Prok Drum modules

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Thonk Support
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Post by Thonk Support » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:31 am

Glad you like it! the Vogel kicks are great and his SN are :deadbanana:
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Post by Treibstoff » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:49 am

Monobass wrote:Glad you like it! the Vogel kicks are great and his SN are :deadbanana:
ok SD Card 16GB is working now.where can i found the 808/909 like stock kicks ? i found a First SD Card soundbank release Feb18 but they sound different ? more FX like ?

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Post by Thonk Support » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:02 am

For the stock stuff you can always just reboot without the card in, but also there are some other packs linked down the page here - https://github.com/Normalised/ProkDrumsEditor

We are looking at a better solution longer term for people to share presets.
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AS of October 2020 this account which used to go by the name of Monobass is now manned by various staff at Thonk.

Treibstoff
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Post by Treibstoff » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:12 am

Monobass wrote:For the stock stuff you can always just reboot without the card in, but also there are some other packs linked down the page here - https://github.com/Normalised/ProkDrumsEditor

We are looking at a better solution longer term for people to share presets.
ok easy thanks. patch sharing would be great :)

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Post by Treibstoff » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:18 am

one thing i really dont like is the position of the micro usb slot. i want to connect my module permantly in the rack but i dont find any usb cable that fits in my doepfer one row rack.

anyone with a cable solution here ?

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Post by Bartelby » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:09 pm

I’ve built a usb module. I designed some adapters and had them made:
Image

All four modules connect, the hub is bus powered.
Image

I’ve been working on a refined version for a while, but real life has got in the way...

Treibstoff
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Post by Treibstoff » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:38 am

Bartelby wrote:I’ve built a usb module. I designed some adapters and had them made:

All four modules connect, the hub is bus powered.

I’ve been working on a refined version for a while, but real life has got in the way...
ok, this looks definately interesting. i have ordered these µUSB female pins to solder my own ones. i just need the big USBs for the other side. do you have scheme how i connect both plugs together?

Image

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File management of Prok drum presets

Post by mickglossop » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:59 am

Hi - I have BD, SN & HH and they sound great. I'm very pleased with the wide variation of sounds available.

However, the file management, as 'explained' in the Prok Drum Editor manual is somewhat unclear. As I understand it:

Load Bank - loads the contents of a hard drive folder into the 16 quads in the editor.

Save Bank - I presumed that this should do the opposite of Load Bank, i.e. save the contents of the 16 quads to 16 preset files to a location on your hard drive. This doesn't seem to happen. It asks me to select a folder, and allows me to create a new folder if I want, but doesn't save the 16 files into it.

Save To - Saves the current contents of the editor's buffer to a quad in the editor and the module's internal memory (or a preset file on the SD card if present).

Select Folder - allows you to load the contents of a folder into a list on the left of the editor window. Clicking on a preset from the list loads in into the editor's memory, but not into the Prok module's memory. You can only clear the list by attempting to load a set pf presets from a different type of Prok module, i.e. not the type you're currently accessing, SN instead of BD for example.

Save Preset - Hitting this button adds a preset name to the list on the left. Upon inspection of my file system, it seems that this command also adds a new preset to the last accessed folder. There seems to be no way to control this function.

During the course of experimenting with Save Preset, the Editor froze. I tried re-starting my Mac Pro, re-installing the editor application but it whenever I run it now, it opens up with the normal page showing my 3 Prok modules, but the editor won't open.

MacPro 12-core, Yosemite (OSX 10.12).

Any ideas please, Monobass?

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Post by a773 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:01 pm

MDK wrote: Still no ETA on the update though.
How about now, any news on the new firmware?

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Post by Treibstoff » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:44 am

everybody who is still looking for the right USB Cable which fits in closed cases like the Doepfer standard case, i found very good ones at AliExpress in China. They are available at Amazon too but costs more and will be delivered from china too. They work perfect, has the right sight flat size and the cable are avaible in different lengh. The right ones are the A1-C2 Type so be careful which one you order.



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Post by Noodle Twister » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:13 am

So I was adding the 2 pin male header's to the Teensy last which would of made the pins slanted compared to the rest.

By carefully whittling some of the plastic away on the adjacent header with a stanley knife the two pin goes in and is aligned nice and straight.

Just be careful and patient with the Teensy headers. It's the most fiddly part of the build imo.

Great module(s) though.
:sb:

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Post by bemushroomed » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:06 am

Any builders here on the forum (EU) that makes and sell these? PM me if so.

Checked reverb, sales section here...

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Post by bemushroomed » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:30 am

Ok, so i found a builder. He does say he's not completely happy with these modules though, that there are slight digital artifacts (or a hissing in the sound, that you can also hear in the Prok drum demo video, at the end of each sound).

Edit: took a listen.. yeah there's some slight hissing which is clearly audible with headphones, it doesn't sound super nice tbh.. not a problem unless the drum is playing on its own, it will not be audible with other sounds playing as well.

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Post by bemushroomed » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:54 pm

in case someone's interested.. here's a latency test (i tend to do these for all drum modules)

Image

various bassdrum samples on disting and bitbox (no quiet part in the beginning of the samples ofc, i'm very anal about that.) same trigger for all modules.

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Post by Gringo Starr » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:31 pm

bemushroomed wrote:in case someone's interested.. here's a latency test (i tend to do these for all drum modules)

Image

various bassdrum samples on disting and bitbox (no quiet part in the beginning of the samples ofc, i'm very anal about that.) same trigger for all modules.
Less than .005 seconds. I assume that’s not noticeable? Or is it?

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Post by bemushroomed » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Gringo Starr wrote: Less than .005 seconds. I assume that’s not noticeable? Or is it?
perhaps against an analog module, let's say you want to use Prok + an analog drum module to fatten up the kick, then there might be a slight flam effect to the sound. might test it against an analog module later to see what kind of latency there is.

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Post by miminashi » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:12 pm

bemushroomed, thanks for the post. I'd love to see a track with the trigger signal, maybe even a measure of 16th notes to see how much jitter there is. If there's considerable jitter, it's possible the captures you posted are best case for the Bitbox and worst case for the other two modules. Still, that looks encouraging for the Bitbox. ~5ms is definitely a bit too much delay for my tastes.

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Post by bemushroomed » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:35 pm

miminashi wrote:bemushroomed, thanks for the post. I'd love to see a track with the trigger signal, maybe even a measure of 16th notes to see how much jitter there is. If there's considerable jitter, it's possible the captures you posted are best case for the Bitbox and worst case for the other two modules. Still, that looks encouraging for the Bitbox. ~5ms is definitely a bit too much delay for my tastes.
I sampled at many various places ofcourse, it looks the same.

I doubt there's much, if any, jitter with modular, this is not midi after all.

also the bitbox obviously does not have 0 latency, i use the bitbox as a reference for the other modules since it was the module with the least latency, so it does not say anything about the overall latency for any of the modules, its just a comparison between fastest and slowest of these.


Edit: i can do it again with the trigger signal as the reference.. here:

Image

for me personally the latency is not a big deal since i use other digital modules for drums as well. if i used mainly analog drums then perhaps the drum track wouldn't sound super tight with the Prok..

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Post by miminashi » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:26 pm

Awesome, thanks for the update.
bemushroomed wrote:I doubt there's much, if any, jitter with modular, this is not midi after all.
Actually, there is jitter evident just between your two posts. In the first capture there's ~4ms between the Bitbox and the Prok, but in the second there's < 2ms. So one or both of those modules exhibits some jitter.

Jitter is not a MIDI vs "modular" issue. It's a result of how digital audio is processed, typically in small buffers of samples. With digital modules, unless the developer intentionally compensates for it, there will almost certainly be jitter proportional to the size of the processing buffer. It's common for modules to operate at 44.1kHz with a buffer of 128 samples, which means you should expect ~3ms of jitter (128/44.1 = 2.9ms).

It would would be great if makers would post latency and jitter specs for their modules, but I guess it's not important or noticeable to most people.

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Post by bemushroomed » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:43 am

ah i see, you're probably right about digital jitter..

I wonder how e.g TipTop One compares (in reality, not on paper) to these modules.. they claim 0.25 latency which sounds kind of incredible..

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Post by MDK » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:05 pm

The new firmware (which has seen succesful testing and will be ready in the next month or two HOPEFULLY) has better / consistent latency compared to the existing one.

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Post by MDK » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm

miminashi wrote: Jitter is not a MIDI vs "modular" issue. It's a result of how digital audio is processed, typically in small buffers of samples. With digital modules, unless the developer intentionally compensates for it, there will almost certainly be jitter proportional to the size of the processing buffer. It's common for modules to operate at 44.1kHz with a buffer of 128 samples, which means you should expect ~3ms of jitter (128/44.1 = 2.9ms).
This is exactly right. We aim to keep our buffer sizes as small as possible, but the smaller the buffer the more CPU is required because more time is dedicated to overhead and context switching.

The jitter on the existing firmware is more noticeable because of the way that the interrupt from the trigger CV is handled. In the new firmware we now execute the envelope retriggers in the interrupt so that they will always be handled in the next audio block, rather than handling them with all the other non-audio code like CV, display update etc.

For the original firmware the buffers i'm pretty sure are :

Kick : 48
Snare : 80
Hat : 64
Clap : 96

For the new firmware they will probably be :

Kick / HiHat : 32
Snare : 48
Clap : 64

But of course this might change.

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Prok buid trouble shooting

Post by EmileBehr » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:01 am

Hi there guys

My apologies for this message but I have just finished building my Prok BD and unfortunately I'm not getting the full signal out of the module, just a very faint sound when I push my mixer gain up.

The module turns on with the leds displaying the boot sequence and showing triggers and cv received. The module gets recognised by the software as well.

I bought the HH module as well and thought it might be a faulty ICs and swapped them with the same results. I have looked for cold solder joints and did a quick re-flow on all the points on the pcb as well as checking the entire build doc to see if the placement of all the components are correct and everything checked out.

I then built the other prok module and swapped the first (faulty) module's control board and tried it with the newly built bottom board and it works with both teensy micro controllers, which led me to believe that it's the bottom board where the TL072 resides. I tested if the IC was receiving power and it is.

I then swapped the ICs of the two bottom boards and all the ICs work fine as well. I also tested the voltage regulator and I'm getting the correct readings which leads me to believe the component is still in working order.

I am also getting continuity between pin 1 of the TL072 and 56K resistor right next to the IC which I'm not getting from the working bottom pcb.



I managed to get more gain out the signal by carefully pressing the tip of my patch cable to the output point of the 074 chip, so there is signal, just not amplified enough.

What could be causing this and please can you give me any additional help or info you guys might have.

Much respect
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continuity between pin 1 of the TL072 and 56K resistor
continuity between pin 1 of the TL072 and 56K resistor
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Post by bemushroomed » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:34 pm

MDK wrote:The new firmware (which has seen succesful testing and will be ready in the next month or two HOPEFULLY) has better / consistent latency compared to the existing one.
can't wait, I really like the BD, just ordered the SN.

I do wish that it would instantly load (at power up) the last custom patch instead of having to remember to hold the button. How would that even work if you have all the modules and you would have to hold down the button on every one..

It would be better if hold button loaded the default firmware, if you have uploaded a custom patch, its better to assume that's the one the user wants. Make the default downloadable as a patch in case someone wants it back as default :)

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Post by StutzJr » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:48 am

Does anybody have any details on the signal specifics for the Prok Drums trigger input? The Thonk website states "Trigger the sound on a rising edge."

I am seeing a little inconsistency on some modules being able to trigger the Prok drums when many others can. I have full reliability using Shakmat Knights Gallop, Mutable Branches and Disting IV (Clockable LFO), however I am getting intermittent success using the burst output from Instruo Ceis, and I am unable to get reliable triggering from Befaco Rampage without first going through an Attunuverter / VCA. I didn't post this earlier as I thought it was a power supply issue, but now that I've rebuilt my power bus I am still having this issue.

Or is it even an issue? Should I always pass an analog trigger through a buffer/attenuverter/VCA when triggering Prok Drums?

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