issues in all integrated development and software projects. Virtually everyone has chosen to make it possible to update the firmware on their modules:
  • Mutable
    Intellijel
    ADM
    Expert Sleepers
    Synthesis Technology
    4MS
    Tiptop
    Jomox
    1010
    O_c
    Future Retro
    Qu-bit
    Schottkey
    Tesseract
    WMD
    Endorphin.es
    vpme
    IME/harvestman
    orthogonal
    make noise
All of these manufacturers decided that it would be best to allow them to fix and expand their modules after initial release. In many cases the feature-set grew beyond what was initially envision or old idea that were previously difficult to implement are solved. Look at the Shapeshifter, look at the E352. Look at any of the 1010 modules, or especially the mutable modules that all have alternative firmwares written for them. Literally all the manufacturers are taking an "updatable-firmware" approach and I'm honestly a little bit baffled why there is such hostility over questioning such an obvious design choice? Does it not seem obvious that an FPGA-based module *could* and maybe *should* have firmware updates, even if they are just bug fixes?

Modules like the Black Noir saw new effects and bug fixes quickly after its release. Orthogonal has been doing a decade-long campaign of improving the ER-modules with constant new firmware updates. Tiptop fixes bugs. WMD does the same. et al.

There's a degree of arrogance to design an FPGA module and then say 'I'm done; it's perfect'. We're all human here, to err is not a crime. To pretend like it couldn't be fixed though....

Look I get it, you don't want people doing their own updates. But again, I've mentioned you could offer a pay-service for upgrades. Maybe in 1 year you have new ideas for the Odessa you want to implement; does that mean I need to buy version 2 even if it's running the exact same hardware?

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by Arneb » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:23 am

tuj wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:32 am
There's a degree of arrogance to design an FPGA module and then say 'I'm done; it's perfect'. We're all human here, to err is not a crime. To pretend like it couldn't be fixed though....
If I was XAOC that post would leave me really confused, like "huh, customers are outright expecting us to release unfinished products these days?"

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by tuj » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:21 am

Arneb wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:23 am
tuj wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:32 am
There's a degree of arrogance to design an FPGA module and then say 'I'm done; it's perfect'. We're all human here, to err is not a crime. To pretend like it couldn't be fixed though....
If I was XAOC that post would leave me really confused, like "huh, customers are outright expecting us to release unfinished products these days?"
OK, let me take a real-life example, the SID chip. The initial 6xxx chip *had bugs*! These bugs were not fatal to using the chip, and later they were deliberately exploited by programmers to create unique effects that do not normally work on the revised 8xxx version. The guys designing actual silicon that would be *mass* produced, they screwed up. It happens. Intel had a processor bug with floating point division that was at the hardware level, and that's a company with massive resources producing a product that will be in millions of computers and applications. Mistakes can and do happen, and they are more and more likely with short product lifecycles (rapid development) and small development teams. The very concept of the FPGA is that rapid development would be possible and if defects were found, they could be corrected. Aside from being a general purpose device, the FPGA is not a 'write-once' device, but again, programmable.

What's wrong with admitting you might make an error and actually want to fix it?

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Post by synonymist » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:20 pm

retracted due to the track being no longer online
Last edited by synonymist on Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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joey
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by joey » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:19 am



First patch here, modulated by wogglebug

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:16 pm

put it through a wavefolder Joey

the naked sound of this oscillator sometimes reminds me of the things Mark Mothersbaugh did to a Fairlight for the Rugrats theme.

it transforms completely when you wavefold it, which also forces you to exercise more restraint on the number of partials and inharmonicity at further reaches of Tension. which is a good thing IMO for finding the more subtle sweet spots in this form of synthesis

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by ronnieb » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:31 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:16 pm
put it through a wavefolder Joey

the naked sound of this oscillator sometimes reminds me of the things Mark Mothersbaugh did to a Fairlight for the Rugrats theme.

it transforms completely when you wavefold it, which also forces you to exercise more restraint on the number of partials and inharmonicity at further reaches of Tension. which is a good thing IMO for finding the more subtle sweet spots in this form of synthesis
Been looking for a good wavefolder and/or ringmod to pair with my odessa, any reckies you want to throw out to a newbie?

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:34 pm

r*s serge wave multipliers, bastl timber, or toppobrillo triple wavefolder

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joey
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by joey » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:21 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:16 pm
put it through a wavefolder Joey

the naked sound of this oscillator sometimes reminds me of the things Mark Mothersbaugh did to a Fairlight for the Rugrats theme.

it transforms completely when you wavefold it, which also forces you to exercise more restraint on the number of partials and inharmonicity at further reaches of Tension. which is a good thing IMO for finding the more subtle sweet spots in this form of synthesis
i like the naked sound a lot, but i'll try a wavefolder

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by matttech » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:30 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:34 pm
r*s serge wave multipliers, bastl timber, or toppobrillo triple wavefolder
Bastl timber is a lot of fun for sure....

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by nostalghia » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:38 pm

+1 for Timber, my current fave. The old STG folder is great (Haible licensed circuit) but hard to find now, needs a deep case. AH might have stock.
FM Aid is cool too, though not actually a wavefolder as such.
“If you look for a meaning, you'll miss everything that happens.” - Andrei Tarkovsky
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by Rafaelxyz » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:33 am


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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by nikop » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:01 am

This is one of the few decent demos out there. It seems to me that many people don't really know how to make this module sound interesting

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by synonymist » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:48 am

nikop wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:01 am
This is one of the few decent demos out there. It seems to me that many people don't really know how to make this module sound interesting
Why would they? The Odessa module is only about 20 minutes old, and its functionality is unprecedented in the eurorack domain.

Good things are worth waiting for. And discovery is at least half the fun.

EDIT: Why not buy one, then demonstrate for us how it should be made to sound interesting?

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by ferran » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 am

Hey everyone,
someone could save me reading 25,000 pages of the forum and tell me if it is better to buy the Mutable Instruments Elements or the Xaoc Odessa, a million thanks :help:

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by buyingitwontmakeucool » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:10 am

ferran wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 am
Hey everyone,
someone could save me reading 25,000 pages of the forum and tell me if it is better to buy the Mutable Instruments Elements or the Xaoc Odessa, a million thanks :help:
Would you rather support the French economy or Polish?

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by cptnal » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:53 am

buyingitwontmakeucool wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:10 am
ferran wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 am
Hey everyone,
someone could save me reading 25,000 pages of the forum and tell me if it is better to buy the Mutable Instruments Elements or the Xaoc Odessa, a million thanks :help:
Would you rather support the French economy or Polish?
This is Muff's. The correct answer is get both.

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ferran
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by ferran » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:00 pm

Huh? I do not believe that the French or Polish economy depends on me buying a module, I speak of sound, value for money, etc.
There are no specific sympathies or supports.

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ferran
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by ferran » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:02 pm

cptnal wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:53 am
buyingitwontmakeucool wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:10 am
ferran wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:08 am
Hey everyone,
someone could save me reading 25,000 pages of the forum and tell me if it is better to buy the Mutable Instruments Elements or the Xaoc Odessa, a million thanks :help:
Would you rather support the French economy or Polish?
This is Muff's. The correct answer is get both.
Thanks, I had already thought about it !

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by NoLegs » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:22 pm

ferran wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:00 pm
Huh? I do not believe that the French or Polish economy depends on me buying a module, I speak of sound, value for money, etc.
There are no specific sympathies or supports.
Pretty sure that was a joke.

The correct answer is listen to demos and figure out which one you prefer sound wise.

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by buyingitwontmakeucool » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:32 pm

ferran wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:00 pm
Huh? I do not believe that the French or Polish economy depends on me buying a module, I speak of sound, value for money, etc.
There are no specific sympathies or supports.
Actually you spoke of nothing, thus the joke. Good luck!

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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by lisa » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:59 pm

Elements and Odessa are not alike at all. They both make sounds but that’s about it in terms of similarities. Also, Odessa is an oscillator and Elements is a resonator that works as a full voice.
New track! Drum synthesis heavy, melodic piece where Instruō harmonàig is doing the chords. 🐡


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ferran
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Re: Xaoc Odessa, 1975 Variable Spectrum Harmonic Cluster VCO

Post by ferran » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:05 pm

lisa wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:59 pm
Elements and Odessa are not alike at all. They both make sounds but that’s about it in terms of similarities. Also, Odessa is an oscillator and Elements is a resonator that works as a full voice.
Thank you, I was confused :bang: , after seeing some Odessa and Elements videos, for my needs clearly more interested in Elements. I've got a lot of VCOs capable of Odessa tricks.

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