ACL Sinfonion

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mrerdat
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mrerdat » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:36 pm

Catchthehare wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:39 am
I also hope this is possible, along with the previous suggestion of copy/paste parts.. that would really speed things up in song mode. I haven't tried sequencing (non-sequential) parts yet, but I do remember Matias saying quite a few times that Sinfonion is primarily geared towards "performance" and the tactility of pressing the buttons, which might explain why the automated sequencer functionality isn't as fleshed out as a dedicated sequencer.
Good point. I think Mathias' use of the module from his demos is more improvisational.
mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:05 am
There’s always a desire to keep jamming more and more functionality into fancy digital modules like the Sinfonion. You can try, but the complexity comes with costs.
That's true, but it's completely up to Mathias/ACL whether or not it's worth implementing. I find that Eurorack manufacturers are generally receptive to these ideas, which was why I posted in the first place. I'm not the only one who thinks it's a good idea.

If it's too exhausting to add Mathias/ACL can just choose not to do it.
mdoudoroff wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:05 am
I, for one, am increasingly skeptical of this sort of demand. I don’t think it’s the job of this module to eliminate the need for other tools, or to anticipate and transcend every arbitrary limitation. I suspect such well-intentioned efforts often make more people unhappy than they make happy.
This I completely disagree with.

If you write music, control over song form is not an "arbitrary limitation".

I own a considerable amount of digital modules that have been through a few updates and have never ever seen a firmware update for any module where people expressed disappointment about the changes vs a prior version. Plus this suggested feature can be completely ignored by any user who doesn't want to use it, since it just adds to what's there and doesn't change the core functionality in any way.

Buyakasoundman
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Buyakasoundman » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:03 pm

We shouldn’t hold our breath on any firmware upgrades until they sort the dongle situation.

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monads
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by monads » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:11 pm

The firmware was updated from from v1.0 to v1.1. Those of us who ordered early with v1.0 are waiting for that dongle update adapter to be released so we can least get v1.1. Yeah I wouldn't expect any available updates until then either.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by cloudswim » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:56 pm

Catchthehare wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:39 am
mrerdat wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:56 pm
I've been using this module since September and have a feature suggestion for a future update:

It would be amazing if Sinfonion had an onboard song part sequencer. Right now it gets tricky to program when your song form is not just ABAB or ABCD repeating (using part forward and part backward triggers). Something like ABABCAADBA for example is much harder to pull off (using the "Song Part 1V/Part" cv control).

With Song Part 1V/Part cv you're adding an external sequencer and possibly other utilities like an offset into the patch (my sequencer only goes from -2 to +2). It feels very much like the original problem Sinfonion solves for quantizers, just not applied to song structure. Also saving song form sequences on an external sequencer eats up space since a lot of Eurorack sequencers don't have that many save slots available.

I have to use a workaround like creating a dummy step at the end of a part with a gate button active on that step in order to advance the song form sequencer forward, which is not an ideal situation because it eats up one of the two gates and limits sequences to 31 steps, since the last step has to be used exclusively to trigger the song form sequencer.

How I imagine the way to do this might be to have a song part sequencer page accessible if you hold down the "song" button. From there you can use the root knob to select A,B,C D, then you sequence similarly to how you normally would with chord progressions.
I also hope this is possible, along with the previous suggestion of copy/paste parts.. that would really speed things up in song mode. I haven't tried sequencing (non-sequential) parts yet, but I do remember Matias saying quite a few times that Sinfonion is primarily geared towards "performance" and the tactility of pressing the buttons, which might explain why the automated sequencer functionality isn't as fleshed out as a dedicated sequencer.

Make it happen pls !:-)))

James_Fredrickson
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by James_Fredrickson » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 pm



I've been using the Sinfonion as the harmonic and melodic center of a jazz fusion inspired machine with 5 available parts/voices. This whole system was built around the Sinfonion. It's definitely a game changing module for melodic and harmonic improvisation.

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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by second_breakfast » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:05 pm

James_Fredrickson wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 pm


I've been using the Sinfonion as the harmonic and melodic center of a jazz fusion inspired machine with 5 available parts/voices. This whole system was built around the Sinfonion. It's definitely a game changing module for melodic and harmonic improvisation.
Right on! Very cool. Dig your music vibe and your rig. Thanks for sharing.

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wuff_miggler
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by wuff_miggler » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:09 pm

^ thats awesome stuff!! x2

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mkasthe
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:13 pm

James_Fredrickson wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 pm

I've been using the Sinfonion as the harmonic and melodic center of a jazz fusion inspired machine with 5 available parts/voices. This whole system was built around the Sinfonion. It's definitely a game changing module for melodic and harmonic improvisation.
1) Awesome content, thanks for sharing!
2) Like I commented on the video on YT, would be awesome to get some patch notes even if at a high level. Always interested in how other people are patching their Sinfonion to the rest of their system / how they sequence the various quantizers / etc.
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
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James_Fredrickson
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by James_Fredrickson » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:29 pm

mkasthe wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:13 pm
James_Fredrickson wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:30 pm

I've been using the Sinfonion as the harmonic and melodic center of a jazz fusion inspired machine with 5 available parts/voices. This whole system was built around the Sinfonion. It's definitely a game changing module for melodic and harmonic improvisation.
1) Awesome content, thanks for sharing!
2) Like I commented on the video on YT, would be awesome to get some patch notes even if at a high level. Always interested in how other people are patching their Sinfonion to the rest of their system / how they sequence the various quantizers / etc.
Hi, thank you for the interest! I'll try and list the meat of the melodic patching ;)

Pitch CV: The melodies and bassline pitch data are sequenced by hand from 1 of 3 Voltera Metron expanders. The sequences are looping every 1/2 measure. Both the pitch data of the bass and the lead melodic voice is multed and sent to a Doepfer mini switch. The switch allows me to send either pitch data (or no data) to Marbles in external processing mode. The 3 outputs of Marbles and the original melodic pitch cv are sent to a WMD triple switch. The triple switch allows me select the original or the Marbles version of the pitch for the bassline, lead voice, and the second voice. The switch output is then sent to the Sinfonion. This gives me the option to send the bassline or lead melody to each other or to the second voice. This also gives me the ability to easily transition between "songs" by carrying over melodic lines from one section to the next.

Pitch Manipulation: The Marbles and the Volteras can be wiggled to influence the direction of the melodies globally or individually. I'm also sending trigger outputs for the bassline and the lead voice to trigger the sample and hold circuits on both channels of a Sapel. I'm taking the sampled 2n from each channel of the Sapel and feeding these into 2 Quadratts in attenuverter mode. The output from each Quadratt is sent to a cv input on the Sinfonion set to pre-transposition for the lead voice (channel 2 on Sinfonion) and the second voice (channel 3 on Sinfonion). By wiggling the Quadratts and the 2n knob on the Sapel I can essentially solo either melody up or down in pitch. I find the random 2n output on the Sapel to be extremely musical.

Pitch Sequencing: The pitches are divorced from their rhythms. The rhythms for the bassline, both lead voices, and the arpeggiator voice are coming from a Tetrapad and Tete set in euclidean mode. The tetrapad is being recorded in overdub mode and looped every 1/2 measure. The tetrapad gate outputs are sent to Ladik gate Skippers. The CV output from each pad is used to control the probability of the Skippers. This gives me realtime recording probability of notes! The Skipper output is then being sent to a 4 channel MI Braches clone. I'm using the branches output as a manual, global note probability. One channel of the branches is also controlling the probability of sending/splitting gates between the lead melody or the arpeggiator. The gates for the arpeggiator and voice 2 are also sent to a Plog for an AND and XOR logic which makes sure they never trigger at the same time because they can clash a bit. I experimented with many different loop lengths. I tried shorter loops lengths thinking they would give me less repetitive patterns, but they quickly became way too chaotic. And longer loops became very difficult to meaningfully manipulate.

Anyways, this is the quick and dirty! I'd love to discuss anything more in depth, but got to run an errand now :)

btw, here is the Modulargrid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1087978

cheers!

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mvdirty
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:31 pm

Great patch info, James! You’re giving me lots of ideas of things to try. :)

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mkasthe
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:52 pm

Thanks for the patch notes and for sharing the MG profile James!! Lots of great ideas for future explorations :)
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
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James_Fredrickson
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by James_Fredrickson » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:59 pm

mvdirty wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:31 pm
Great patch info, James! You’re giving me lots of ideas of things to try. :)
My pleasure :tu:

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StateAzure
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by StateAzure » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 pm

Got my Sinfonion just today and really loving it so far, it's about the most musical music thing that makes music.

Is the Befaco VCMC generally considered one of the best/cheapest ways to get those Chord outputs into MIDI at the moment? I tried using the Hermod for that purpose and gave up.

First play with the Sinfonion:


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Sinamsis
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Sinamsis » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:31 pm

StateAzure wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Got my Sinfonion just today and really loving it so far, it's about the most musical music thing that makes music.

Is the Befaco VCMC generally considered one of the best/cheapest ways to get those Chord outputs into MIDI at the moment? I tried using the Hermod for that purpose and gave up.

First play with the Sinfonion:

There's also the ADDAC 222. I haven't used it in conjunction with the Sinfonion but it's on my to do list. I do want to explore the VCMC though for sure one of these days.

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mkasthe
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mkasthe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:25 am

StateAzure wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Got my Sinfonion just today and really loving it so far, it's about the most musical music thing that makes music.

Is the Befaco VCMC generally considered one of the best/cheapest ways to get those Chord outputs into MIDI at the moment? I tried using the Hermod for that purpose and gave up.
Some people have tried using it, unfortunately reporting some tracking issues if chords extend more than an octave.
I'm waiting for the Befaco CV thing to drop - it's like a mini-VCMC, no faders or buttons, just 8 CV ins (and much more compact)
Made in Italy and exported to NYC
Instagram: The Analog Kid

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-S.L-
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by -S.L- » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:25 pm

StateAzure wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Got my Sinfonion just today and really loving it so far, it's about the most musical music thing that makes music.

Is the Befaco VCMC generally considered one of the best/cheapest ways to get those Chord outputs into MIDI at the moment? I tried using the Hermod for that purpose and gave up.

First play with the Sinfonion:

finally someone using the Sinfonion how it should be :party: :party:

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StateAzure
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by StateAzure » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:46 pm

mkasthe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:25 am
StateAzure wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Got my Sinfonion just today and really loving it so far, it's about the most musical music thing that makes music.

Is the Befaco VCMC generally considered one of the best/cheapest ways to get those Chord outputs into MIDI at the moment? I tried using the Hermod for that purpose and gave up.
Some people have tried using it, unfortunately reporting some tracking issues if chords extend more than an octave.
I'm waiting for the Befaco CV thing to drop - it's like a mini-VCMC, no faders or buttons, just 8 CV ins (and much more compact)
Oh wow, the Befaco CV Thing looks great! Due in stores pretty soon by the looks of it. Thanks for the info!

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VZvision
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by VZvision » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:55 pm

Question for owners:

Was there a protective film/sticker over the screen when you received your new Sinfonion? Just got my hands on one of these and there appears to be some small inconsistencies in the screen similar to what you get with those protective films you see on camera screens and such. Tried gently peeling at the sides but it didn’t immediately give so don’t want to cause any damage if there is no protective film. Thx in advance :tu:

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mvdirty
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm

VZvision wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:55 pm
Was there a protective film/sticker over the screen when you received your new Sinfonion?
Yes.

Mine had some printing on that protective film which for a brief moment made me think something was wrong with the display. Mine peeled away with a bit of fingernail work at the edge. I would avoid using any tool, though, as the material beneath may be too soft for it.

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VZvision
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by VZvision » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:09 pm

mvdirty wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
VZvision wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:55 pm
Was there a protective film/sticker over the screen when you received your new Sinfonion?
Yes.

Mine had some printing on that protective film which for a brief moment made me think something was wrong with the display. Mine peeled away with a bit of fingernail work at the edge. I would avoid using any tool, though, as the material beneath may be too soft for it.
Cheers for the quick reply! Will peel (still gently :tu: ) with a bit more confidence

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mvdirty
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mvdirty » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:12 pm

VZvision wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:09 pm
Cheers for the quick reply! Will peel (still gently :tu: ) with a bit more confidence
You’re very welcome, and congrats on joining the ranks! The Sinfonion is a one-of-a-kind module.

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Catchthehare
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Catchthehare » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:20 pm

VZvision wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:09 pm
mvdirty wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
VZvision wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:55 pm
Was there a protective film/sticker over the screen when you received your new Sinfonion?
Yes.

Mine had some printing on that protective film which for a brief moment made me think something was wrong with the display. Mine peeled away with a bit of fingernail work at the edge. I would avoid using any tool, though, as the material beneath may be too soft for it.
Cheers for the quick reply! Will peel (still gently :tu: ) with a bit more confidence
Took me a week before I peeled mine off, the screen comes alive 😉

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mdoudoroff
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:32 pm

Anyone using Five12 Vector with the Sinfonion downstream? In my head, it’s not a great match since the Vector already has a lot of ideas about pitch, but I am curious.

mmontazeri
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by mmontazeri » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:58 pm

I use them exclusively together. Works quite well. Leave the vector in chromatic mode and let the sinf do the rest.

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Sinamsis
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Re: ACL Sinfonion

Post by Sinamsis » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:04 pm

Did a quick test with Sinfonion and ADDAC222. Seems to work fine.

I do have a Vector and a Sinfonion. I have not used them together frequently because they're in different cases, but now that I have them closer together I probably will. I could see it pairing VERY well with the Sinfonion.



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