DivKid Mutes

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe., lisa

Post Reply
User avatar
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4565
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re:

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:57 am

Just another rookie wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:19 am
On the subject of switches top or bottom.....
I like the momentary to trigger as a push with a finger, not a flick of the thumb! So left hand side is upside down, right hand side is right way up.
It’s a more natural tapping motion I guess?
There's nothing in the design stopping you from building it 'backwards' to get the switch direction you want. Electrons don't care which side of the board they're on. You *will* have to sort which wire goes in which hole to be sure the circuit stays the same. And you might need plastic washer spacers under the nuts. But putting the vactrols on the other side of the PCB and some other parts to match, it can be done. Side benefit is the panel will no longer read upside down. Due to the mounting screws being reversed, you'll be seeing the blank back side outermost!
--------------
@jfprimeau- Please post the schematics befaco sent you. Ben already said he was OK with them being public earlier in the thread, and both he and Befaco have not responded to multiple follow-ups.
--------------
@Wilton Yes, the ON-OFF-(ON) switches can be sticky moving from OFF to (ON). The lesser quality switches from off brands make this more likely due to both lower quality control -of the contact plate inside- to begin with, but moreso due to not having the same amount of red epoxy on the switch pins and sometimes lesser quality case material. This epoxy keeps the pins in place better during soldering, and the better case material is less affected by heat.

Using a name brand like C&K here will be a very good choice. Be sure to check *every* switch a hundred or so times before soldering. Even the better brands still sometimes have problems. FWIW, all toggle switches have a choice of three different moving part contact plates. The one of the three that is used to attain a (momentary) switch position is the one most likely to stick. The normal plate and the one used for ON-ON-ON type toggles are not as prone to this.

But all of them are affected by case or pin movement caused by soldering heat. And this is more likely with off brands for reasons shared above.

Cheap switches on a performance control is a poor choice.

Disclaimer: I don't know what switches the kits and assembled modules ship with. I do know this is *not* the place for cheap switches.

User avatar
pieter
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1779
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:59 pm
Location: UK

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by pieter » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:46 am

megarat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:00 pm
soon_come wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:30 pm
Thanks for the quick confirmation. I know of plenty of passive circuits which utilize vactrols, so I don't think that's a hard reason, but it's good to know this absolutely requires power.
Interesting. Vactrols use light, which require power, so I'm curious about how a passive circuit with vactrols would work. I wonder if they get their necessary power from the voltage in the input signal.
The voltage that you send into the passive module via a patch cable can supply the power to the LED in the vactrol. If you set up a potential difference across the LED it will light up. If the resistor part of the vactrol is also part of a passive circuit then no external power is required for the module.

User avatar
soon_come
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:50 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by soon_come » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:40 am

Thanks for confirming, I appreciate that!

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:05 am

pieter wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:46 am
The voltage that you send into the passive module via a patch cable can supply the power to the LED in the vactrol. If you set up a potential difference across the LED it will light up. If the resistor part of the vactrol is also part of a passive circuit then no external power is required for the module.
Thanks for the information, it’s much appreciated.

orbita
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:00 am
Location: London

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by orbita » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:45 am

Interested in comparison between this and the happy nerding mutes (and potentially noise engineering muta jovis).

The momentary toggle on the divkids seems useful but I get the impression that the buttons on the happy nerding would be more playable - easier to mash 2 or three at the same time on and off. Also more visible to see when they are switched with the colour change.

Anyone got both and prefer one over the other?

Cheers, Tom

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:28 pm

orbita wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:45 am
Interested in comparison between this and the happy nerding mutes (and potentially noise engineering muta jovis).

The momentary toggle on the divkids seems useful but I get the impression that the buttons on the happy nerding would be more playable - easier to mash 2 or three at the same time on and off. Also more visible to see when they are switched with the colour change.

Anyone got both and prefer one over the other?

Cheers, Tom
I have owned both, and black faceplate aside, I prefer the Befaco/DivKid version. First, I want to say that I love Igor’s modules with Happy Nerding. I have at least eight HN modules in my rack, five of which I regard as indispensable. His ideas are well thought out and occasionally ingenious. But the 4x Mute came up short for me. I felt that the profile of the buttons was too low and that they didn’t give as rock-solid feedback as I would have preferred. Also, the PCB isn’t mounted to the top part of the faceplate — the faceplate is only held on by the nuts fixing the jacks to the lower part of the faceplate — so I could feel the PCB flex slightly whenever I pressed the top two buttons. This seems like a design flaw to me, as it potentially compromises the module’s robustness as a performance instrument (i.e., the flexing PCB could eventually result in a broken solder connection) and I felt like I had to be delicate with it. (Not to mention that this slightly worsened the feedback of the top buttons, as the flex of the PCB makes you press harder to activate the buttons.) So this killed my joy for using it.

To my experience, the Befaco/DivKid Mutes are rock solid, and the switches are a pleasure to use. (Some have complained about switch quality, however. More details in this thread.) Place the module at the left edge of your performance rack, and move the switches with the thumb of your left hand. It’s totally slick. I do wish that the switches were on the bottom, with the jacks at the top, but I guess you can’t have everything. And since you mention lights, note that the Mutes has LEDs as well to indicate a channel‘s mute status, which you can also easily distinguish (visually and especially tactilely) by the position of the switch. The Mutes’s LEDs aren’t as lovely as the big lighted buttons on the 4x Mute, but the 4x Mute needs those lights to indicate mute status, as those low-profile buttons are single-position and you can’t determine their mute status otherwise.

So I still have the Mutes, but I sold the 4x Mute. And all of that said, I’m currently favoring the Doepfer A-182-2 quad switch for this sort of work. I vastly prefer the interface of Mutes, as it’s much more immediate and performance-based, but I like that The A-182-2 can mute/route signals to different destinations so easily, and I tend to use the routing more than the strict muting. (Mutes has normalled inputs, so it can route a single signal to different destination if you patch it properly, but the A-182-2 was built for this. If only its switches were bigger.)
Last edited by megarat on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
soon_come
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:50 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by soon_come » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:34 pm

To echo some of these sentiments, I think the Mutes feels really good for performance in general. The only button I've found that feels as good is the Trogotronic push button, and it's certainly different (and not vactrol-y). I will say that the four switches on mine do not all feel the same as each other in practice, which does lead me to wonder about quality control / if someone really did try to make sure the switches were well-matched on each unit.

User avatar
mosorensen
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:19 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by mosorensen » Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:16 pm

megarat wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:28 pm
I do wish that the switches were on the bottom, with the jacks at the top, but I guess you can’t have everything.
I tend to mount mine upside down for this reason. Indeed, you CAN have everything ... ;)

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:26 pm

mosorensen wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:16 pm
I tend to mount mine upside down for this reason. Indeed, you CAN have everything ... ;)
Ah, but then the switches would operate in the other direction, and I much prefer their current orientation so I can use them easily with my left hand.

I suppose if I had built mine as a DIY kit, and if I had the proper foresight, I could’ve installed the switches the other way around — to obtain left-handed operation while upside down — but I received mine pre-built, and I’m (mostly) fine with it as is.

User avatar
MvK
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:46 am
Location: Berlin

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by MvK » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:55 am

the switches on the mutes are among the best I've used.

orbita
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:00 am
Location: London

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by orbita » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:40 am

megarat wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:28 pm
orbita wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:45 am
Interested in comparison between this and the happy nerding mutes (and potentially noise engineering muta jovis).

The momentary toggle on the divkids seems useful but I get the impression that the buttons on the happy nerding would be more playable - easier to mash 2 or three at the same time on and off. Also more visible to see when they are switched with the colour change.

Anyone got both and prefer one over the other?

Cheers, Tom
I have owned both, and black faceplate aside, I prefer the Befaco/DivKid version. First, I want to say that I love Igor’s modules with Happy Nerding. I have at least eight HN modules in my rack, five of which I regard as indispensable. His ideas are well thought out and occasionally ingenious. But the 4x Mute came up short for me. I felt that the profile of the buttons was too low and that they didn’t give as rock-solid feedback as I would have preferred. Also, the PCB isn’t mounted to the top part of the faceplate — the faceplate is only held on by the nuts fixing the jacks to the lower part of the faceplate — so I could feel the PCB flex slightly whenever I pressed the top two buttons. This seems like a design flaw to me, as it potentially compromises the module’s robustness as a performance instrument (i.e., the flexing PCB could eventually result in a broken solder connection) and I felt like I had to be delicate with it. (Not to mention that this slightly worsened the feedback of the top buttons, as the flex of the PCB makes you press harder to activate the buttons.) So this killed my joy for using it.

To my experience, the Befaco/DivKid Mutes are rock solid, and the switches are a pleasure to use. (Some have complained about switch quality, however. More details in this thread.) Place the module at the left edge of your performance rack, and move the switches with the thumb of your left hand. It’s totally slick. I do wish that the switches were on the bottom, with the jacks at the top, but I guess you can’t have everything. And since you mention lights, note that the Mutes has LEDs as well to indicate a channel‘s mute status, which you can also easily distinguish (visually and especially tactilely) by the position of the switch. The Mutes’s LEDs aren’t as lovely as the big lighted buttons on the 4x Mute, but the 4x Mute needs those lights to indicate mute status, as those low-profile buttons are single-position and you can’t determine their mute status otherwise.

So I still have the Mutes, but I sold the 4x Mute. And all of that said, I’m currently favoring the Doepfer A-182-2 quad switch for this sort of work. I vastly prefer the interface of Mutes, as it’s much more immediate and performance-based, but I like that The A-182-2 can mute/route signals to different destinations so easily, and I tend to use the routing more than the strict muting. (Mutes has normalled inputs, so it can route a single signal to different destination if you patch it properly, but the A-182-2 was built for this. If only its switches were bigger.)
Cheers for the detailed description. I actually have the A182-2 - I really like it - it's low hp and great routing potential. The downside slightly is when trying to mute and unmute 2 of them at the same time. It's possible on 2 beside each other but easy to go past to the other side of switch - maybe I just need more practice ! But if they are on the other row it's kind of impossible. Maybe if I have 2 beside each other and arrange them thoughtfully I can get what i'm after. no LEDs but it's not critical. They are certainly more flexible than the mute only options.
Was also looking at the push button Muton and A150-8 for the additional VCA/CV control although the A150 buttons don't look that playable.

Sleepfc
Common Wiggler
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 11:09 pm

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by Sleepfc » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:22 pm

Question, where in the chain to you place this?

I usually run vco - filter - vca then into fx modules, and then straight to my interface. Would this go before or after the the fx module? Can it handle sending modular signal into an interface?

My instinct is telling me to place it between the vca and fx

Silly question haha I know but I’ve never had a mute module before. Would love some insight!

User avatar
pieter
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1779
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:59 pm
Location: UK

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by pieter » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:18 am

I tend to like my mutes on triggers and gates, so it prevents a note being played, rather than cutting a note midway through an envelope.

However, there are so many other use cases. For example, you could mix a number of different oscillators into a sound, and use the mutes before the mixer to cut out one or more of them. That way you can fatten up a sound performatively, for example when you hit a chorus in your song.

Halfgeleider
Common Wiggler
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 1:53 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by Halfgeleider » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 am

I use them as early in the chain as possible. No audio, just triggers, Cv and gates are muted so there's no chance at bleeding audio.

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:09 am

pieter wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:18 am
However, there are so many other use cases. For example, you could mix a number of different oscillators into a sound, and use the mutes before the mixer to cut out one or more of them. That way you can fatten up a sound performatively, for example when you hit a chorus in your song.
In this vein, I especially appreciate the use of mutes to control/route modulation, e.g., muting an LFO that is routed into a filter input, or directing it to the modulation inputs of different modules.

User avatar
Rex Coil 7
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 7313
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:29 am
Location: Captain Of Outer Space

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:59 am

Very nice device. Simple as a hammer and every bit as useful. The signal distributor function is an excellent touch.
5U MODULAR NORMALIZING PROJECT (for your entertainment) viewtopic.php?t=78836&highlight=
.. as of Dec 8th 2020 on a break for a bit .. contact me via bamco60@hotmail.com if needed.
WELCOME TO 2021 .. THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES.

Sleepfc
Common Wiggler
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 11:09 pm

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by Sleepfc » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 am

Interesting it hadn’t occurred to me to run a sequencer’s gate output into this! That makes a whole bunch of sense, that way an ill-timed mute won’t affect the audio as much

Thanks for the clarification, time to rethink my patching haha

User avatar
MvK
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:46 am
Location: Berlin

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by MvK » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:29 pm

I always use one switch for toggling Sync between two Oscillators. One switch to transform the sound completely :-)

User avatar
soon_come
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:50 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by soon_come » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:32 am

I've joined the upside-down club. It's now mounted in the bottom right corner of my 12U, perfectly placed for quick action. Great idea!

User avatar
Foghorn
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1188
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:53 pm
Location: 39° 20' N, -82°17' W

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by Foghorn » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:44 pm

If you are just choosing voices there is also the Malekko Mute 4 which sums its output into one signal.
My favorite thing about the mute 4 is it is only 3 HP.
Stay Calm - We are in this forever :hmm:
.......Not really a musician.......
Machinist & Laboratory Technician

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:31 pm

Since we’re suggesting alternatives, I recommend that you direct your eyes to the Paratek Пуск-3. It has only three channels for muting, with pushbuttons instead of switches, but each channel has two modes: “instant and latch”, so you can get the same functionality as you can with the switches (although not so much on the fly).

Additionally, the inputs are normalled to 5V, so when nothing is plugged in, you can use the buttons to manually trigger gates. This means that the inputs aren’t normalled in a cascading manner (as per the Mutes), so you can’t route one signal to multiple destinations.

I can’t vouch for this module personally, but it looks like it fits my needs more than the Mutes does, and I have one on order. It’s currently in a customs dungeon somewhere.

User avatar
soon_come
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:50 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by soon_come » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:02 pm

I have one; it's quite different but also cool. Customs must have been a little rough with mine, because I had to reseat an LED and another part, but Dedal patiently guided me through the fixes. Compared to the DivKid, it also does a whole lot more, with two random algorithms. Really cool style from Paratek, as usual.

But I don't think it's the same kind of feel at all, even if it's a similar purpose on paper. I have this and the Mutes right next to each other (along with the Trogotronic m/11)! Buttons and switches galore.
IMG_8095.JPG

User avatar
megarat
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:09 pm
Location: Upper Hyperborea

Re: DivKid Mutes

Post by megarat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:23 pm

soon_come wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:02 pm
I have one; it's quite different but also cool. Customs must have been a little rough with mine, because I had to reseat an LED and another part, but Dedal patiently guided me through the fixes. Compared to the DivKid, it also does a whole lot more, with two random algorithms. Really cool style from Paratek, as usual.

But I don't think it's the same kind of feel at all, even if it's a similar purpose on paper. I have this and the Mutes right next to each other (along with the Trogotronic m/11)! Buttons and switches galore.

IMG_8095.JPG
Neat, I’m glad to hear that you like it. I excited for mine to arrive, and it will accompany a Doepfer A-182-1 and A-182-2 on my control row.

Update: mine arrived today and I've been playing with it for the past hour or so. It's great, it does just what I was hoping it would. Thumbs up from me.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”