New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by sine language » Tue May 05, 2020 10:51 pm

Yunsnare wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:11 pm
Hello, here's a last patch where Mimeophon is used in a more classical way.
ER-301 is the sound source as a generative machine, additional voices from Mangrove and Rings. Modulation by Zadar, Batumi and Just friends.

Very nice

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Cpaf » Wed May 06, 2020 3:43 am

Just wanna chime in: I don't experience any pops/clicks or noise issues that I feel are dealbreakers at all. I think it is an amazing machine for creative sound design and I mostly use those pops/clicks or noise creatively. If I really want Zero noise on a track I simply use iZotope RX7 in post (which can be had for 150 dollars right now btw)

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by tvparcable » Wed May 06, 2020 4:22 am

While it's not reasonable from Make Noise to expect everyone to suddenly start enjoying clicks and noise in a creative way, I don't mind them either. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I fell in love with electronic music listening to stuff like Aoki Takamasa or the early Apparat releases, and they are full of digital clicking, the type that happens when a sound signal is cut without any fading. Over the years, I've come to almost expect these by default when manipulating audio in real time. These types of clicks do not annoy me, it's a digital module and I expect it to act as such, even though it also produces very nice tape-like warmth. That being said, for clicks that just occur randomly it's another story, but I haven't had that issue on my unit. I still was a little bit put off the first time I ran a clean and snappy signal through my Mimeophon, especially at a low volume. The noise floor becomes noticeable and colors the sound quite significantly, which is something you don't ever see mentioned in any popular video about the Mimeophon, so there's that. No module is perfect though, and I still love mine, it's become an essential part of almost any patch I make. If anything, it's a reminder that even the most lauded modules have issues that will often be overlooked by popular Youtubers, whether it's on purpose or not. I learned that the hard way falling for the Milky Way hype after watching a couple of demo videos, only to find out later that the module's noise is ridiculous on certain PSUs... I've just learned that now, any time I want to buy a module, I'll have to scout all possible known issues on places like MW first, and not just watch demo videos online that are inherently designed to hype you up :)

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by zerodivide » Wed May 06, 2020 4:29 am

no pops or clicks here. And I dont seem to have noise issues either

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Yunsnare » Wed May 06, 2020 11:49 am

sine language wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:51 pm
Yunsnare wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:11 pm
Hello, here's a last patch where Mimeophon is used in a more classical way.
ER-301 is the sound source as a generative machine, additional voices from Mangrove and Rings. Modulation by Zadar, Batumi and Just friends.

Very nice

Thank you a lot !

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by SavageMessiah » Wed May 06, 2020 7:36 pm

I've never had any noise issues with mimeophon until yesterday. Instead of having the outputs going into a befaco stmix and then to an intellijel 1u stereo outs, I plugged the mimeophon directly into the stereo outs and it was noisy as hell and with nothing on the inputs to boot. It's always attentuated in the stmix so maybe I'm usually just not hearing it but it was so loud that I think I would have heard it even attenuated. Very weird.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by blaythe.steuer » Wed May 06, 2020 10:18 pm

I have had no noise issues or pops/clicks at all. i usually run pretty aggressive sounds though so that may be why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


also wanted to add it sounds so so good though

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by drant » Thu May 07, 2020 2:50 am

I also haven't had any noise issues or undesirable clicks or pops. I don't know if the mimeophon is always the cleanest sounding but it can be in my experience. I'm really enjoying it as a creative and inspiring module. Every turn or tweak of a knob can bring you to a new world.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Black_Materia » Thu May 07, 2020 3:58 pm

My mimeophon does have a rather high noisefloor.
It also clips quite easily, so i often use vca attenuation before going in.

I set the input gain to -3db (see back of the manual), that helped a bit.

MN did release an update for the morphagene that improved the SNR, maybe they will release one for the Mimeophone as well? I'd like a -6db option.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by insoul8 » Sat May 09, 2020 8:45 am

I’ve also noticed a pretty high noise floor. I hear it even when the dry wet and repeats knobs are turned all the way down. I’ve also tried it in an empty Make Noise Skiff just to make sure it wasn’t some kind of interference caused by another module.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by cackland » Sat May 09, 2020 9:19 am

Any measurement of how high this noise floor is?

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by tommygee » Sat May 09, 2020 9:33 am

The noise is not constant on my module. I have attached one of the samples I sent to MN. There's a recording of a synth pluck recorded directly - and then the same synth pluck being recorded through the Mimeophon (Notice that mix knob is 100% dry). Check it out in headphones.

This recording is done with the replacement module MN sent me, that unfortunately have got the same issue.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by insoul8 » Sat May 09, 2020 9:36 am

cackland wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:19 am
Any measurement of how high this noise floor is?
Not exactly sure how to measure this but one thing I found that might be interesting is when I plug any other module into my Mordax Data, the voltage level on the input reads .01v. This includes my other delays. When I plug in the output from the Mimeophon which everything turned down and no input present, the voltage reads .05-.06v.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sat May 09, 2020 10:29 am

insoul8 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:36 am
Not exactly sure how to measure this but one thing I found that might be interesting is when I plug any other module into my Mordax Data, the voltage level on the input reads .01v. This includes my other delays. When I plug in the output from the Mimeophon which everything turned down and no input present, the voltage reads .05-.06v.
I don't know if that 's a good way to measure... I don't feel like I have a noise problem with mine, yet I get slightly varying voltages all over my system:

With nothing plugged into my O'Tool+, it reads -.007 to +.006.
Tallin with no input and the knob down fully, -.007 to +.013.
Stages with the segment in yellow mode, slider down fully, no input: -.007 to +.013
Rings with no input and Damping turned down fully, 0 to +.019
Shades with no input and the knob down fully, 0 to +.019
Maths with no input, -.013 to +.006
Filter 8 with no input and no resonance, -.039 to +.013
VCFQ with no input and no resonance, 0 to +.019
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color/Mix turned down fully, 0 to +.025
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color turned down fully but Mix fully wet, still 0 to +0.025
Mimeophon with Repeats turned down fully but Mix, Halo, Color fully CW, still 0 to +0.025

.05 is a bit, but I not much more than the -.039 of my Filter 8 and I definitely wouldn't call it noisy...

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by insoul8 » Sat May 09, 2020 10:40 am

starthief wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:29 am
insoul8 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:36 am
Not exactly sure how to measure this but one thing I found that might be interesting is when I plug any other module into my Mordax Data, the voltage level on the input reads .01v. This includes my other delays. When I plug in the output from the Mimeophon which everything turned down and no input present, the voltage reads .05-.06v.
I don't know if that 's a good way to measure... I don't feel like I have a noise problem with mine, yet I get slightly varying voltages all over my system:

With nothing plugged into my O'Tool+, it reads -.007 to +.006.
Tallin with no input and the knob down fully, -.007 to +.013.
Stages with the segment in yellow mode, slider down fully, no input: -.007 to +.013
Rings with no input and Damping turned down fully, 0 to +.019
Shades with no input and the knob down fully, 0 to +.019
Maths with no input, -.013 to +.006
Filter 8 with no input and no resonance, -.039 to +.013
VCFQ with no input and no resonance, 0 to +.019
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color/Mix turned down fully, 0 to +.025
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color turned down fully but Mix fully wet, still 0 to +0.025
Mimeophon with Repeats turned down fully but Mix, Halo, Color fully CW, still 0 to +0.025

.05 is a bit, but I not much more than the -.039 of my Filter 8 and I definitely wouldn't call it noisy...
Yea, I’m admittedly not well versed on how these voltages necessarily represent noise or if it is an adequate way to measure. I just noticed the Mimeophon has the highest voltage from its outputs when compared to any other delay, mixer output, or really any other output in my system without a signal running through it.

And to complicate things, the noise gets worse in practice. If I’m running a relatively sparse or not so complex signal into the Mimeophon, the noise seems to be amplified. I have tried all of the different gain settings and they don’t make a difference that I can hear. This all of course does not make the module unusable by any stretch. It’s still great and loads of fun. It’s just the noisiest module I have in my system. It would be nice if there were a fix.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by tommygee » Sat May 09, 2020 11:11 am

insoul8 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:40 am
starthief wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 10:29 am
insoul8 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:36 am
Not exactly sure how to measure this but one thing I found that might be interesting is when I plug any other module into my Mordax Data, the voltage level on the input reads .01v. This includes my other delays. When I plug in the output from the Mimeophon which everything turned down and no input present, the voltage reads .05-.06v.
I don't know if that 's a good way to measure... I don't feel like I have a noise problem with mine, yet I get slightly varying voltages all over my system:

With nothing plugged into my O'Tool+, it reads -.007 to +.006.
Tallin with no input and the knob down fully, -.007 to +.013.
Stages with the segment in yellow mode, slider down fully, no input: -.007 to +.013
Rings with no input and Damping turned down fully, 0 to +.019
Shades with no input and the knob down fully, 0 to +.019
Maths with no input, -.013 to +.006
Filter 8 with no input and no resonance, -.039 to +.013
VCFQ with no input and no resonance, 0 to +.019
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color/Mix turned down fully, 0 to +.025
Mimeophon with Repeats/Halo/Color turned down fully but Mix fully wet, still 0 to +0.025
Mimeophon with Repeats turned down fully but Mix, Halo, Color fully CW, still 0 to +0.025

.05 is a bit, but I not much more than the -.039 of my Filter 8 and I definitely wouldn't call it noisy...
Yea, I’m admittedly not well versed on how these voltages necessarily represent noise or if it is an adequate way to measure. I just noticed the Mimeophon has the highest voltage from its outputs when compared to any other delay, mixer output, or really any other output in my system without a signal running through it.

And to complicate things, the noise gets worse in practice. If I’m running a relatively sparse or not so complex signal into the Mimeophon, the noise seems to be amplified. I have tried all of the different gain settings and they don’t make a difference that I can hear. This all of course does not make the module unusable by any stretch. It’s still great and loads of fun. It’s just the noisiest module I have in my system. It would be nice if there were a fix.
I totally agree. It's not like it's a charming quirky noise IMO (like you get with a Roland roland re-301 for instance). If it was intentional I don't get why this noise hasn't been talked about in MN's description of the module.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by vnsc » Sat May 09, 2020 11:16 am

Interesting, it isn't the noise floor the bothers me, but the audible clicks and pops that go into the feedback path when either flip or hold is ON and then ON/OFFing the other.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Sat May 09, 2020 11:29 am

I don't have problematic clicks/pops but what is the expected behavior? If you flip it, it's going to reverse the buffer, potentially making a sudden transition and causing a click. If you hold it, it's going to freeze the buffer and then the repeats knob is an offset for where the portion of the buffer begins which is another opportunity for clicking and popping.

Not to be a downer, but what do you expect to happen modulating this way?

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by radar24 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:36 am

I'm using two cases, MN shared CV bus 7u case(old version) and doepfer A-100P9(PSU3).
Interestingly, I get high noise floor and some jittery noise from Mimeophon in MN 7u
and when in doepfer A-100P9, Mimeophon is dead quiet.
I don't know what makes this happen but I put Mimeophon in P9

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by vnsc » Sat May 09, 2020 11:57 am

You're right, it is expected behaviour - it's just that it's so audible when it happens that it makes modulating it in such ways mostly untenable. Maybe that's just me, though. :despair:
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Sat May 09, 2020 12:13 pm

vnsc wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:57 am
You're right, it is expected behaviour - it's just that it's so audible when it happens that it makes modulating it in such ways mostly untenable. Maybe that's just me, though. :despair:
Have you tried filtering it (of course the obvious problems are you need a stereo filter and you can't put the filter in the feedback path)?

I don't have any complaints about the mimeophon, but in my experience the dry/repeats setting seems to skew toward repeats a little too quickly-- like 12 o'clock is a little too wet for most my patches and I end up with it around 10 or 11 most of the time.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by praiseofpeace » Sun May 10, 2020 9:55 pm

I'm currently in the market for a delay module so watched Loopop's demonstration of the Make Noise Mimeophon. As always I very much enjoyed the highly applicable examples he provided. Never before have I gravitated towards Karplus Strong but now it is a major consideration when deciding on which product to purchase.
This brings me to the question of comparison to other modules: Is there anything specific about the Mimeophon that achieves such result or is it strictly down to the aforementioned quality of Loopop's demonstrations? Would I ultimately be able to create the same sounds with any delay module that tracks 1v/oct?
Any information would be much appreciated!

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by SavageMessiah » Mon May 11, 2020 1:23 pm

Well since the color and halo stuff is in the feedback path you'll be able to get a lot of sounds that you'd only be able to get with a delay with a patchable feedback path and a couple other modules. And the result will likely not be stereo.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Mon May 11, 2020 4:00 pm

praiseofpeace wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:55 pm
I'm currently in the market for a delay module so watched Loopop's demonstration of the Make Noise Mimeophon. As always I very much enjoyed the highly applicable examples he provided. Never before have I gravitated towards Karplus Strong but now it is a major consideration when deciding on which product to purchase.
This brings me to the question of comparison to other modules: Is there anything specific about the Mimeophon that achieves such result or is it strictly down to the aforementioned quality of Loopop's demonstrations? Would I ultimately be able to create the same sounds with any delay module that tracks 1v/oct?
Any information would be much appreciated!
Loopop's "dual osc" trick is one of the cool things about it as an oscillator, but also flip has an interesting sound too (I think it drops it an octave?) and hold is neat. It also has a different sound and mine at least does not go 100% wet, so it's always a bit influenced by the incoming signals.

A potential con of using the mimeophon as an osc is that the microtime input for v/oct has a fairly narrow range.

This is a bit of a long way of saying that, yeah, you can get in the same ballpark patching this in other ways even without a dedicated module, but there are special things to the mimeophon's sound that make it less "same-y" than other Karplus Strong implementations I've heard, but perhaps there's a trade off in usability.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by praiseofpeace » Mon May 11, 2020 4:33 pm

You are referring to the "dual osc" using Skew? Yeah, that is nice but not necessarily essential for me.
To clarify with solid examples, I would be able to achieve similar Karplus-Strong results(and I'm not referring to dual osc) with Cg Products Delay 1022, Mungo Enterprises d0, Doepfer A-188 (128/256 Stages), or Make Noise's own Echophon?
Any other recommendations regarding a delay module?

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