Rabid Elephant - Portal Kick

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

User avatar
nectarios
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:44 am

Post by nectarios » Fri May 10, 2019 3:16 pm

Would have liked to hear some long decay, subby kicks besides the tight ones and high pitched, tom like sounds.

Guess I'm going to have to wait for DivKid's demo.

User avatar
Sanys
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:02 pm
Location: Saint CV

Post by Sanys » Fri May 10, 2019 3:17 pm

in a year or so

User avatar
MARK27
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:07 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Post by MARK27 » Fri May 10, 2019 3:34 pm

How would this thread turn out if it was Cwjemann who announced it and not Rabid Elephant?
That was the first thing that occurred to me after reading the first few responses to this thread.

RE over-engineers and over-builds their modules. They are serious modules for professionals, just as Cwejman and Schippmann are. If I was making a living creating EDM tracks, the Portal Kick would be an immediate purchase.

The one thing that strikes me as unusual in this case, is that the Portal Kick is designed for such a specific role. RE's earlier modules, Knobs and NG, are much more general in terms of application and subsequently easier to justify the high price. I probably won't be picking this one up, but only because I don't really do that kind of music anymore.

User avatar
gentle_attack
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1046
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:24 pm
Location: Wash DC

Post by gentle_attack » Fri May 10, 2019 4:09 pm

nectarios wrote:Would have liked to hear some long decay, subby kicks besides the tight ones and high pitched, tom like sounds.

Guess I'm going to have to wait for DivKid's demo.
That's what's kind of funny about this, and other single function/ DSP in a module (not what this is but just in general)- like you can patch up something like this and load it up into your sampler or DAW, that's kind of the whole fun of it, for me at least.

$1000 for kick sounds only, I don't know about all that. :75: :deadbanana:
Control Skiff ||Big Case || cv.ocd || TT303v2 || Manther || OP-1 OP-Lab|| Octatrack Digitone RYTM || BX-8 BX-16 || Monologue KP3+

NoLegs
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:16 pm

Post by NoLegs » Fri May 10, 2019 4:23 pm

Pretty sure sub-1000 was a tongue in cheek way of saying “I have no idea”

User avatar
atrostor
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:46 am

Post by atrostor » Fri May 10, 2019 4:29 pm

They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.

kylverstone
Common Wiggler
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:02 pm
Location: TN

Post by kylverstone » Fri May 10, 2019 4:35 pm

That's a ridiculous price for a kick module. I'm sure it sounds great, but c'mon!

User avatar
drowld
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 971
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:53 pm

Post by drowld » Fri May 10, 2019 5:09 pm

tbh there are kick modules for 200$. damn even sample based one for less than that.
if the price aint right for you maybe don't buy it or you could just spam their inbox saying how you feel about the heftyheftyhefty price of their modules which isnt in tune with your profound kick desires.

User avatar
TemplarK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Outer Space

Post by TemplarK » Fri May 10, 2019 5:13 pm

drowld wrote:or you could just spam their inbox saying how you feel about the heftyheftyhefty price of their modules which isnt in tune with your profound kick desires.
Sound like you have some experience in heftyheftyhefty priced module mitigation tactics :hihi:

User avatar
cackland
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1867
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Post by cackland » Fri May 10, 2019 5:21 pm

atrostor wrote:They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.
I think this also.

User avatar
Mashmore
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:10 pm

Post by Mashmore » Fri May 10, 2019 6:04 pm

cackland wrote:
atrostor wrote:They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.
I think this also.
Might not be a bad idea at the end of the day. Considering what the natural gate was going for by scalpers. At least at that price point it would be hard for most to justify spending 800-1000 bucks for a kick ;)

User avatar
MindMachine
weekend warrior
Posts: 6685
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:45 am
Location: Santa Susana Field Lab

Post by MindMachine » Fri May 10, 2019 9:58 pm

tonyfromthetigercage wrote:Over-engineered drum module for "under $1000" bucks that I'd have to pay $4000 to get my hands on because the manufacturer actually specializes in building death rays and this is just a little side job so they'll never be able to meet demand.

No thanks.
Just consider it a 'limited edition' that is actually limited then.
FS: SP-555 Sampler, Pedals, ASol SQ8 - CHEAP!!!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... 4&t=227738
WTT: my Mangler for your Rumour

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6292
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Fri May 10, 2019 10:54 pm

Well at least they looked nice and relaaaxed.

User avatar
Muff McMuff
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:20 am
Location: CNX and MAN

Post by Muff McMuff » Fri May 10, 2019 10:57 pm

cackland wrote:
atrostor wrote:They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.
I think this also.
Thats not the vibe i got. They seemed ultra chilled and just focused on making the best module they can. Its ready when its ready and i don't even think they have thought about what it will cost until its finished.

User avatar
hawkfuzz
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1808
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri May 10, 2019 11:50 pm

atrostor wrote:They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.
"We sorta underpriced the Natural Gate going in so..."

User avatar
nectarios
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:44 am

Post by nectarios » Sat May 11, 2019 12:35 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
atrostor wrote:They said less than $1000 and in the $500-600 range. I personally would not pay $500 for a kick module. It sounds like they are testing the market to gauge pricing based on how high they can go rather than how much they think it's worth.
"We sorta underpriced the Natural Gate going in so..."
Yeah and there was me thinking NG is one of the more expensive LPGs of the market. Again, I am not saying they charge too much for what it cost them, as I have no idea what it cost them.

I wonder if they thought that before or after people where spending so much to get one in the second hand market.

User avatar
chrisj
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:40 pm
Location: Vermont
Contact:

Post by chrisj » Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 am

I got a Moog DFAM for just this purpose.

It looks to me like this can replace most of what I can do with the DFAM: does some things the DFAM can't, misses some things the DFAM does. Gets into that zone that requires really fussy tuning on the DFAM.

Apparently comparable price. People are ready to dismiss the DFAM (sometimes) for the same reason, even: too specialized and obtuse? I bet DFAM is, in the long run, 'modular-ier'. More ability to patch into bits of it and split them out to other purposes. On the other hand with the (individually switchable) sample and hold stuff you could have a lot of weird stuff coming IN to the module.

Barring some issue like it being noisy or whatever I would use this to replace my DFAM kick stuff, and then I'd keep the DFAM around and have it doing basses or something. But then I also want a Rickenbacker 4003 or 4001 as a bass, and those cost as much as both of these modules added together :)

User avatar
suthnear
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:03 pm
Location: located

Post by suthnear » Sat May 11, 2019 6:43 am

Their logic is sound, though. The difference between a great kick and an average one is often fairly slight and if the range of the pots is too broad the reduced knob resolution in critical areas makes it hard to make the small and necessary adjustments to get the kick to sit just right.

And while $500 is also more than I'd pay, the jomox, bld and boomtshak are in this range. Patching a decent kick drum takes quite a few modules. If kicks are important to your music and this module delivers, it might be worth it.

User avatar
Yaitw
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:47 pm
Location: Estonia

Post by Yaitw » Tue May 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Yeah
I have a Cwejman BLD and it takes me waay too much of careful dialing to get a great sounding kick.
And it would be nice if by changing a parameter it would change the character slightly instead of it becoming a bongo or something else drastically different.
I do Techno and House so a great sounding kick like this is right up my alley.
I will put aside "Less than a thousand" euros so I wouldn't miss the bandwagon on the preorders :sb:

PS: Does anyone know the hp on this?

User avatar
Nino
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:45 pm

Post by Nino » Tue May 21, 2019 4:30 pm

The preliminary shows a 14hp module.

Jaypee
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:46 am

Post by Jaypee » Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 am

Yaitw wrote:Yeah
I have a Cwejman BLD and it takes me waay too much of careful dialing to get a great sounding kick.
And it would be nice if by changing a parameter it would change the character slightly instead of it becoming a bongo or something else drastically different.
I do Techno and House so a great sounding kick like this is right up my alley.
I will put aside "Less than a thousand" euros so I wouldn't miss the bandwagon on the preorders :sb:

PS: Does anyone know the hp on this?
Really? I'm very happy about my BLD. But I do agree it's not a very immediate module. I started taking pics of the sweet spots I got. And do it every time I find a new one.
It's capable of every kick drum I can think of. That's why I'm really interested about this new R.Elephant module.

About the price, yeah that high for sure. But it requires a lot of modules to get a great sounding kick drum (even more if you want to use a saturation module for treatment)
"Those aren't your daddy's waveforms " Cynthia Webster

User avatar
PM33AUD
Destroyer of BSP
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:28 pm
Location: Switzerland

Post by PM33AUD » Sat May 25, 2019 10:14 am

I have read through this a bit and have some updates on the module here:

https://rabidelephant.com/blogs/general ... updates-sb

People have told me my sarcasm is almost always on, and pretty dry (hard to detect).  So comments in regards to pricing were a bit of this :D Price I always worry about later.  I'm still working on the prototype so my guess of under 1k is just that.  I will have a final number when it's done - to add it all up now while I'm still changing things is not the right time.

User avatar
TemplarK
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:31 pm
Location: Outer Space

Post by TemplarK » Sat May 25, 2019 10:27 am

PM33AUD wrote:I have read through this a bit and have some updates on the module here:

https://rabidelephant.com/blogs/general ... updates-sb

People have told me my sarcasm is almost always on, and pretty dry (hard to detect).  So comments in regards to pricing were a bit of this :D Price I always worry about later.  I'm still working on the prototype so my guess of under 1k is just that.  I will have a final number when it's done - to add it all up now while I'm still changing things is not the right time.
Big booming kicks are easy to do in Euro, i've found its the harder kicks that i struggle to dial in are harder house kicks so i guess you could even say those that mimic a real kick they always need a ton of EQ and compession insane amounts actually to the point i sometimes just think i'll use samples next time.

Using a filter gets you a harder kick but it also can sound zappy easily or too hard. From the small demo it seemed like you might be making a analog kick that is able to do harder style kicks still without the zappy sounding keeping the knock etc i guess more in a 909 style but without exactly cloning that. The sounds you were reaching in Divkids demo were really what i'd want from a kick when talking "kind of like a 909 but not"!

Just something to keep in mind when building this out!

I run a BLD but will defo check out portal i hope its finished sooner rather than later. I think you could maybe keep the pots so they are limited and keep you within the "portal kick" domain but allow people to use CV to push past what the knobs allow then you get to keep the overall sound but also people can reap the benefits of external modulation!

User avatar
PM33AUD
Destroyer of BSP
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:28 pm
Location: Switzerland

Post by PM33AUD » Sat May 25, 2019 10:36 am

PhineasFreak wrote:since when is the 'click generator' unique?
Haha... the click generator is (probably?) unique because of the way we are doing it. Even if it's not, I don't care - we like how it sounds and so it stays. The PK click is done in the (sinusoidal quadrature) VCO core by biasing the starting point of the sinusoid so there's no layering of other sounds or 'chopping after the fact' of the shape as you'd do with a separate envelope/VCA. It starts off from this point so when it's fired, you don't have to worry about phasing issues - there is no way to have a phase mismatch of the click and the start of the sound because there is only ever one function playing at a time.

I design most things largely in a vacuum so it is possible this method has been done before. To me it sounded unique to all of the other layering or EG-based methods of generating the click sound we tried and have been using for years. To me, our click/tick sounds integrated with the core sound rather than a separate set of things. We were listening to a lot of minimal at the time and so the sound of the kick had to be this cohesive 'thing' when you listened closely. And also, this ends up being very easy to set/tune and doesn't require all this extra work in post, which we try and limit our exposure to.

It is also processed by the portal stage so its sound interacts with this circuit and changes the way the click sounds, which is also cool. Also there is the tick too, which is a separate method of creating a transient that also is not a layering or EG technique. Idk. I just tried lots of kick and other drum modules and didn't see anything like this present but let's just leave it at 'unique to us' and momma said that's good enough for me! :D
nectarios wrote:Would have liked to hear some long decay, subby kicks besides the tight ones and high pitched, tom like sounds.
Hello! Yes, the prototype had an upper limit on decay length due to a last-minute calibration we did on the AMP DECAY EG shape that ended up being extreme enough to require re-ranging of the panel control. But that's a quick fix as far as fixes go on my list of required changes.
Last edited by PM33AUD on Sat May 25, 2019 10:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
PM33AUD
Destroyer of BSP
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:28 pm
Location: Switzerland

Post by PM33AUD » Sat May 25, 2019 10:50 am

TemplarK wrote:Using a filter gets you a harder kick but it also can sound zappy easily or too hard. From the small demo it seemed like you might be making a analog kick that is able to do harder style kicks still without the zappy sounding keeping the knock etc i guess more in a 909 style but without exactly cloning that. The sounds you were reaching in Divkids demo were really what i'd want from a kick when talking "kind of like a 909 but not"!
Yea, PM/email me a few house tunes that have 'really good' kicks to your ear. We'll add it to our testing playlist. My house library is kinda lacking anyways.

We make all adjustments in music. We also do not try to emulate the sound of a such and such kick in whatever song, but rather that it functions or serves the same role and vibe as it does in the original. This 'rule' ensures we avoid accidentally tuning the module against its own character, which we like, into sth else that you can already achieve.

In regards to knock... yes, this is part of that 909 sound - I'd argue most of it. You can set this on the Portal in terms of depth and the FM decay, but it features our own FM EG shape, which is definitely different than what's on the 909. There is a combination of click, FM, and portal that give the harder 'banger' kicks.

BTW, in those demo videos, I could not hear anything due to how loud SB was, which you can't really hear I guess due to these super directional microphones the interviewers use. Even if I could my ears were completely toast. We'll put some proper kick sounds and songs up as we button them up.
TemplarK wrote:I run a BLD but will defo check out portal i hope its finished sooner rather than later. I think you could maybe keep the pots so they are limited and keep you within the "portal kick" domain but allow people to use CV to push past what the knobs allow then you get to keep the overall sound but also people can reap the benefits of external modulation!
Yea, it will still have the settability, as always. I am happy with most of the ranges. It's mainly how to handle tune. Ex modulation of CV inputs that exceed the range of panel controls is one way but has some issues in regards to attenuating after offset, which is annoying to set up. But we already know a control that you cannot tune is worse.

There are internal discussions about what this module is and where it can/should go. Because it's such a sound-design centric module, what we are looking at is what controls do not have enough range first, 1V/oct compensated TUNE input (since we like how it does toms and we'd now need it to track other VCOs for membrane 2), and some tweaks to some things I'll keep disclosed till I test them and make sure they don't suck.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”