MakeNoise Mimeophon

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe., lisa

Post Reply
closedLoop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by closedLoop » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:55 am

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:20 am

Yes i got the formal mail Make noise send to all complainers about Mimeophon gated hiss issue. They recognise it but try do turn it as a bonus 😅

Also there is a huge discussion here whith customers proof using graphical audio mesurements to show how Mimeophon is faulty particularly in dry mode.

https://llllllll.co/t/make-noise-mimeophon/22265/434

Cheers
I'm really confused by the range of reports by Mimeophon users. Are some units worse than other? Or do some modules have different components under the hood?

My particular experience: none of the clicks that some people are getting, but mine has a serious noise floor. It's only useful in an effects send, which is interesting, because there are no effects sends in the Make Noise system, are there?

I'm going to guess that the Mimeophon algorithm maxes out whatever chip is in the module, and they have no room to play with the firmware to remove the noise. Otherwise, why haven't they attempted a fix?

User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:03 am

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:20 am
Also there is a huge discussion here whith customers proof using graphical audio mesurements to show how Mimeophon is faulty particularly in dry mode.
:hihi: I was the one who did some of those measurements, and I am not saying it's "faulty."

I'm saying, as I did here, that the noise exists but not at a level where it's a problem.

vnsc
Common Wiggler
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: B.C.
Contact:

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by vnsc » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:06 am



this was their (official) response.
http://vaultofstars.com
Music, art, photography, design, words

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:12 am

vnsc wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:06 am


this was their (official) response.
I saw this video already and its absolutly not what we are talking about and report!!!

Noise floor is a white noise or pink noise sound that some module have more than other. We are ok with that.

Since the begining we are talking about a GATED Digital artefact ( like a pitch shift) folowing the signal who's passing thrue. Adding an Uggly FX like when you use a gate but you preset it wrong.

We try just to understand and know if some batch are faulty
Mine has this gated noise and he is kind of unusable with calm sound like piano or other sound with big dynamic.
Its not question of tolerable background sound 🤷🏻‍♂️
Last edited by Blond 12 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

vnsc
Common Wiggler
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:26 pm
Location: B.C.
Contact:

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by vnsc » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:15 am

Did you email them? Did you return it? They have already made it pretty clear to anyone who has emailed them that they are not going to be changing anything. Take it or leave it (or sell it). The video was their general response to the public.
http://vaultofstars.com
Music, art, photography, design, words

closedLoop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by closedLoop » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:23 am

vnsc wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:15 am
The video was their general response to the public.
I honestly thought that video was a joke.

User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:31 am

I thought the video was serious and not specifically related to the Mimeophon. But then, I feel like Make Noise thinks similarly to the way I do about music making.

User avatar
Funky40
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6109
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: on a big voyage

Re: New MakeNoise module: Mimeophon

Post by Funky40 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:32 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:36 am
on another note, I suspected that a self-oscillating Mimeophon would take especially well to stacking another feedback path into it with a frequency shifter inserted in the middle, and I was pretty impressed by how well this works with Mimeophon.
i will give this a try !

i only had some short feedback tests so far, which brought me finally nowhere.
but now i´m tempted to check again ;) , Thanks
For SALE: Switzerland, which is NOT EU (prices in CHF):
Rossum Evolution Filter: 280.- / Modcan VCDO (rare): 250.-

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:30 am

So what about that?

I did a video cause some people are still talking about "noise floor" or normal and acceptable stuff...

- Mimeophon dry (default input level , green LED)
- Gain staging calibrate to -18 dBFs thrue all the chain
- Rosie knob output at noon so not loud output preset.

To describe this shit is like you open a Gas cylinder when Mimeophon is here 😅 Nice feature Make Noise 👏


User avatar
luketeaford
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2020
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:54 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:17 pm

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:30 am
So what about that?

I did a video cause some people are still talking about "noise floor" or normal and acceptable stuff...

- Mimeophon dry (default input level , green LED)
- Gain staging calibrate to -18 dBFs thrue all the chain
- Rosie knob output at noon so not loud output preset.

To describe this shit is like you open a Gas cylinder when Mimeophon is here 😅 Nice feature Make Noise 👏

I can't recreate anything like this. I am not knowledgeable about electronics, but the FIRST thing I would do would be to remove absolutely everything else from your case except the sample playing module, mimeophon, and rosie and see if you can still reproduce that.

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:26 pm

Heuuu you dont get it ...
In the video i unplugg the Mimeophon and the piano became crystal clear... Means the problem is from Mimeophon...

And the video start with me before putting the piano im doing an A/B comparison , Mimeophon into Rosie = noise,. Rosie alone no noise.

Its not a question of electricity in my rack cause everything is silent when the Mimeophon is out of the chain 🤷🏻‍♂️


closedLoop
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am
Location: nyc

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by closedLoop » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:55 pm

luketeaford wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:17 pm
Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:30 am
So what about that?

I did a video cause some people are still talking about "noise floor" or normal and acceptable stuff...

- Mimeophon dry (default input level , green LED)
- Gain staging calibrate to -18 dBFs thrue all the chain
- Rosie knob output at noon so not loud output preset.

To describe this shit is like you open a Gas cylinder when Mimeophon is here 😅 Nice feature Make Noise 👏

I can't recreate anything like this. I am not knowledgeable about electronics, but the FIRST thing I would do would be to remove absolutely everything else from your case except the sample playing module, mimeophon, and rosie and see if you can still reproduce that.
Mine is even worse than that.

I've tried it with both MN Power and 4ms Row Power, by itself, and with other modules connected. It's always noisy, and it's not 'good' noise. As I mentioned above, the only way I've found to deal with the noise is to put it in an aux send and return.

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:07 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:55 pm
Mine is even worse than that.

I've tried it with both MN Power and 4ms Row Power, by itself, and with other modules connected. It's always noisy, and it's not 'good' noise. As I mentioned above, the only way I've found to deal with the noise is to put it in an aux send and return.
Wow!!! How it can be worst than that hahah sorry for you. I find this already soooo anoying and disgrasfull. When you compare the 2 moment in my video playing piano with and without Mimeophon, you really see between crystal clear silence and the mess adding by him...

So do you think our module are faulty? Cause aparently some users can't hear that!!! 😳

Last edited by Blond 12 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
luketeaford
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2020
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:54 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by luketeaford » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:09 pm

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:26 pm
Heuuu you dont get it ...
In the video i unplugg the Mimeophon and the piano became crystal clear... Means the problem is from Mimeophon...

And the video start with me before putting the piano im doing an A/B comparison , Mimeophon into Rosie = noise,. Rosie alone no noise.

Its not a question of electricity in my rack cause everything is silent when the Mimeophon is out of the chain 🤷🏻‍♂️

If I am not mistaken, some modules require different amounts of power and will function differently when they don't have enough. Which scenario is more likely:
1. Some people have electrical problems. Seems like rack mounted 0-coasts and a handful of fairly high powered modules (qpas, xpan, the digital modules) are common.
2. Some people have Mimeophon with different components in them.

In any case, I am bored with trying to help you with this.

User avatar
0netwo0netwo
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:19 pm
Location: United States

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by 0netwo0netwo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:13 pm

3. Some like to just complain rather than creating a solution for themselves that they can be happy with

also BORED

also feel part of the problem would indeed be putting the 0-Coast in the rack with everything else
Last edited by 0netwo0netwo on Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:15 pm

luketeaford wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:09 pm
]

If I am not mistaken, some modules require different amounts of power and will function differently when they don't have enough. Which scenario is more likely:
1. Some people have electrical problems. Seems like rack mounted 0-coasts and a handful of fairly high powered modules (qpas, xpan, the digital modules) are common.
2. Some people have Mimeophon with different components in them.

In any case, I am bored with trying to help you with this.
Sorry but you dont help at all its me bored explaining you how to understand the real problem 🤷🏻‍♂️

My case is divided in two rows perfectly balanced and calculated on modulargrid. Less than 70% power use for each.

Again if you really look the video untill the end you can see that my rack and setup has not problem cause when i bypass the Mimeophon its not noisy anymore and perfectly silent!!! The piano sound good and with no noise at all when Mimeophon is bypass. We just wanna know if some people hear the same to maybe ask a replacement cause faulty batch!

That it 🤷🏻‍♂️

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm

0netwo0netwo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:13 pm
3. Some like to just complain rather than creating a solution for themselves that they can be happy with

also BORED

also feel part of the problem would indeed be putting the 0-Coast in the rack with everything else
Are you dumb too or what??? In the video you can see that my rack as no problem at all after removing Mimeophon! No problem at all to rack the Ocoast magad...

So much newbie trying to not help here...
Last edited by Blond 12 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
starthief
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4976
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:39 am
Location: St Louis, MO
Contact:

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by starthief » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm

I don't think it's a power issue here, I think it's gain staging as I keep saying. It sounds exactly like what I get if the input to Mimeophon is fairly quiet.

The levels of of samples from Disting EX vary somewhat, but they're typically not all that loud. If you use an oscillator that outputs 10V peak-peak, run that through a VCA, through Mimeophon and then attenuate it, you're going to attenuate most of the noise so it's much more difficult to notice.

If you have a 2Vpp signal going into Mimeophon, you're going to attenuate the noise a lot less too. This is really easy to experiment with using an oscillator, a VCA that has a gain knob, and a scope to measure the level with.

It's simple: Mimeophon adds noise. If the input level is high enough, the amount of noise relative to the input is not a problem. If the input level is low, the amount of noise relative to the input is louder and can be a problem. So feed Mimeophon louder input. It has some gain settings you can try that might be helpful.

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:21 pm

starthief wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm
I don't think it's a power issue here, I think it's gain staging as I keep saying. It sounds exactly like what I get if the input to Mimeophon is fairly quiet.

The levels of of samples from Disting EX vary somewhat, but they're typically not all that loud. If you use an oscillator that outputs 10V peak-peak, run that through a VCA, through Mimeophon and then attenuate it, you're going to attenuate most of the noise so it's much more difficult to notice.

If you have a 2Vpp signal going into Mimeophon, you're going to attenuate the noise a lot less too. This is really easy to experiment with using an oscillator, a VCA that has a gain knob, and a scope to measure the level with.

Mimeophon has some input gain settings you can try that might be helpful.
Thanks trying to help. I did the same try with the STO and same issue . As you can see all my VCA and output level are close to a good gain staging...
I also switch in all LED input preset prossible 🤦🏼‍♂️

I think i give up .
Thanks for your help tho

User avatar
0netwo0netwo
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:19 pm
Location: United States

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by 0netwo0netwo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:42 pm

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:17 pm
0netwo0netwo wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:13 pm
3. Some like to just complain rather than creating a solution for themselves that they can be happy with

also BORED

also feel part of the problem would indeed be putting the 0-Coast in the rack with everything else
Are you dumb too or what??? In the video you can see that my rack as no problem at all after removing Mimeophon! No problem at all to rack the Ocoast magad...

So much newbie trying to not help here...

yes im Dumb, you solved it

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1320
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:58 pm

come on, everyone chill out. we should be able to agree by now that this is a real (clearly demonstrated and manufacturer-acknowledged) issue that affects at least some of the builds of this module, that might be exacerbated by different power supplies and cables, and that clearly also doesn't bother everyone to the same extent. I don't see any point in devolving into personal attacks or in trying to silence anyone.

my Mimeophon doesn't have a high noise floor - it doesn't hiss all the time like Blond's seems to. but I am able to reproduce the trailing noise artifact that Blond shows in their video, which has the temporal dynamic of a gated reverb but sounds like digital noise. in my case, it's more quiet relative to the source audio than in Blond's video.

for me, it happens at both fully dry and fully wet, with 10vpp source audio (and at all levels of attentuation of that) and at all of the input gain settings you can cycle through on the Mimeophon. it does get more noticeable when the source audio is too quiet, but the +6db input gain setting helps there. I'm using a Meanwell GST60A12 switching power supply.

I never noticed this trailing noise artifact because any amount of feedback suppresses it. so, in my typical use cases for Mimeophon, as a highly abused send-effect that's recorded separately, it is not an issue for me. I also don't notice it at all if I use it like a traditional delay (e.g. feedback/repeats at 10:00 and some clock-related delay time) and even when not fully wet.

I can also see this might be unacceptable to some people in cases beyond "I want to record this as an insert-effect", like if you want it to have a permanent role in an FX chain that could end up processing these trailing artifacts + your dry audio.
Last edited by autopoiesis on Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blond 12
Common Wiggler
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 am

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by Blond 12 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:58 pm
come on, everyone chill tf out. we should be able to agree by now that this is a real (measured, demonstrated, manufacturer-acknowledged) issue that affects at least some of the builds of this module, that might be exacerbated by different power supplies and cables, and that clearly also doesn't bother everyone to the same extent. I don't see any point in devolving into personal attacks or in trying to silence anyone.

my Mimeophon doesn't have a high noise floor - it doesn't hiss all the time like Blond's seems to. but I am able to reproduce the trailing noise artifact that Blond shows in their video, which has the temporal dynamic of a gated reverb but sounds like digital noise. in my case, it's more quiet relative to the source audio than in Blond's video.

for me, it happens at both fully dry and fully wet, with 10vpp signals attenuated to different levels and at all of the input gain settings you can cycle through on the Mimeophon. using a Meanwell GST60A12 switching power supply.

I never noticed this trailing noise artifact because any amount of feedback suppresses it. so, in my typical use cases for Mimeophon (as a highly abused send-effect that's recorded separately), it's not something that I notice. I also don't notice it at all if I use it like a traditional delay (30% wet, feedback/repeats at 10:00, some clock-related delay time).
Amen!!! 🙏

Thanks for that clear and objectiv summary.
I'll continue testing on my side out of this thread.
Thanks to the peoples who tryed to understand.
Your explanation mixed with those of starthief help me a lot.

Cheers.

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2203
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:45 am

The explanation that was already made pages ago.

Mods can we separate the threads at this point? There's a lot of people that need to discuss the noise and a lot of people that want some patching techniques and it's an impossible sift at this point.
THUMPR BC SC

_lampshade_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by _lampshade_ » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:31 pm

So despite being kind of wary given all the issues noise and other things raised in this thread, I went ahead and took a chance and got a mimeophon. so just wanted to check and give my experience.my copy IS a relatively noisy module, that sort of nasty noise ducking on the dry signal is noticeable, but only with poor gain staging, low input level and high post amplification. with a good input level it is completely unnoticeable to me. IDK there may be variation between copies or others may have different standards and find it unacceptable.

i do wish wish there was an option for the halo to come at the start of the signal chain so the fist copy, the dry sound could also be affected. and also that the hold function wasn't affected by repeat adjusting start time making it useable as a tempo synced looper in hold mode.

but its a very fun module. which i think will nicely compliment morphagene and reward years of experimentation no regrets.

User avatar
r05c03
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 952
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: MakeNoise Mimeophon

Post by r05c03 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:22 am

Blond 12 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:30 am
So what about that?

I did a video cause some people are still talking about "noise floor" or normal and acceptable stuff...

- Mimeophon dry (default input level , green LED)
- Gain staging calibrate to -18 dBFs thrue all the chain
- Rosie knob output at noon so not loud output preset.

To describe this shit is like you open a Gas cylinder when Mimeophon is here 😅 Nice feature Make Noise 👏

Jeez, get rid of it if it bothers you so much. So over this discussion.
Gear List: Elektron Octatrack, Elektron A4,Microbrute, Bass Station, Rings Braids, Pitts Ring Mod, Pitts Osc, Echophon, Intillegel uFold / uMIDI, PNW2, Doepfer 138-c, 119, Tiptop Z4000, Maleko Fade / 8NU8R

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”