Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

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-S.L-
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Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

Post by -S.L- » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:44 am

Hi !

Looking for users who knows one or the other, if not both, what are the pro/cons on each modules ?

My heart goes for the Verbos but maybe the Fumana has more options (more frequencies)

Looking forward to heard your thoughts :tu:

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Post by x2mirko » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:13 am

I don't think you'll find many people with both, as that seems rather excessive (then again, this is the time for excess in eurorack). I have the fumana and am very happy with it. It sounds great and responds very exactly.

I think overall, the fumana is a lot more powerful because of it's separate mod inputs. You can send a separate signal into the modulation input which then feeds the envelope followers for the different bands which then supply the modulation for the original signal you send in. Thus, it functions like a vocoder immediately, whereas from what I can see, you'd need two bark filters to accomplish the same thing.

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Re: Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

Post by mritenburg » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:12 am

-S.L- wrote:Hi !

Looking for users who knows one or the other, if not both, what are the pro/cons on each modules ?

My heart goes for the Verbos but maybe the Fumana has more options (more frequencies)

Looking forward to heard your thoughts :tu:
The Fumana is actually 2 full 16 band filters behind 1 panel. It can do much better Vocoding.
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Post by Hanz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:19 am

Agree with the above.

Purchased a Fumana recently on strength of some of some example videos.
What I did not expect is the level of quality in terms of ‘precision’ in use and ‘clarity’ of the signal.
It just feels ... extremely well made.

Without turning this into a bashing of Verbos (of which I owned a larger set of modules in the past - not the Bark filter, mind you) but found these two elements - ‘precision’ and ‘clarity’ consistently lower across the Verbos range. I kept running into slight calibration issues, imbalanced control ranges and slightly fuzzy / impure sound.

Horses for courses, probably - I could imagine some other people might be specifically looking for that Verbos ‘character’. Just not me...
I’m extremely happy with the Fumana!
Last edited by Hanz on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

Post by Hanz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:29 am

mritenburg wrote:The Fumana is actually 2 full 16 band filters behind 1 panel. It can do much better Vocoding.
Clearly. However, not only band stepness is different, so is the specific selection of the EQ bands.
While Fumana is carefully distributed across 14 bands (roughly a Major 7th) with additional lowpass and highpass filters on first and last bands, Verbos uses 12 bands across the ‘Bark scale’ - a different frequency distribution, based on psychoacoustics if I understood correctly.
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Re: Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

Post by mritenburg » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:50 am

Hanz wrote:
mritenburg wrote:The Fumana is actually 2 full 16 band filters behind 1 panel. It can do much better Vocoding.
Clearly. However, not only band stepness is different, so is the specific selection of the EQ bands.
While Fumana is carefully distributed across 14 bands (roughly a Major 7th) with additional lowpass and highpass filters on first and last bands, Verbos uses 12 bands across the ‘Bark scale’ - a different frequency distribution, based on psychoacoustics if I understood correctly.
I thought that the Fumana frequency distribution was based on a Besel function.
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Post by duncanperson » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:00 am

I've had the Bark Filter for a few months, so can comment on that one. The features are very similar but I think there are a few key differences which might affect how you use it. Price and HP are lower on the Verbos (I use one in a 9U system).

What's great about the bark filter is the steepness of the filters and the spacing between bands, they do have a nice resonant sound. Even will all the sliders up, the sound you get out is a bit different to what you put in - it's grittier in a nice warm way. I think the filter bands are well chosen to be as flexible as possible, the high bands have a really nice effect to control the sizzling sound of FM. CV control is great as with all Verbos modules. My favourite use: x-fade between Odds and Evens while modulating scan/tilt - because the bands are chosen base on how the ear hears them, the effect is vibrant and deep phaser/wavetable like sound morphing. Really amazing sound!

The main difference I can see with these modules is that Frap Tools chooses to have evenly spaced bands following something similar to a graphic EQ, whereas the Verbos focuses on frequencies that are more recognised by the ears. The first 6 bands of the Fumana are covered by the first 2 bands of the Bark Filter. To me this says that scanning up and down the bands will be less dramatic, more like sweeping a standard filter. Straight away this means that the Fumana will be better for shaping bass sounds. This is the only drawback of the Verbos because with the lowest control at 100Hz and 200Hz you will loose most of your bass without precision if you cut those bands.

The Bark Filter is definitely not an EQ or filter replacement. In a way it sounds similar to the Verbos HO in its ability to manipulate and single out harmonics. The best part is how dramatically each band effects the overall sound, especially when crossfaded or panned. I question how useful the lower bands are on the Fumana and suspect these are more useful as an EQ rather than an effect.

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Post by duncanperson » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:02 am

TLDR: More frequencies does not always mean more flexible or better sound.

crossfade odds with evens for deep wavetable/phaser like effects and tweak the faders :party:

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Post by -S.L- » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:05 am

I'm not looking for a graphic EQ really but more like something that add character to the sound, definitely like sound design rather that looking for a some filter (that I already have plenty !)

I really like the "harmonic scanning" a lot, a bit like their Verbos harmonic oscillator in a way, but that I would do something like that with any sounds I feed into the module.

the Fumana is lot bigger and more expensive, but if it does a lot more (including what I'm aiming for at the first place) then it's a no brainer ?



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Re: Verbos Bark Filter VS Frap Tools Fumana ?

Post by Hanz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:23 am

Clearly. However, not only band stepness is different, so is the specific selection of the EQ bands.
While Fumana is carefully distributed across 14 bands (roughly a Major 7th) with additional lowpass and highpass filters on first and last bands
I thought that the Fumana frequency distribution was based on a Besel function.
Well... I did misspeak about the Major 7th, which is between odd bands (& even bands), not adjecent bands. But otherwise, not sure if we’re talking about two different things amounting to the same?

From the manual:
Each of the two filter array is based on 16 parallel analog bandpass filters. The main filter bands from 2 to 15 are mainly based on Bessel calculation, while bands 1 and 16 are respectively a lowpass and highpass with a custom method to obtain better musical results. All bands on the main filter array use an 8th order slope (48dB/oct).

The modulation filter array, instead, uses a 6th order slope (36dB/oct), and an additional stage to compensate each band's energy. The calculation method used was optimized for this specific purpose.

The crossover frequency between each filter from band 2 to 15 is an approximation of an interval of ~5.5 semitones, or 11/24 of octave. This results in a distance between odd band (and also between each even band) ~11 semitones, 11/12 of octave, or a Major 7th. The ratio is defined in order to limit the chance to obtain a recursive tone emphasis/attenuation over the whole audio spectrum. First and last bands, instead, are calculated in order to achieve the best regulation of “sub-bass” and “upper-end”.

The filters are designed to guarantee the flattest frequency response on the ALL output. In fact its response is within ±1.5 dB from band 2 to 15, and globally between ±4.5 dB. This achievement translates in a extremely transparent filter.
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Post by -S.L- » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:43 pm

hmmmm, after a close look, it seems that the Fumana is the winner afterall. :hmm:

I prefer the Verbos's design thou but I'm not buying a module for its look :yay:

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Post by Ears » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:01 pm

-S.L- wrote:hmmmm, after a close look, it seems that the Fumana is the winner afterall. :hmm:

I prefer the Verbos's design thou but I'm not buying a module for its look :yay:
My fumana turned me into a die hard Frap fan. The sound is really so spot on. There’s a level of quality in all their products that just makes me very happy.

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Post by kay_k » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:44 am

You guys are to blame for me buying a Bark Filter.


Not really, I actually wanted it since I first tried one - but you reminded me :ripbanana:

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Post by zvukoprocessor » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:38 am

I have tried both and can confirm that Verbos Bark Filter is more like a Stratocaster from the 60s and Frap Tools Fumana is more like 7string Ibanez. Both are electric guitars but have VERY different sound.
I personally more into Verbos sound but not always, Fumana sounds great as a vocoder and I mean really great.
For precision get Fumana. For vintage sound get Bark (you’ll need two if you want to attempt to patch a vocoder with it)

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Post by -S.L- » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:54 am

well I'm not into vocoder at all, althou it could come handy maybe.
The fumana has 2 outs (if I understood well, odd and even), that's also quite some extra feature in my opinion that the Verbos doesn't.

I've check some demo on Youtube (Fumana with DivKid & Verbos with LearningModular), it's hard to judge only on these, but the sound of the verbos seems more appealing to me, the Fumana seems "too clean", but it has many feature that the Verbos doesn't have, makes it impossible to ignore.

Damn.... :bang:

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Post by de_raaf » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:05 pm

Love fumana, never tried verbos, the modulation function on fumana is not alone for typical voice vocoding, it lends for a lot of other great uses etc, with a switch before like the joranaloge switch 4 its great to switch different stuff in to the audio and modulation, that how I use it a lot for playing live, easily to switch how it fucktions etc

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Post by Portabella » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:27 pm

zvukoprocessor wrote:I have tried both and can confirm that Verbos Bark Filter is more like a Stratocaster from the 60s and Frap Tools Fumana is more like 7string Ibanez. Both are electric guitars but have VERY different sound.
I personally more into Verbos sound but not always, Fumana sounds great as a vocoder and I mean really great.
For precision get Fumana. For vintage sound get Bark (you’ll need two if you want to attempt to patch a vocoder with it)
Pretty spot on description.. that's why you find the Verbos in my rack.
But if you do lots of vocoding and precise EQ stuff the Furmana wins hands down. If you just want an interesting sounding sound-design tool get the Verbos and save some funds and HP

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Post by breadman » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:03 pm

Anyone out there actually rocking two Bark Filters? If so, what do you do for a living and how do I apply?
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Post by -S.L- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:33 am

in the end of the day, I choosed the Verbos, got a pretty good second hand deal, almost half the price of a brand new Fumana.

since i'm not planning to use a vocoder anytime soon, and I love the Harmonic Oscillator from Verbos too (which I have) ,it match on the sounds and design as well nicely :tu:

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Post by Voggg » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:53 am

Bark should be coming in the mail today. I love the VHO too much to not own this.

I hadn't heard of the Fumana. It seems really interesting but that's a lot of panel space and expense for things I would usually prefer to do with software (although being able to use CV is always appealing). I'm curious to hear how people use it in their racks.

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