Random Source 2017 Serge Ring

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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Dogma
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Post by Dogma » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:34 am

who here has calibrated their ring mod for their case and PSU? interested
I just got this (well its with the postperson)
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tbecker
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Post by tbecker » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:03 pm

Navs wrote:I don't know the specifics of this module, but you should be able to calibrate a RM for nulling by ear.

It's a balancing act as you're trying to ensure that with only one audio input you hear as little of that signal on the output (and then the other input). But if you take your time, it is possible.
Unlike some others you need to use one single turn and two additional multiturn trim pots for calibrating. I used a two channel scope and my ears, but I found this was only good for my first case and when I moved it, I need some slight adjustment to get back to the same sound. It is not unlike other ringmods like the cwejman vco-2rm or fsh-1 in this regard you calibrate under load for the best results. Of course it sound without, it too!

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Funky40
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Post by Funky40 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:02 am

at thonk:

*Full kit* means i don´t have to source any parts elsewhere, ALL inclouded ?
( not interested to hunt for parts again / Resistors is no problem / common caps same )


Dogma
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Post by Dogma » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:06 am

im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
look up!

tbecker
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Post by tbecker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:44 am

Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?

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templar
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Post by templar » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:46 am

Funky40 wrote:at thonk:

*Full kit* means i don´t have to source any parts elsewhere, ALL inclouded ?
( not interested to hunt for parts again / Resistors is no problem / common caps same )

yes, full kit = all parts included

Dogma
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Post by Dogma » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:44 am

tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?
i dont own those cwejman modules

ill ask wowa
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tbecker
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Post by tbecker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:08 am

Dogma wrote:
tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?
i dont own those cwejman modules

ill ask wowa
Some discussion is here: viewtopic.php?t=103703&start=25

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paterursus
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Post by paterursus » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:20 am

pugix wrote:I built Ken Stone's version.

http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs79_ring.html

I wonder how the Random Source module compares with it. Do they supply a schematic diagram? They wouldn't have used a CA3080!
RS don't typically provide schematics, and I haven't seen one with this. I haven't purchased this yet, so I can't say about the CA3080. RS surface mount many of the parts on their kits nowadays, including the ICs, so those aren't listed in the BOM. There is a CA3080 SOIC package, so it's possible that he used those.
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paterursus
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Post by paterursus » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:27 am

Funky40 wrote:at thonk:

*Full kit* means i don´t have to source any parts elsewhere, ALL inclouded ?
( not interested to hunt for parts again / Resistors is no problem / common caps same )
Everything I've ever bought listed as a full kit was complete. I bought a RS DUSG full kit from Control in the US, and it contained LEDs, pots, knobs, everything. You could send Thonk an email to confirm, but I would think it has everything.
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phineas
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Post by phineas » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:33 pm

Yes, as templar wrote, the full kit at thonk has all necessary parts included; you don't have to source anything extra.

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Mashmore
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Post by Mashmore » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:51 pm

Why do I want to hear what an uncalibrated Ring sounds like so badly!?!? ;) :nana:

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Funky40
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Post by Funky40 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:11 pm

Thanks for the feedback templar, paterursus and phineas !



what a mix of nicknames :hihi:


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Post by tbecker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:17 pm

Funky40 wrote:Thanks for the feedback templar, paterursus and phineas !



what a mix of nicknames :hihi:
This is an easy build and feel free to ask, I did it just a few months ago and have my finished and calibrated unit on hand to compare or contrast.

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Post by tbecker » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Dogma wrote:
tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?
i dont own those cwejman modules

ill ask wowa
Well you claimed to own them before, so this looks very bad for you actually! Didn't you sell off a VCO-2RM a few years ago? It seems that you could share more of your personal experience and insight if you cared too...

Dogma
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Post by Dogma » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:23 pm

tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:
tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?
i dont own those cwejman modules

ill ask wowa
Well you claimed to own them before, so this looks very bad for you actually! Didn't you sell off a VCO-2RM a few years ago? It seems that you could share more of your personal experience and insight if you cared too...
Please Tbecker please show me where i claimed to own these modules????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I own a bunch of cwejman modules just not those and yes i did own a VCO-RM at one point but sold it.....what personal insight can i share with a module i dont own......
:miley: :miley: :miley: :miley:
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phineas
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Post by phineas » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:32 am

I didn't have the time to work out how/where to do it yet (don't own a two-channel oscilloscope), so I have an uncalibrated R*S Ringmod.
To my ears it sounds great as it is already.

Unfortunately I am drowning in work right now and don't have any time to fire up the synth, but I'll try to do it next week.
Would be very interested to hear the comparison myself!

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Post by tbecker » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Dogma wrote:
tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:
tbecker wrote:
Dogma wrote:im curious about this....if its calibrated correctly to begin with why would i need to tune it again to my case/psu?
If you want your Cwejman VCO-2RM, FSH-1 or Serge Ring 2017 to sound correctly, you calibrate in your case on your PSU. This info comes directly from docs written by Wowa and Serge. Most people that have these modules are interested in having them work correctly, why would't you want your balanced modulator to be balanced and function at its best?
i dont own those cwejman modules

ill ask wowa
Well you claimed to own them before, so this looks very bad for you actually! Didn't you sell off a VCO-2RM a few years ago? It seems that you could share more of your personal experience and insight if you cared too...
Please Tbecker please show me where i claimed to own these modules????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I own a bunch of cwejman modules just not those and yes i did own a VCO-RM at one point but sold it.....what personal insight can i share with a module i dont own......
:miley: :miley: :miley: :miley:
Did you ever make use of the VCO-2RM as a ring mod with other signals? Did you like the sound of the RM on the unit, etc? If you put a positive envelope in one in input it would cancel the internal normal and then operate much like a VCA. Then you might notice on that module just like the Serge Ring that you get some bleed coming in from the one OSC that is still patched in. This bleed is really the main thing that I am talking about with respect to the Serge Ring. I was pointing out that it is very similar in terms of calibrating in order to get the bleed to be as small as possible which makes the module more useful because it can be a VCA when you want it to be. See what I am saying?

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stickmann
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Post by stickmann » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:51 pm

I recorded this about a week ago. Sines from the R*S NTO and Dixie II go into the Ring inputs. A DUSG is modulating the CV Mode of the Ring while the Stepped side of the SSG samples noise into the pitch of the NTO and is triggered at the end of a DUSG cycle. Not polished but I think it shows off some of the possibilities with the modules. Past the 5 minute mark I add the 2nd section of the VCM into the mix which is a combination with sounds I can't reproduce on any other combination of modules. One of the channels is filtered through the VCFQ and both channels end up at the Stereo Mixer as final outputs to my soundcard. I added reverb in the DAW.

http://soundcloud.com/brneum/serge-ring-vcm

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Post by ookrsia » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 am

Thanks a lot for this super informative and clear demo! Sounds really nice, and also really informative to hear the Ring going audiorate. Kind of surprising that the audiorate part sounds so uninteresting as usually Serge modules do that very well.

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Post by abdul6 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:51 am

Hello Ring people

I just finished to build a Thonk kit yesterday, first DIY project ;-) and the module works beautifully,
I'll try to calibrate it now.

I have a question thought, I don't ear any difference between the two Outs
is this normal ?

edit after reading calibration process : ok both outs are identical ;-)
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gummyboy
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Post by gummyboy » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:30 pm

Hi!!

I tried to calibrate the Ring and I get the graphs in the attached pics. They are not as beautiful as in the build documents from their web site. Is it acceptable? or I did something wrong?

Red graph is from E352 -> Data -> "Carrier" input.
Green graph is from DPO-> "Signal" input with some attenuation -> Ring out -> Data

Big Thanks!!!!!

ps : Do you still have to calibrate with complete module?

Image
Image
Image

abdul6
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Post by abdul6 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:01 am

I just calibrated mine few days ago, and i am not a an expert
but
by just seeing your graph I have the feeling that you are using the final output of the DPO, did you ?
maybe should you try with very clean waves ?
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gummyboy
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Post by gummyboy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:44 pm

I actually used the clean signal from DPO. I am not sure which one was exactly but it was either saw or sine from left side. I am not in front of my modules...

I was wondering too why the green signal is kinda distorted. It doesn't look symmetrical. Could that happen because of bad soldering?

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SlyFrank
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Post by SlyFrank » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:52 pm

gummyboy wrote:I actually used the clean signal from DPO. I am not sure which one was exactly but it was either saw or sine from left side. I am not in front of my modules...

I was wondering too why the green signal is kinda distorted. It doesn't look symmetrical. Could that happen because of bad soldering?
I think your soldering is probably fine. I just built and calibrated my module a few days ago. It took me a while to get it just right. I also at first ended up with the display you are showing. It takes a lot of fiddling with the two lower trimmers (this is not an upper offset trimmer issue, although you will need to fine-tune that as you go, especially at the end).

My advice is to keep fiddling with the two lower trimmers. As I say, it took me a while. I used the O'Toole+, which has such a small display that I had to use my soldering magnifying glass to get a really good view of the screen - your DATA probably will be better for this purpose.

Anyway, I finally got it super-nice, which, at the start of calibrating I thought would never happen. With fiddling, time, and patience, you should get there.

BTW, I also used the DPO - for both signal and carrier. As you calibrate, I found it helpful to change the carrier from Saw to Sine occasionally - quite different. I started with Saw, but got my best results using Sine - go back-and-forth. Also, change the frequency of the signal now and then. Go back and forth from Sine-Saw for the carrier. Unless something is wrong with your module you should be able to get a lovely result like in the manual.

The payoff is huge. After finally getting it calibrated nicely, using the outputs from the DPO, and fiddling with the cross-modulating FM on the DPO, I immediately started getting some amazing gorgeous sounds out of this Ring Mod. Adding a filter after the output sounds good too. I love the changing from RM-AM-original signal. Add in changing FM on the DPO, and it's just magic. Keep calibrating until you get near-perfect results on your scope (looking at your pics you're not nearly there yet, but you will!)

Cheers :guinness:

Edit: I see now that you have been changing carrier waveforms. That is good. You just need to keep fiddling with the trimmers. And the green signal does not seem distorted to me. Mine looked quite the same. Try increasing the frequency of the signal and you'll get different viewpoints of the signal.

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