Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

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HenryBurlingame
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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by HenryBurlingame » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:51 pm

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:36 pm
HenryBurlingame wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:21 pm
Been playing around with this thing A LOT for the last week. Probably my favorite sounding complex oscillator and I love all the variety of sounds you can get. My one pet peeve is the noise/bleed on the wavefolder outputs that you can hear when they are fully to the left (the top oscillator is worse in this regard). Just something you have to avoid, but it is annoying when you are wanting to "strike" the wavefolder or when you want to isolate an external signal for wavefolding. If it were not for this I think the module would be nearly perfect.
Not noticed this on mine though it does have a hefty signal. Only bleed I’ve notice is through my VCA.

Is it perhaps because of an internal routing? There are so many I could see having one on and forgetting about it.
No, with all internal routing off just listen to the output of the top wavefolder. When you move the slider all the way to the left you can still slightly hear the oscillator as you change its frequency and there is a slight hissing noise as well (it can be better or worse depending on the wavefolder symmetry bias knob position, so try changing this as well). Tried two different cases and unplugged the other modules in one of the cases as well, so it is not a case or power issue. A lot of other people have mentioned it as well. Instruo even says in the manual that all the way left is "nearly" silent :despair: . Just the nature of the beast I think.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by GregIcky » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:37 pm

HenryBurlingame wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:51 pm
No, with all internal routing off just listen to the output of the top wavefolder. When you move the slider all the way to the left you can still slightly hear the oscillator as you change its frequency and there is a slight hissing noise as well (it can be better or worse depending on the wavefolder symmetry bias knob position, so try changing this as well). Tried two different cases and unplugged the other modules in one of the cases as well, so it is not a case or power issue. A lot of other people have mentioned it as well. Instruo even says in the manual that all the way left is "nearly" silent :despair: . Just the nature of the beast I think.
OK, I just tried it. Plugged it straight into my mixer..... I did notice exactly what you describe... then checked to see if things made a difference. I noticed that I could almost get rid of it with the symmetry knob, very slight adjustments ALMOST got rid of it, but I did still have the hiss. Check the bottom ocs pitch and it effected it.... saw the synch was lit up white and that was making the bottom modulate the top enough to make it hum or buzz like you describe. I turned it off and it got silent (or nearly silent, not anything like before anyway).

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HenryBurlingame
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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by HenryBurlingame » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:56 pm

GregIcky wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:37 pm
HenryBurlingame wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:51 pm
No, with all internal routing off just listen to the output of the top wavefolder. When you move the slider all the way to the left you can still slightly hear the oscillator as you change its frequency and there is a slight hissing noise as well (it can be better or worse depending on the wavefolder symmetry bias knob position, so try changing this as well). Tried two different cases and unplugged the other modules in one of the cases as well, so it is not a case or power issue. A lot of other people have mentioned it as well. Instruo even says in the manual that all the way left is "nearly" silent :despair: . Just the nature of the beast I think.
OK, I just tried it. Plugged it straight into my mixer..... I did notice exactly what you describe... then checked to see if things made a difference. I noticed that I could almost get rid of it with the symmetry knob, very slight adjustments ALMOST got rid of it, but I did still have the hiss. Check the bottom ocs pitch and it effected it.... saw the synch was lit up white and that was making the bottom modulate the top enough to make it hum or buzz like you describe. I turned it off and it got silent (or nearly silent, not anything like before anyway).
Double checked again and nothing is on, fm off as well etc. 100% sure. I guess maybe how much bleed/hiss you get might vary from module to module? With the best settings I can manage (symmetry knob just a little counterclockwise of 12:00) it is just noticable. But as you noticed with other parts of the modulation bus active it can be worse. Even when I have the modulation bus routing oscillator b to the symmetry bias input of oscillator a (or an external signal going in instead) I can still hear the bleed and hiss mixed with the sound of oscillator b if the wavefolder slider is all the way to the left. I usually just try to avoid having the wavefolder go left of the half way mark and everything is good :).

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by GregIcky » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:49 am

HenryBurlingame wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:56 pm
Double checked again and nothing is on, fm off as well etc. 100% sure. I guess maybe how much bleed/hiss you get might vary from module to module? With the best settings I can manage (symmetry knob just a little counterclockwise of 12:00) it is just noticable. But as you noticed with other parts of the modulation bus active it can be worse. Even when I have the modulation bus routing oscillator b to the symmetry bias input of oscillator a (or an external signal going in instead) I can still hear the bleed and hiss mixed with the sound of oscillator b if the wavefolder slider is all the way to the left. I usually just try to avoid having the wavefolder go left of the half way mark and everything is good :).
These is exactly my results as well. I checked again and it's only noticeable for me at higher frequencies. But yes, symmetry a tiny bit left of 12:00 and it's almost silent.... Makes sense that the mod bus would increase this if it's going to symmetry bias since it's so damn sensitive. I haven't extensively checked external signals with osc A (against modulation from osc B) but that will be tomorrows experiment. I haven't been able to NOT experiment with the thing since I got it over a month ago!

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm guessing this is not intended but maybe unavoidable to some degree? I'm no engineer, and Cs-L is my only true analog VCO. Not a deal breaker for me and still probably the best complex osc out there?

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by studioutopia » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:01 am

GregIcky wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:49 am
I'm no engineer, and Cs-L is my only true analog VCO. Not a deal breaker for me and still probably the best complex osc out there?
"Best" is really subjective. If "Best" is based on capabilities - then, No - Cš-L is not the best.
Frap Brenso's extensive shaping and Through-Zero FM put it much higher on that scale.
And I just recently finished assembling the Intellijel Complex Oscillator by adding Bifold to Dixie2+ and Rubicon2. These three modules used as a single Complex Oscillator are even further up the scale - Through-Zero FM, Warp and both a Buchla and Serge-style wavefolder - and a far more open/modular workflow to building a modulation bus.
But each one of these has its strengths and weaknesses... as do Furthurrr Generator, Verbos, DPO, and the rest.
But as far as sound ... Cš-L has a sound that is all it's own.The oscillator cores have a very unique sound. The wavefolders are not like any of the others (similar to the Intellijel Series/Serge folder on Bifold, but not the same). The workflow of the Mod bus is very efficient. It is a prized oscillator to me. Cš-L was my "gateway drug" to complex oscillators, but it has not lost any love from me.
If you enjoy using it, and it gives you the sonic results you are looking for - you have an epic oscillator.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by GregIcky » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:27 am

studioutopia wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:01 am

"Best" is really subjective. If "Best" is based on capabilities - then, No - Cš-L is not the best.
Frap Brenso's extensive shaping and Through-Zero FM put it much higher on that scale.
And I just recently finished assembling the Intellijel Complex Oscillator by adding Bifold to Dixie2+ and Rubicon2. These three modules used as a single Complex Oscillator are even further up the scale - Through-Zero FM, Warp and both a Buchla and Serge-style wavefolder - and a far more open/modular workflow to building a modulation bus.
But each one of these has its strengths and weaknesses... as do Furthurrr Generator, Verbos, DPO, and the rest.
But as far as sound ... Cš-L has a sound that is all it's own.The oscillator cores have a very unique sound. The wavefolders are not like any of the others (similar to the Intellijel Series/Serge folder on Bifold, but not the same). The workflow of the Mod bus is very efficient. It is a prized oscillator to me. Cš-L was my "gateway drug" to complex oscillators, but it has not lost any love from me.
If you enjoy using it, and it gives you the sonic results you are looking for - you have an epic oscillator.
Yes yes, best for my purposes and price range I suppose. Admittedly it's my first analog VCO and I did look at all of those mentioned above. Verbos, Frap and Endorphin.es all looked to be high caliber. DPO I've heard great things about, with some minor complaints about build quality. The only other modules I have that are semi complex are Shapeshifter and Hertz Donut... but not really qualified to be this list (maybe SS is debatable but very digital indeed).

That 3 module Intellijel complex set up sounds really cool, I just read a little blurb in Patch and Tweak from Djaniel about how he likes to roll his own Buchla style complex oscillator. I don't think he mentions specific modules, but I can see how using Rubicon2 thru zero and what your mentioned above being a really powerful set up.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by closedLoop » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:39 am

studioutopia wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:01 am

And I just recently finished assembling the Intellijel Complex Oscillator by adding Bifold to Dixie2+ and Rubicon2. These three modules used as a single Complex Oscillator are even further up the scale - Through-Zero FM, Warp and both a Buchla and Serge-style wavefolder - and a far more open/modular workflow to building a modulation bus.
This is an important point. Instead of choosing the "best" complex oscillator, one can simply put one together from a set of modules, and really tailor the combination of modules to be the "best" for the sound that you're going for.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by lisa » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:47 am

If "best" is about the sound, yeah. To me, it's a lot about the workflow. I could patch up several equivalents to a complex oscillator in my racks but I rarely do.
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by HenryBurlingame » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:15 am

The sound is what keeps me hanging on to the Cs-L for sure. I also use the Frap tools falistri as a "complex" oscillator of sorts, it is one of my favorite modules. If I got a second dedicated complex oscillator it would definitely be a brenso... but there are a lot of other things I need first ;).

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by GregIcky » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:26 am

closedLoop wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:39 am
studioutopia wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:01 am

And I just recently finished assembling the Intellijel Complex Oscillator by adding Bifold to Dixie2+ and Rubicon2. These three modules used as a single Complex Oscillator are even further up the scale - Through-Zero FM, Warp and both a Buchla and Serge-style wavefolder - and a far more open/modular workflow to building a modulation bus.
This is an important point. Instead of choosing the "best" complex oscillator, one can simply put one together from a set of modules, and really tailor the combination of modules to be the "best" for the sound that you're going for.
I suppose this argument could go both ways. Before I got the Cs-L, I tried the ZPO... Sounded great during the 15 minutes I spent with it at my local shop. After having it for a bit I realized that it was going to take a LOT of other modules to really make it shine. It did shine, but it took a whole lot of other modules to get there.

Of course the flexibility factor of Euro/Modular is the why we love it. But just taking the Cs-l, how many actual modules would it take to approach what it's capable of behind, and even on, the front panel? The three uModules mentioned above (I assume) would at least require a few VCA's and maybe a mult? And yes "best" is a relative term, but "simply put one together" may be a tad misleading. A simple-complex oscillator in 40 hp?

There's no right or wrong answer obviously. I don't know that workflow is any more important than sound. Sound being what everyone is after in the end. But less is more, and "size matters" also factor in when you start taking things like space (physical and hp) and even money into account.

Just my 2 cents. Love all the comments and discourse. It's helping me learn and grow and become a better human being. :tu:

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by ch3oh » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:31 am

CS-L owners — what filters do you like to use with it, if any? I'm looking to use it to cover my driven metallic bass sound needs.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by lisa » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 am

ch3oh wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:31 am
CS-L owners — what filters do you like to use with it, if any?
Xaoc Belgrad. Crazy versatile combo.
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by Hovercraft » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:49 am

ch3oh wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:31 am
CS-L owners — what filters do you like to use with it, if any? I'm looking to use it to cover my driven metallic bass sound needs.
Cs-L sounds amazing with all the analog filters in my system. Three Sisters and Jove are probably my favorites, though. Agree that Belgrad is also good. Cs-L can make some nice metallic bass sounds without any filters, but a filter like Jove can throw some liquidy resonance into the mix.

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by drowld » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:53 am

lisa wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 am
ch3oh wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:31 am
CS-L owners — what filters do you like to use with it, if any?
Xaoc Belgrad. Crazy versatile combo.
Yeh Cs-l and belgrad is a deep love story in my rack too
WTB: Intellijel Quadrax, Klangbau Twin Peak Resonator, 1BIT Multitap Delay, five 12 vector, dplr

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Re: Instruō - Cš-L complex oscillator [CS-L]

Post by ch3oh » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:46 pm

Thanks everyone, Belgrad was on my list already, you made it so much more compelling :tu:

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