ACL Sinfonion

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jwise
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by jwise » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:09 am

From the questions and answers here it becomes very apparent that people who have a Sinfonion need to read the manual. I ordered mine a month ago but it's held up in international shipping so I'm not speaking from experience but I can't say I've encountered many modules where so many owners keep referring to the user manual.

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Agawell
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Agawell » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:35 am

disting?

I've had my Sinfonion a few months - and for the purpose that I wanted it for - chord progression sequencer with additional quantizers, I don't have to look at the manual (anymore)

anything else I'd definitely need to re-read the manual - luckily the manual is good
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Der Mann mit der Maschine
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Der Mann mit der Maschine » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:58 am

jwise wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:09 am
From the questions and answers here it becomes very apparent that people who have a Sinfonion need to read the manual. I ordered mine a month ago but it's held up in international shipping so I'm not speaking from experience but I can't say I've encountered many modules where so many owners keep referring to the user manual.
Hey John, I'm really sorry, that the shipping is so much delayed! :despair: Please drop us a note when it finally arrives!

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Catchthehare
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:01 am

jwise wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:09 am
From the questions and answers here it becomes very apparent that people who have a Sinfonion need to read the manual. I ordered mine a month ago but it's held up in international shipping so I'm not speaking from experience but I can't say I've encountered many modules where so many owners keep referring to the user manual.
I think it's mostly because there are a number of ways to achieve desired results, and in some instances it's not immediately obvious. It all depends on your workflow, and (more importantly) knowledge of music theory. It's a very simple and immediate module to operate, much more so than O+C for example, but there are few changes in the ways scales and how to change notes / scales / modes, compared to all the quantisers we've experienced in the past. The manual is very good and will be indispensable for some time to come

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:45 pm

mkasthe wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:44 am
If you need to keep the same notes in the scale (and effectively do the C Ionian > G Mixolydian trick) you can go in Chords mode, select C major and just dial in the specific chords selecting the proper scale degrees in the chords section (1/3/5 and 5/7/9 for you Cmaj/Gmaj example).
The only issue doing this is that you will need to rethink the other sections of the Sinfonion in terms of a specific degree of the scale being temporarily the root.
It took me a little while to get wrapped around it, mostly in terms of refreshing a little of my stale music theory, but I am finding that I can easily enough shift my sequencer steps from the one way of working to the other when needed...

For example, I might start searching for a nice progression by setting one root for a few steps and then adjusting either the chord buttons and/or the degree to line up a few steps that work well together, and then if I decide that I want to change the root on a given step for the sake of the channels using Input Follows Root I can do a quick bit of “math”, as it were, adjust the root, the degree if necessary, and then shift the allowed notes around (usually in the chord section first.)

Alternatively, I might start with a degree that suits the mood and set up a few steps on various different roots I’m hearing in my head, perhaps tweaking the degree on a step here or there, and then play a bit with the various steps’ allowed notes in the chord section. And then shift things in the other direction so as to put two steps onto the same root, for example, but with differing chords.

Or I’ll start with one of the above, end up playing with inversions (often for the sake of voice leading,) decide to shift to what is at first an accidental via one of the Fill buttons, and later go off and figure out what key I just put myself into and then, if I want to bring the other channels in line with that, update the root and degree to match.

There are so many options here, almost too many ;), but the thing I would encourage everyone most is to get stuck in, play around, and bone up on a little bit of theory as and when you need to (it honestly won’t take all that much, and there are plenty of web sites, phone/tablet apps, etc. to help.) I’ve not yet found that starting with any one of the ways I described working above has prevented me from shifting a step or whole sequence toward any of the others.

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cane creek
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cane creek » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:55 pm

would the Sinfonion pair ok with a Vermona Perfourmer?

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mvdirty
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:01 pm

cane creek wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:55 pm
would the Sinfonion pair ok with a Vermona Perfourmer?
I’m not familiar with it but from a glance at its web page I can’t imagine why not. Using it for chord duty seems a bit of a waste of its capabilities so I’d likely wire it up to some or all of the other four channels.

Are you in Colin’s Discord, perchance?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cane creek » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:34 pm

mvdirty wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:01 pm
cane creek wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:55 pm
would the Sinfonion pair ok with a Vermona Perfourmer?
Are you in Colin’s Discord, perchance?
Yes, i got curious about Sinfonion and ended up watching a few of Colins videos which resulted in me joining Discord, i only signed up and then left.

I do have a large Eurorack, however I've been spending more time with my hard wired synths lately hence the perfourmer question.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:30 pm

cane creek wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:34 pm
Yes, i got curious about Sinfonion and ended up watching a few of Colins videos which resulted in me joining Discord, i only signed up and then left.

I do have a large Eurorack, however I've been spending more time with my hard wired synths lately hence the perfourmer question.
Ahh, someone in the Discord mentioned they had just ordered a PerFOURmer so I figured it might be the same person.

Colin made some use of the Sinfonion in a couple of streams but then didn’t really patch it much after that. :/ Hopefully he will again.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by monads » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:18 am

Der Mann mit der Maschine wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:20 pm
Today I spoke with Martin from ACL. I hope I will get an official statement from them and post it here. But he told me that they are answering all Emails you write them.
Reaching out to ACL regarding. Kinda sucks being an early supporter and then not being able to update the software on the same module that's being shipped with an upgraded firmware.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Hanz » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:57 am

Still, in my opinion even the owners of modules with newer firmware would benefit from being able to update at a later point.
While definitely not a huge thing, I've noticed one or two smaller bugs with mine - which I had originally had to send back for manufacturing defect, and came back with (early) updated firmware at my request, around the time when the original bug was first becoming discussed.
I did send a bug report (regarding small issue with the calibration function) back to ACL but haven't heard back if that become addressed since.

Was actually under the assumption that a 'dongle' would become available at some point. While I don't wish to complain about it, fully aware it wasn't included originally - my feeling is it should have been, especially considering Sinfonion's price point.
Agreed it's somewhat ironic that early supporters get left out in such case. In today's situation, I just don't think it's plausible to assume dealers would be a realistic option for performing firmware updates.
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:50 pm

Latest Sinfonion test, I've had it about a week now and have been doing a few routing experiments, this one pushes the gate and slew out to my envelope for soloing madness.


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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by neumedi » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Catchthehare wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:50 pm
Latest Sinfonion test, I've had it about a week now and have been doing a few routing experiments, this one pushes the gate and slew out to my envelope for soloing madness.
Love it! Mind running through the patch setup - the part relevant to Sinfonion? What do you have Pot 2 assigned to?

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:54 pm

neumedi wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:18 pm
Catchthehare wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:50 pm
Latest Sinfonion test, I've had it about a week now and have been doing a few routing experiments, this one pushes the gate and slew out to my envelope for soloing madness.
Love it! Mind running through the patch setup - the part relevant to Sinfonion? What do you have Pot 2 assigned to?
Thanks! No problem:

Pot 2 is mapped to Channel 3 quantiser, which is driving the Mangrove "Flute" I'm playing by hand
(I really should have used Channel 2 instead for more variation.. next time)

Settings below:

Solo
Out 1 - Autogate Channel 3 -> To attack on my envelope
In 1 - Channel 3 Slew -> To the release on my envelope
Pot 2 - Channel 3 Pre Trans

Chords
CV 4 - Chords Pitch - I have an LFO going in here for vibrato
Pot 1 - Chords Pitch bend (Attenuate)

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by neumedi » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:22 pm

Excellent - thanks Rob!

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Clumsy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Another Sinfonion track. I love this module.



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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mrerdat » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:56 pm

I've been using this module since September and have a feature suggestion for a future update:

It would be amazing if Sinfonion had an onboard song part sequencer. Right now it gets tricky to program when your song form is not just ABAB or ABCD repeating (using part forward and part backward triggers). Something like ABABCAADBA for example is much harder to pull off (using the "Song Part 1V/Part" cv control).

With Song Part 1V/Part cv you're adding an external sequencer and possibly other utilities like an offset into the patch (my sequencer only goes from -2 to +2). It feels very much like the original problem Sinfonion solves for quantizers, just not applied to song structure. Also saving song form sequences on an external sequencer eats up space since a lot of Eurorack sequencers don't have that many save slots available.

I have to use a workaround like creating a dummy step at the end of a part with a gate button active on that step in order to advance the song form sequencer forward, which is not an ideal situation because it eats up one of the two gates and limits sequences to 31 steps, since the last step has to be used exclusively to trigger the song form sequencer.

How I imagine the way to do this might be to have a song part sequencer page accessible if you hold down the "song" button. From there you can use the root knob to select A,B,C D, then you sequence similarly to how you normally would with chord progressions.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Agawell » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:02 am

sounds like a good idea to me - hope it's possible!
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Tomorrow Sounds Good » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 am

I wonder if there are any planned updates? I wouldn’t expect there to be

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:39 am

mrerdat wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:56 pm
I've been using this module since September and have a feature suggestion for a future update:

It would be amazing if Sinfonion had an onboard song part sequencer. Right now it gets tricky to program when your song form is not just ABAB or ABCD repeating (using part forward and part backward triggers). Something like ABABCAADBA for example is much harder to pull off (using the "Song Part 1V/Part" cv control).

With Song Part 1V/Part cv you're adding an external sequencer and possibly other utilities like an offset into the patch (my sequencer only goes from -2 to +2). It feels very much like the original problem Sinfonion solves for quantizers, just not applied to song structure. Also saving song form sequences on an external sequencer eats up space since a lot of Eurorack sequencers don't have that many save slots available.

I have to use a workaround like creating a dummy step at the end of a part with a gate button active on that step in order to advance the song form sequencer forward, which is not an ideal situation because it eats up one of the two gates and limits sequences to 31 steps, since the last step has to be used exclusively to trigger the song form sequencer.

How I imagine the way to do this might be to have a song part sequencer page accessible if you hold down the "song" button. From there you can use the root knob to select A,B,C D, then you sequence similarly to how you normally would with chord progressions.
I also hope this is possible, along with the previous suggestion of copy/paste parts.. that would really speed things up in song mode. I haven't tried sequencing (non-sequential) parts yet, but I do remember Matias saying quite a few times that Sinfonion is primarily geared towards "performance" and the tactility of pressing the buttons, which might explain why the automated sequencer functionality isn't as fleshed out as a dedicated sequencer.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:05 am

There’s always a desire to keep jamming more and more functionality into fancy digital modules like the Sinfonion. You can try, but the complexity comes with costs. I, for one, am increasingly skeptical of this sort of demand. I don’t think it’s the job of this module to eliminate the need for other tools, or to anticipate and transcend every arbitrary limitation. I suspect such well-intentioned efforts often make more people unhappy than they make happy.

I’ll also point out that Mathias is introducing a slim set of Droid modules that are, amongst other things, one new way to define your own abstractions that control the Sinfonion the exact way you want to.
Last edited by mdoudoroff on Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:39 am

Here are a couple verses I’ve been working on recently - exploring some more (basic) jazz chord progressions with Sinfonion on duty.




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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by nrg242 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:39 pm

Catchthehare wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:50 pm
Latest Sinfonion test, I've had it about a week now and have been doing a few routing experiments, this one pushes the gate and slew out to my envelope for soloing madness.
Hey Rob, great stuff. what are you using for chords? couldn't tell from looking at pics of your rack.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:01 pm

nrg242 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:39 pm
Catchthehare wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:50 pm
Latest Sinfonion test, I've had it about a week now and have been doing a few routing experiments, this one pushes the gate and slew out to my envelope for soloing madness.
Hey Rob, great stuff. what are you using for chords? couldn't tell from looking at pics of your rack.
Thanks a lot. For the chords I'm using a mix of Cs-L and Disting (so just 3 voice chords here). I admit it's not a great use of CS-L at all, so I'm looking into either a Chords v2 or the Doepfer Quad VCO to take over chord duty, but will probably opt for the Qu-bit for practicality at this stage.

Plaits (Bass channel 1) / Rings (channel 2) and Mangrove (soloing on channel 3).

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