ACL Sinfonion

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zengomi
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by zengomi » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:06 pm

Honestly, I've yet to hear anything employing the Sinfonion that I'd care to listen to again. [Harsh? Yah. So?] The issue is it's either utterly derivative conceptually or sonically weak. Mostly the former. I have a Sinfonion. Have yet dig into it. Ground zero is still ground zero.


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Naenyn
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Naenyn » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:59 pm

Want.

Does anyone happen to know when Perfect Circuit will be restocked?
-n :ninja:

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Jaypee » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm

I read every posts about VCMC on this thread...and I'm not that sure if it's the right choice (if there is any) for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this? Is VCMC an "ok but not perfect solution"?

Cheers
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:46 pm

Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
... for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this?
We used two Doepfer A-192-2 Dual CV/Gate to Midi Interfaces but accuracy and precision were difficult to obtain. Doepfer have a bunch of great modules, the A-192-2 is not their best. Then we tested the ADDAC 222, the most clever and direct control of parameters. People at ADDAC helped us to find the best ways to fix many bugs and we were not far from the top when we discovered the Expert Sleepers General CV module. This one with its MIDI breakout expander is the most precise of all the tested modules. The only difficulty is to set the parameters with an ultratiny screen and many menus. The last we are checking now is the CVThing from Befaco. Better screen but software difficulties. Like people at ADDAC, Doepfer and Expert Sleepers, people at Befaco are always here to help and I'm sure in 2021 we'll reach the top with all these brands.

This experiment with a Sinfonion, the General CV and the CVThing. Not perfect but it's in progress :


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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by SirSickSik » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:32 am

Might it be an idea to add a "semi-random" root progression generator, tonnetz style, that would generate a song sequence for the sinfonion?
Read as, calculating a "sound" progression that returns to the starting key after a set amount of steps with some randomisation of certain parameters of the calculation. (Eg. which and how many transformations may be used within the set amount of steps and how far the progression may move from the starting key.)

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cloudswim » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:31 am

Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
I read every posts about VCMC on this thread...and I'm not that sure if it's the right choice (if there is any) for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this? Is VCMC an "ok but not perfect solution"?

Cheers
I have the Befaco VCMC as well as the ADDAC221, imho the ADDAC221 is a better choice.

its tracking of CC to MIDI is very accurate. Its much easier to use and the switches allow you to make octave changes on the fly.

The VCMC on the other hand is quite complicated , just a lot of fiddling to get it right didn't like it so much. Especially the tiny little screen that you can't read anything. The design is not very good, felt like they tried to put too much inside something that should be much simpler. Not inspiring.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:25 pm

cloudswim wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:31 am
Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
I read every posts about VCMC on this thread...and I'm not that sure if it's the right choice (if there is any) for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this? Is VCMC an "ok but not perfect solution"?

Cheers
I have the Befaco VCMC as well as the ADDAC221, imho the ADDAC221 is a better choice.

its tracking of CC to MIDI is very accurate. Its much easier to use and the switches allow you to make octave changes on the fly.

The VCMC on the other hand is quite complicated , just a lot of fiddling to get it right didn't like it so much. Especially the tiny little screen that you can't read anything. The design is not very good, felt like they tried to put too much inside something that should be much simpler. Not inspiring.
You send notes, CV and gates, with the ADDAC221 ?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cloudswim » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:47 am

tokidoki wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:46 pm
Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
... for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this?
We used two Doepfer A-192-2 Dual CV/Gate to Midi Interfaces but accuracy and precision were difficult to obtain. Doepfer have a bunch of great modules, the A-192-2 is not their best. Then we tested the ADDAC 222, the most clever and direct control of parameters. People at ADDAC helped us to find the best ways to fix many bugs and we were not far from the top when we discovered the Expert Sleepers General CV module. This one with its MIDI breakout expander is the most precise of all the tested modules. The only difficulty is to set the parameters with an ultratiny screen and many menus. The last we are checking now is the CVThing from Befaco. Better screen but software difficulties. Like people at ADDAC, Doepfer and Expert Sleepers, people at Befaco are always here to help and I'm sure in 2021 we'll reach the top with all these brands.

This experiment with a Sinfonion, the General CV and the CVThing. Not perfect but it's in progress :

I have the expert sleeper midi breakout I don’t think it’s more accurate than the ADDAC 221. Mode C on the ADDAC is a dream to use, I highly recommend it for someone looking to convert CC / gate to MIDI. 222 is different unit though. They are built really well also.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:06 am

cloudswim wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:47 am
tokidoki wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:46 pm
Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
... for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this?
We used two Doepfer A-192-2 Dual CV/Gate to Midi Interfaces but accuracy and precision were difficult to obtain. Doepfer have a bunch of great modules, the A-192-2 is not their best. Then we tested the ADDAC 222, the most clever and direct control of parameters. People at ADDAC helped us to find the best ways to fix many bugs and we were not far from the top when we discovered the Expert Sleepers General CV module. This one with its MIDI breakout expander is the most precise of all the tested modules. The only difficulty is to set the parameters with an ultratiny screen and many menus. The last we are checking now is the CVThing from Befaco. Better screen but software difficulties. Like people at ADDAC, Doepfer and Expert Sleepers, people at Befaco are always here to help and I'm sure in 2021 we'll reach the top with all these brands.

This experiment with a Sinfonion, the General CV and the CVThing. Not perfect but it's in progress :

I have the expert sleeper midi breakout I don’t think it’s more accurate than the ADDAC 221. Mode C on the ADDAC is a dream to use, I highly recommend it for someone looking to convert CC / gate to MIDI. 222 is different unit though. They are built really well also.
We use the ADDAC 222 to send chords, notes, pitch-CVs and gates to MIDI. Can you send chords, notes to MIDI with the ADDAC 221 ?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cloudswim » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:33 am

tokidoki wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:06 am
cloudswim wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:47 am
tokidoki wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:46 pm
Jaypee wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 pm
... for sending midi information (chords) to my polysynths...what did you use for doing this?
We used two Doepfer A-192-2 Dual CV/Gate to Midi Interfaces but accuracy and precision were difficult to obtain. Doepfer have a bunch of great modules, the A-192-2 is not their best. Then we tested the ADDAC 222, the most clever and direct control of parameters. People at ADDAC helped us to find the best ways to fix many bugs and we were not far from the top when we discovered the Expert Sleepers General CV module. This one with its MIDI breakout expander is the most precise of all the tested modules. The only difficulty is to set the parameters with an ultratiny screen and many menus. The last we are checking now is the CVThing from Befaco. Better screen but software difficulties. Like people at ADDAC, Doepfer and Expert Sleepers, people at Befaco are always here to help and I'm sure in 2021 we'll reach the top with all these brands.

This experiment with a Sinfonion, the General CV and the CVThing. Not perfect but it's in progress :

I have the expert sleeper midi breakout I don’t think it’s more accurate than the ADDAC 221. Mode C on the ADDAC is a dream to use, I highly recommend it for someone looking to convert CC / gate to MIDI. 222 is different unit though. They are built really well also.
We use the ADDAC 222 to send chords, notes, pitch-CVs and gates to MIDI. Can you send chords, notes to MIDI with the ADDAC 221 ?
Yeh sorry my bad it’s the 222 that sends cc

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am

The ADDAC221 is the 10X9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System
The ADDAC222 is the Multiphonic CV-to-MIDI Notes module

The current options for CV-to-MIDI notes seem to be:
ADDAC222
Analogue Solutions RS-300 (maybe)
Befaco VCMC
Befaco CV Thing
Doepfer A-192-2
Expert Sleepers General CV (with MIDI expander)
Expert Sleepers Disting (with MIDI expander)
SDS Accord Melisma
Tubbutec uTune

CV to MIDI is clearly a relatively straightforward problem.
Fabricating MIDI notes from CV is evidently not a straightforward problem.

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robotfunk
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by robotfunk » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:41 pm

Great overview. If introducing a DAW is not a problem, Expert Sleepers ES6 (with ES3) combined with Silent Way is another option.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Jaypee » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am
The ADDAC221 is the 10X9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System
The ADDAC222 is the Multiphonic CV-to-MIDI Notes module

The current options for CV-to-MIDI notes seem to be:
ADDAC222
Analogue Solutions RS-300 (maybe)
Befaco VCMC
Befaco CV Thing
Doepfer A-192-2
Expert Sleepers General CV (with MIDI expander)
Expert Sleepers Disting (with MIDI expander)
SDS Accord Melisma
Tubbutec uTune

CV to MIDI is clearly a relatively straightforward problem.
Fabricating MIDI notes from CV is evidently not a straightforward problem.
Time for proper comparison? :)

Thank you for listing them!
"Those aren't your daddy's waveforms " Cynthia Webster

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by canopychasesounds » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pm

tokidoki wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:15 am
Another experience with the Sinfonion.

This is really beautiful. I'd love to hear this at about 80% its current tempo.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:11 pm

Jaypee wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 pm
mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am
The ADDAC221 is the 10X9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System
The ADDAC222 is the Multiphonic CV-to-MIDI Notes module

The current options for CV-to-MIDI notes seem to be:
ADDAC222
Analogue Solutions RS-300 (maybe)
Befaco VCMC
Befaco CV Thing
Doepfer A-192-2
Expert Sleepers General CV (with MIDI expander)
Expert Sleepers Disting (with MIDI expander)
SDS Accord Melisma
Tubbutec uTune

CV to MIDI is clearly a relatively straightforward problem.
Fabricating MIDI notes from CV is evidently not a straightforward problem.
Time for proper comparison? :)

Thank you for listing them!
We tested the two channels Doepfer A-192-2, the four channels ADDAC 222, the four channels General CV with Breakout MIDI expander and the four channels Befaco CV Thing. We have one more that is not Eurorack, the Kenton mono pro CV to MIDI box.

The one we use actually is the General CV. The ADDAC and the Befaco are waiting updates and the Kenton is waiting to be tested.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:16 pm

canopychasesounds wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pm
tokidoki wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:15 am
Another experience with the Sinfonion.

This is really beautiful. I'd love to hear this at about 80% its current tempo.
Thank you. We will upload other experiments during the month of March.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Jaypee » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:43 am

Tokidoki, it's wonderful.
"Those aren't your daddy's waveforms " Cynthia Webster

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by AnalogDigits » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:58 pm

<Ooops, ignore>

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by LunaticSound » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:22 am

zengomi wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:06 pm
or sonically weak.

Err, am i misunderstanding you here? Are you saying, you don´t like the sound of the sinfonion?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by ModusOp » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:35 am

LunaticSound wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:22 am
zengomi wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:06 pm
or sonically weak.

Err, am i misunderstanding you here? Are you saying, you don´t like the sound of the sinfonion?
I think this refers to that famous Zen koan “What is the sound of one quantizer quantizing?” :zen:

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:37 am

Hi,

I am thinking about support MIDI in/out with the DROID.
Part of that would be a CV to MIDI gateway. It would support up to eight CV/Gate input pairs, would have
very precise AD converters and low latency. And would allow flexible mapping of everything.
Could you say what would be the most important features for this apart from that? Where are the usual pain points or deficiencies in the
existing solutions? What would be a reason e.g. for you to check out such a new solution?

Cheers,

Mathias


tokidoki wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:11 pm
Jaypee wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 pm
mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am
The ADDAC221 is the 10X9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System
The ADDAC222 is the Multiphonic CV-to-MIDI Notes module

The current options for CV-to-MIDI notes seem to be:
ADDAC222
Analogue Solutions RS-300 (maybe)
Befaco VCMC
Befaco CV Thing
Doepfer A-192-2
Expert Sleepers General CV (with MIDI expander)
Expert Sleepers Disting (with MIDI expander)
SDS Accord Melisma
Tubbutec uTune

CV to MIDI is clearly a relatively straightforward problem.
Fabricating MIDI notes from CV is evidently not a straightforward problem.
Time for proper comparison? :)

Thank you for listing them!
We tested the two channels Doepfer A-192-2, the four channels ADDAC 222, the four channels General CV with Breakout MIDI expander and the four channels Befaco CV Thing. We have one more that is not Eurorack, the Kenton mono pro CV to MIDI box.

The one we use actually is the General CV. The ADDAC and the Befaco are waiting updates and the Kenton is waiting to be tested.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by LunaticSound » Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:40 am

ModusOp wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:35 am
LunaticSound wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:22 am
zengomi wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:06 pm
or sonically weak.

Err, am i misunderstanding you here? Are you saying, you don´t like the sound of the sinfonion?
I think this refers to that famous Zen koan “What is the sound of one quantizer quantizing?” :zen:
When a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to record a sample, is it still great material for the next banger?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:01 am

draft
Last edited by tokidoki on Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by swaminstar » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:45 am

Hey all,

Just got mine and am noticing an audible hum ~45sec after power up. Have tried it unpatched in 2 power supplies, across 3 circuits, and alone in the rack. Anyone else hearing a buzz/hum? My gut says bad capacitor, but my gut is often wrong.

power up to hum (starts around 48 seconds in).

https://soundcloud.com/user-61945940/si ... hQfSKfb0bZ

ed. Toby at ACL got back to me...Will update if anyone is interested. Would still love to hear if anyone else has had similar problems.

Update 2, Detroit Modular is doing a unit swap on it.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by tokidoki » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:19 pm

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:37 am
Hi,

I am thinking about support MIDI in/out with the DROID.
Part of that would be a CV to MIDI gateway. It would support up to eight CV/Gate input pairs, would have
very precise AD converters and low latency. And would allow flexible mapping of everything.
Could you say what would be the most important features for this apart from that? Where are the usual pain points or deficiencies in the
existing solutions? What would be a reason e.g. for you to check out such a new solution?

Cheers,

Mathias


tokidoki wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:11 pm
Jaypee wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:50 pm
mdoudoroff wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am
The ADDAC221 is the 10X9 Channel CV to CC MIDI System
The ADDAC222 is the Multiphonic CV-to-MIDI Notes module

The current options for CV-to-MIDI notes seem to be:
ADDAC222
Analogue Solutions RS-300 (maybe)
Befaco VCMC
Befaco CV Thing
Doepfer A-192-2
Expert Sleepers General CV (with MIDI expander)
Expert Sleepers Disting (with MIDI expander)
SDS Accord Melisma
Tubbutec uTune

CV to MIDI is clearly a relatively straightforward problem.
Fabricating MIDI notes from CV is evidently not a straightforward problem.
Time for proper comparison? :)

Thank you for listing them!
We tested the two channels Doepfer A-192-2, the four channels ADDAC 222, the four channels General CV with Breakout MIDI expander and the four channels Befaco CV Thing. We have one more that is not Eurorack, the Kenton mono pro CV to MIDI box.

The one we use actually is the General CV. The ADDAC and the Befaco are waiting updates and the Kenton is waiting to be tested.
Hello,

Actually, according to our experiments, the General CV is the most accurate to translate notes and velocity to MIDI, but only for 4 voices. What we use are three channels for the Sinfonion quantizers, one for the arpeggiator and a global velocity channel. And we try to use the Befaco CVThing for chords. This Befaco module has a good screen but actually needs some update for precision of translation at high tempo.

What we would like to find in another solution would be constant precision with conversions and to be able to easily change the configuration of the 8 MIDI channels parameters, perhaps with 8 or 16 memories for global configurations. Ok, 8 memories would be enough. We like the options on the ADDAC 222 to directly modify parameters with switches and potentiometers, so to find such possibilities with 8 channels would be fine too. Ah, and a mute switch fonction for each 8 channels. Actually we use an Happy Nerding mute module for 4 channels and one gate out from the Sinfonion to control a 4ms SCM Breakout module mute fonction for the Befaco.

We hope our english doesn't need too many updates...

Thank you again for the Sinfonion, great module.

Jean

PS We are testing again the ADDAC 222 for the chords section, and all these direct controls for MIDI channels, velocity level for every channel, polyphony, mute switch for every channel are great, the only pain point being again the precision of conversion, sometimes weak. But direct controls are a very good feature.

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