Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

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Xzxz7
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Xzxz7 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:37 pm

fluid_movement wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:05 pm
mongrol wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 am
fluid_movement wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:03 am
Im having problems with MIDI, specifically syncing the Performer with my Digitakt and getting Note info from my Keystep.

Digitakt:
Performer is set to USB RX and TX in the clock menu, Digitakt is set to USB MIDI. What i expect is to press play on one of the devices and the other one to start in sync. Is this possible?


Keystep:
Ive tried connecting the keystep via usb too, sending note data doesnt work. It does however power it, and if i set "CV/Gate Input" on the project page i can play the current track by sending cv from the Keystep. I would rather send i via MIDI though, to keep the cv channels free if possible. I have a Midi TRS to DIn MIDI adapter, but i suspect its the wrong format because sending MIDI doesnt work here either

Anyone have any experience with this?
Cheers!
Digitakt yes. Keystep USB isn’t compatible. Din works though so perhaps your trs is wrong. Which one is it?
I still havent been able to sync the Digitakt and Performer.
On the Performer i have MIDI and USB Rs and Tx enabled, ive tried setting it to all three modes (Auto/Master/Slave).
On the Digitakt i haveClock send and receive enabled in the Midi Sync settings, in the ports setting i have "output to" set to MIDI and USB.

Am i doing something wrong? Is there a way for me to test if the usb port on the performer is actually working?
hey mate

did u manage to solve ur problem? if so what was the solution? :)

Cedre
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Cedre » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am

try with a TRS cable type A

Xzxz7
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Xzxz7 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:06 am

Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am
try with a TRS cable type A
thx! since I can't find anything on the internet: it should be possible to clock the Westlicht via midi cable from the elektron model: samples, right? if so which cable is necessary?

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Cedre » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:11 am

Xzxz7 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:06 am
Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am
try with a TRS cable type A
thx! since I can't find anything on the internet: it should be possible to clock the Westlicht via midi cable from the elektron model: samples, right? if so which cable is necessary?
MIDI TRS cable type A

Xzxz7
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Xzxz7 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:29 am

Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:11 am
Xzxz7 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:06 am
Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am
try with a TRS cable type A
thx! since I can't find anything on the internet: it should be possible to clock the Westlicht via midi cable from the elektron model: samples, right? if so which cable is necessary?
MIDI TRS cable type A
thanks :)

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fluid_movement
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by fluid_movement » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:02 pm

Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am
try with a TRS cable type A
This was the solution. I just ordered a Type A adapter and it worked :) Instant sync over MIDI. I got mine from pusherman, Type A adapters are surprisingly hard to find!

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by escargot » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:49 am

Can the performer be used as cv to midi pass thru converter? You probably can record cv and play it to midi but I can’t find any mention of real time playing of cv to midi.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by sneak-thief » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:22 am

fluid_movement wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:02 pm
Cedre wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:25 am
try with a TRS cable type A
This was the solution. I just ordered a Type A adapter and it worked :) Instant sync over MIDI. I got mine from pusherman, Type A adapters are surprisingly hard to find!
Type A cables are available at all the usual places:

https://schneidersladen.de/de/make-nois ... or-0-coast

3 pack:
https://www.thomann.de/de/befaco_trs_midi_cable_a.htm
https://www.musicstore.com/en_OE/EUR/Be ... 007690-000
http://involucija.org - post-industrial euphoric deprogramming. LP coming soon on a+w.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by bonzai » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Bachelard wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:28 pm
bonzai wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:35 pm
Hey guys,
I was wondering if the performer can also do transposition of a whole pattern, similar to the bsp? Have not yet found that yet...
What I found out is that you can shift-select single or multiple notes and transpose them via the encoder (which is nice, but not really what i am looking for), but the whole pattern at once?!
Oh, absolutely, you can route one of the CV inputs (or the output of another track) to modulate the transposition of a track. You can set the minimum and maximum transposition range too (-12 to +12).

In fact, you can set either the Transposition or Root Note of a track as a modulation target for transposition. Hope this helps.
Thanks, think I now figured it out, works with MIDI in, too! I am now able to transpose/change the root note via MIDI keyboard, nice :)
Spare track set to MIDI/CV -> Routing page -> Target: root note of track 1, Source: MIDI, Note C3, Range 12.
Dunno, maybe I am thinking too complicated?

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by dip_registered » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:29 am

Are there more shapes than this in the current firmware? Does anyone know? Or is that the total shapes list on the steps page?
2FDED515-7BB2-4210-A83F-D36208805DD5.jpeg
Thanks!
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:17 pm

Hi, I have a question about song mode… how do you use it with several patterns that have different lengths?
For example, if I have 3 patterns: one with 16 steps, another with 32 steps, and another with 64 steps? I already enter the appropriate value on the "N" column, so 16 steps is 1 on N, 32 is 2 and 64 is 4.
Problem is that some pattern don't start at the first step… anyone can help me?

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Bachelard » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:15 pm

Hales wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Hi, I have a question about song mode… how do you use it with several patterns that have different lengths?
For example, if I have 3 patterns: one with 16 steps, another with 32 steps, and another with 64 steps? I already enter the appropriate value on the "N" column, so 16 steps is 1 on N, 32 is 2 and 64 is 4.
Problem is that some pattern don't start at the first step… anyone can help me?
Are your tracks all in Aligned or Free mode (sounds like you want them to be Aligned)? Did you accidentally set the Start step of a sequence not on step 1, or have some modulation routing? You can also reset the sequences during playback by pressing Shift + Play.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:20 am

Bachelard wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:15 pm
Hales wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Hi, I have a question about song mode… how do you use it with several patterns that have different lengths?
For example, if I have 3 patterns: one with 16 steps, another with 32 steps, and another with 64 steps? I already enter the appropriate value on the "N" column, so 16 steps is 1 on N, 32 is 2 and 64 is 4.
Problem is that some pattern don't start at the first step… anyone can help me?
Are your tracks all in Aligned or Free mode (sounds like you want them to be Aligned)? Did you accidentally set the Start step of a sequence not on step 1, or have some modulation routing? You can also reset the sequences during playback by pressing Shift + Play.
Yes all tracks are aligned. Also I don't have any modulation routing. I noticed that it play well when the total "N" are a 4 multiple. For instance if the addition of "N" equal 6, some tracks doesn't start at step 1. If it's 8 it's ok.
Could it also be that I have other tracks that don't have the same length?

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Lokua
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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Lokua » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:47 am

Hales wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:20 am
Yes all tracks are aligned. Also I don't have any modulation routing. I noticed that it play well when the total "N" are a 4 multiple. For instance if the addition of "N" equal 6, some tracks doesn't start at step 1. If it's 8 it's ok.
Could it also be that I have other tracks that don't have the same length?
Well yes, or ... sort of. Keep in mind that the N column in song mode represents measures, not how many times the pattern plays.

Code: Select all

# N T1 T2 ...
1 1 P1 P1 ...
2 1 P1 P1 ...
If T1 = 16 steps and T2 = 32, when the song goes to #2, T1 will indeed start at the 1, but T2 will actually proceed from step 17. That might make things easier to understand. If it wasn't this way then you couldn't do proper polymetric sequencing with song mode. You have a couple options to work with: One is to find the least common multiple of all the track lengths and set N accordingly. So in the example above N should be 2, because 32 is the least common multiple of all the track lengths. If you instead just want the pattern to hard reset, you can use that tracks reset setting located on the Seq page, so if T1=6 steps and T2=16 you could set T1 reset to 1 bar.

Hope I explained that correctly.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:08 am

Well yes, or ... sort of. Keep in mind that the N column in song mode represents measures, not how many times the pattern plays.

Code: Select all

# N T1 T2 ...
1 1 P1 P1 ...
2 1 P1 P1 ...
If T1 = 16 steps and T2 = 32, when the song goes to #2, T1 will indeed start at the 1, but T2 will actually proceed from step 17. That might make things easier to understand. If it wasn't this way then you couldn't do proper polymetric sequencing with song mode. You have a couple options to work with: One is to find the least common multiple of all the track lengths and set N accordingly. So in the example above N should be 2, because 32 is the least common multiple of all the track lengths. If you instead just want the pattern to hard reset, you can use that tracks reset setting located on the Seq page, so if T1=6 steps and T2=16 you could set T1 reset to 1 bar.

Hope I explained that correctly.
This is what I began to deduce from my experiments, thanks Lokua, I will practice later to master these parameters. :hail:

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:50 pm

After several tries, I still have difficulty understanding how it works.

So to summarize and keep it simple, all my tracks have the same lenghts.
P1 = 32 steps
P2 = 32 steps
P4 = 64 steps

//no problem with these combinations:
# N T1
1 2 P1
2 2 P2
3 4 P4

or:
# N T1
1 6 P1
2 2 P2
3 4 P4

//problem with that combination:
# N T1
1 4 P1
2 2 P2
3 4 P4

… problem is that #3 (P4) never begin at the step 1, it begins at step 33. #2 always begin at step 1. :bang:

any idea? thanks for your help!

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:08 pm

Well, I think I'm trying to understand: the measures add up to each other.
so for my problem above, P4 begins at step 32 because the total of measures above is 6, it will begin at step 1 if total measures above is a 4 multiple. Is that correct?
Phew if it's that, it's very complicated to construct a track without a calculator…

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Lokua » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:14 am

Hales wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:08 pm
Well, I think I'm trying to understand: the measures add up to each other.
so for my problem above, P4 begins at step 32 because the total of measures above is 6, it will begin at step 1 if total measures above is a 4 multiple. Is that correct?
Phew if it's that, it's very complicated to construct a track without a calculator…
Yeah that seems correct and haha yep, might need a calculator - but I caution you - modular synths are sexy enough as is without throwing a calculator in the mix :hihi:

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Hales » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:10 am

Yes, my goal is to write an entire track on performer and I expected to have as much flexibility as on Live.
Maybe I should try recording the midi in Live, but I wish I could do it in the performer…

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Bachelard » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:38 pm

Inspired by Doug Lynner (and others) doing audio-rate-clocking of Serge and other analog sequencers, here is the Westlicht as a bunch of lo-fi oscillators.



@Hales - how did your song work out? The Performer is flexible, but not in the same way that Live is. I'd say that if you aren't doing it just as a proof of concept, choose whichever tool is easier to make your song. Life's too short to try and make a hardware sequencer work like a DAW, because it just never can.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Kattefjaes » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:06 pm

Argh, either I've found a nasty bug, or the way that conditionals work differ from the Elektron sequencers in a way that isn't clear from the manuals.

I just set up a pattern (t1 p3 as it goes) with conditionals on the last four steps for 4:4, so I'd get a little run every four times around. I built a simple song where some other unrelated patterns played, and then played p3 four times. It works like a charm when in pattern editing mode.

t1p3.jpg

However, it doesn't behave itself properly in a song. Here are the first four steps of the song, not mentioning p3 at all:

firsthalfseq.jpg

Here's the second set of four steps, likewise, no mention of p3 (unless I'm losing my mind):

secondhalfseq.jpg

Finally, here's the ninth and final step, which invokes p3 four times:

step9.jpg

The first time through the song, the conditional steps triggered on the third iteration of p3. On the second time through, it triggered on the second. On the third it triggered on first. On the fourth loop of the song, it triggered on the fourth. This continues in a deterministic manner if you leave the song running.

This is.. weird. I checked through the (short) song, nothing else was triggering t1 p3, or indeed p3 on another track. The only instance of that pattern was on step 9, which was:

9 4 P3 P3 P3 P3 P3 P3 P3 P3 P3

Am I missing something obvious, or is this not meant to happen? It feels like an off-by-one error somewhere perhaps- it's triggering every three iterations rather than four.

If I am totally failing to grasp how this works on Performer, how would I set this song up so that the run of conditionals in t1 p3 always triggered on the fourth time the step 9 played the pattern? HALP!

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Kattefjaes » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:29 pm

OK, it's really feeling like an off-by-one. I had a hunch, and set the condition on the four steps to be 5:5. When I did that, the run always occurred on the same iteration of the pattern, it didn't "slide" through the set of four.

I stopped the playback and the song playback (with the play/rec button and f5 respectively), which seems to reset the iteration number- and the run always hit on the fourth playthrough- while it's set to 5:5. I suspect that this indicates some off-by-one shenans with the X:Y iteration counting in song mode! The conditions behaved like a 4:4 and played nicely in the song.

TLDR; The 5:5 condition behaved like a 4:4 and played nicely in the song, so there's something odd there.
Last edited by Kattefjaes on Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by rayultine » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:28 pm

good troubleshooting Kattefjaes. Have you posted this on the github? Simon is pretty responsive to detailed bug reports.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Kattefjaes » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:40 pm

I sure did- the post here was a cut'n'paste of the bug report that I wrote there.

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Re: Westlicht PER|FORMER Sequencer (DIY)

Post by Lokua » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:00 pm

Not looking at the code or the issue, but if each N represented 1 bar, and cond: 4:4 essentially means "4th bar", the 8th song slot goes to N 21, so it makes sense that you hear the conditional trigger on the third rep of slot 9 because that's bar 24. Aligned mode means things happen as if that is what's been playing all along. It picks up relative to the first tick since start. At least that's what I think is happening, and that's based on the assumption that all the patterns are one bar. Too lazy to do the math I might be wrong, but it seems logical, although perhaps not ideal.

Edit: again I was just thinking out loud and assuming stuff. Does this happen in the non-aligned mode, too (forgot what it's called)?

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