New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

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starthief
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Mon May 11, 2020 4:46 pm

praiseofpeace wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:33 pm
You are referring to the "dual osc" using Skew? Yeah, that is nice but not necessarily essential for me.
To clarify with solid examples, I would be able to achieve similar Karplus-Strong results(and I'm not referring to dual osc) with Cg Products Delay 1022, Mungo Enterprises d0, Doepfer A-188 (128/256 Stages), or Make Noise's own Echophon?
Any other recommendations regarding a delay module?
The A-188 doesn't track 1V/oct, and I found it a little difficult to work with (if fun, in a noisy and weird way). Delay1022 or d0 are probably the primary alternatives for Karplus-Strong, though if you're willing to use an extra squarewave VCO, Disting mk4's clocked delay algorithm will do K-S. (Or a Disting EX; use the delay on one half and the VCO on the other half :) )

Whether it's "similar" though...? The character is likely to be somewhat different whatever you use. Personally I really like the character of the Mimeophon with the added potential of Color/Halo/flip. To me the important thing is that it goes well beyond typical K-S sounds, because I don't find those terribly exciting as such.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Mon May 11, 2020 4:52 pm

starthief wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:46 pm
Personally I really like the character of the Mimeophon with the added potential of Color/Halo/flip. To me the important thing is that it goes well beyond typical K-S sounds, because I don't find those terribly exciting as such.
This is exactly what I was trying to say-- a lot of the Karplus Strong stuff sounds to me like CSound/PD 101 patching (perhaps because I think that's where I learned it).

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by praiseofpeace » Mon May 11, 2020 5:36 pm

starthief wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:46 pm
Delay1022 or d0 are probably the primary alternatives for Karplus-Strong, though if you're willing to use an extra squarewave VCO
Could you clarify this? Is this because they are tracking a "clock"?

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by beepnsleep » Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm

Does repeat CV add to the knob or does the knob turn into an attenuator? It appears the knob and CV in were neglected in the section manual detailing module behaviours

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by GryphonP3 » Tue May 12, 2020 12:37 am

beepnsleep wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm
Does repeat CV add to the knob or does the knob turn into an attenuator? It appears the knob and CV in were neglected in the section manual detailing module behaviours
It becomes an attenuator.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by makenoise » Tue May 12, 2020 8:39 am

beepnsleep wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm
Does repeat CV add to the knob or does the knob turn into an attenuator? It appears the knob and CV in were neglected in the section manual detailing module behaviours
MIX is the only Combo Pot on the Mimeophon - see the i/o section on pp. 7-8 for a list of all knobs, jacks, and buttons, with normalizations noted.

The Repeats and Halo CV Inputs are summed with the setting of their respective panel controls.

On most Make Noise modules, including Mimeophon, small knobs paired with medium or large knobs are attenuators, lone small knobs are combo pots, and medium and large knobs are panel controls only.

-Walker

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by beepnsleep » Tue May 12, 2020 10:29 am

makenoise wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 8:39 am
beepnsleep wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm
Does repeat CV add to the knob or does the knob turn into an attenuator? It appears the knob and CV in were neglected in the section manual detailing module behaviours
MIX is the only Combo Pot on the Mimeophon - see the i/o section on pp. 7-8 for a list of all knobs, jacks, and buttons, with normalizations noted.

The Repeats and Halo CV Inputs are summed with the setting of their respective panel controls.

On most Make Noise modules, including Mimeophon, small knobs paired with medium or large knobs are attenuators, lone small knobs are combo pots, and medium and large knobs are panel controls only.

-Walker
Awesome, thanks!

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by synonymist » Sat May 30, 2020 9:37 pm

luketeaford wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:29 am
I don't have problematic clicks/pops but what is the expected behavior? If you flip it, it's going to reverse the buffer, potentially making a sudden transition and causing a click. If you hold it, it's going to freeze the buffer and then the repeats knob is an offset for where the portion of the buffer begins which is another opportunity for clicking and popping.

Not to be a downer, but what do you expect to happen modulating this way?
As I revisited the idea of buying a Mimeophon, I recalled reading some of this thread. Re-reading some of it now, I remembered why I was hesitant to buy a Mimeophon before.

Anecdotally: My Ditto X2 pedal will record overlayed loops forwards, backwards, at speed, at half speed... whatever, all day long without a single click or pop resulting from those operations. In other words, there is nothing intrinsically prone to making unwanted click sounds in the act of reversing an audio buffer while it is played in real time.

Thus if Mimeophon cannot perform that operation without producing click artifacts, then it is flawed in that aspect.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by ddoyen » Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 am

I can replicate this behavior but my suspicion is it has to do with the fact that when you instantly change the audio buffer you are going to get an audible click unless the voltage more or less matches when you make the change. If for example you record a sine wave in a daw, then cut a section and splice it back together such that the sine wave cycle doesn't match, you will hear a click unless you crossfade between the two sections.

Only a guess, but I can only replicate the behavior intermittently which tells me I'm getting lucky with crossover points sometimes and other times not..and it is much more apparent with low harmonic content in the buffer like sine waves. I don't think its a flaw so much as likely a design compromise. Implementing that crossover likely costs money/on board resources.

If that's something that really bothers you, I mean I get it. There's certain behaviors in certain modules that are beloved that turn me off. Personally I think its the raddest delay in eurorack. Tons of character.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by synonymist » Sun May 31, 2020 9:36 am

ddoyen wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 am
Implementing that crossover likely costs money/on board resources.
On the face of it, and all other aspects being equal (although I know they are not), it would seem that TC Electronic saw the value in spending the money to avoid that compromise in Ditto X2, but Make Noise did not in Mimeophon.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by ddoyen » Sun May 31, 2020 9:52 am

I just think they are different tools geared towards different things. One is a looper pedal, one is a crazy delay/filter/reverb combo with some looping capabilities included. If I were looking for something for looping, this wouldn't even be on my radar. Both have their strengths and weaknesses just like any piece of gear.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by r05c03 » Sun May 31, 2020 10:17 am

synonymist wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:36 am
ddoyen wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 am
Implementing that crossover likely costs money/on board resources.
On the face of it, and all other aspects being equal (although I know they are not), it would seem that TC Electronic saw the value in spending the money to avoid that compromise in Ditto X2, but Make Noise did not in Mimeophon.
Yeah yah, and the Ditto 2x and Mimeophon are identical pieces of gear.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sun May 31, 2020 10:26 am

There's definitely some crossfading going on with Mimeophon's hold feature in an attempt to stop clicks. Sometimes it's a bit intrusive and "thumpy" but not a hard click.

But sometimes when you switch Hold on/off with Repeats is turned up, hard clicks get through anyway... though sometimes I have trouble reproducing it.

I love the Mimeophon to bits and don't mind most of its quirks -- some of them can be exploited for unique effects -- but honestly I think having the Repeats knob change its meaning to start position when Hold is engaged was a mistake.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Dark Barn » Sun May 31, 2020 10:40 am

synonymist wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:37 pm
In other words, there is nothing intrinsically prone to making unwanted click sounds in the act of reversing an audio buffer while it is played in real time.
I’m curious if you are correct about this, or if the unwanted clicks (unwanted is subjective here) aren’t processed out by other means on the Ditto pedal. It does seem to me to be theoretically possible to reverse audio and have it look similar to how soft sync looks on a scope, rather than introduce a resetting click, without any processing? At first i wanted to disagree but now I wonder if you aren’t right, haha.

Anyways, the DLD does a great job of reversing the buffer without clicking, by cross fading out the click. But that’s not to take away from the Mimeophon, it is an awesome delay with many cool tricks on board and gets equal use from me as my DLD.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sun May 31, 2020 10:54 am

Just discovered something -- if you patch one of the outputs back into the Rate CV, in zone 0 with max Repeats, it self-oscillates and provides its own vibrato. And then if you skew the outputs you get harmonies :)

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by ddoyen » Sun May 31, 2020 11:37 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:40 am

Anyways, the DLD does a great job of reversing the buffer without clicking, by cross fading out the click. But that’s not to take away from the Mimeophon, it is an awesome delay with many cool tricks on board and gets equal use from me as my DLD.
Yep! I have both in my system and it doesn't feel excessive at all. Both excel in different ways.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by synonymist » Sun May 31, 2020 12:02 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:40 am
synonymist wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:37 pm
In other words, there is nothing intrinsically prone to making unwanted click sounds in the act of reversing an audio buffer while it is played in real time.
I’m curious if you are correct about this, or if the unwanted clicks (unwanted is subjective here) aren’t processed out by other means on the Ditto pedal. It does seem to me to be theoretically possible to reverse audio and have it look similar to how soft sync looks on a scope, rather than introduce a resetting click, without any processing? At first i wanted to disagree but now I wonder if you aren’t right, haha.

Anyways, the DLD does a great job of reversing the buffer without clicking, by cross fading out the click. But that’s not to take away from the Mimeophon, it is an awesome delay with many cool tricks on board and gets equal use from me as my DLD.
Hi Dark Barn. Long time! Several years ago we knew each other on another forum. I hope you're doing well. You are still smart and cool people, I can see. :)

So yes, I might have said "unspecified" rather than "unwanted". I like raggedness and filth as much as the next person. In the case of Mimeophon, however, I would want to be able to control such clicks and pops. Since that isn't possible, although I don't reject the module completely, I am less likely to devote to it the cash and rack space I already don't have available.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Dark Barn » Sun May 31, 2020 1:04 pm

Same name? Which forum? I’m on all of them except Gearslutz, f those guys!
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by synonymist » Sun May 31, 2020 3:12 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:04 pm
Same name? Which forum? I’m on all of them except Gearslutz, f those guys!
"Gearslutz..." Hahaha!

Not the same name: Snaxster. :help:

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by illlumen » Sun May 31, 2020 4:58 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:38 pm
radar24 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:33 pm
Anyone who used Echophon & Erbe Verb got mimeophon?
If you want Mimeophon for glitchy things, repeating, pitch shifting/reverse etc you might consider getting Monsoon instead.. i think its kind of cooler than mimeophon in a lot of ways, feels like it can do more tbh, it "wowed" me more than Mimeophon. i use the Kammerl Beat Repeat firmware. I bet the sound quality isnt as good though..
I have both Mimeophon and Typhoon (Superparasites firmware) in my rack as effect units. As far as I can tell (still trying to get inside) both are quite different. Typhoon/Monsoon/Clouds is much more LoFi sounding and good for that weird glitchy kind of experiments which create a lot of unexpected results.

Mimeophon is a very well thought out module with deep interference of the different knobs. Much more HiFi sounding to me. Both are very versatile modules. Sure, there is some overlapping. I rarely use them together, because all the stereo processing (especially those reverb algorithms) can cause a lot of unwanted mud. To me the Mimeophon is more hands-on, less thinking. With the Typhoon I always have to look (and hook) something up before I can get started with it.
But as I said: still working my way through.
Last edited by illlumen on Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Dark Barn » Sun May 31, 2020 7:15 pm

synonymist wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 3:12 pm
Dark Barn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 1:04 pm
Same name? Which forum? I’m on all of them except Gearslutz, f those guys!
"Gearslutz..." Hahaha!

Not the same name: Snaxster. :help:
Ah, cool indeed! :bananaguitar: :bananallama: aplologies to the rest of you for the derail.
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Scott » Sun May 31, 2020 8:40 pm

zerodivide wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:29 am
no pops or clicks here. And I dont seem to have noise issues either
Me neither. Haven’t heard one click yet.

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun May 31, 2020 9:40 pm

What case are you using?
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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by bemushroomed » Sun May 31, 2020 11:47 pm

illlumen wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 4:58 pm

I have both Mimeophon and Typhoon (Superparasites firmware) in my rack as effect units. As far as I can tell (still trying to get inside) both are quite different. Typhoon/Monsoon/Clouds is much more LoFi sounding and good for that weird glitchy kind of experiments which create a lot of unexpected results.
Yes it's a bit more lo-fi indeed, especially if you didn't change its audio quality to highest (Mimeophon is on another level still though).

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Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by spilthyfred » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:39 am

I wanted a dirtier more unique delay to go along with my Magneto, and thought the Mimeophone would be just the one. I have vetted through this thread though, and the issues this module apparently has are not something I feel like dealing with at all. So I was feeling a little bummed...

but this was all before I just found out about the sleepy SOMA Lyra8-FX.. problem solved. Hail SOMA :hail:

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