Frap Tools USTA

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Gringo Starr
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:35 pm

Is there a way to increase the speed of the “slide” or “glide” between two notes?
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 pm

As far as I know it, it's a non-configurable feature, however, if you were to change the length of the stage you may get different results.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:49 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 pm
As far as I know it, it's a non-configurable feature, however, if you were to change the length of the stage you may get different results.

Just tried a shorter gate and it cuts off the note before it even hits its destination. Too bad. Kinda sucks that it takes almost the entire gate length possible to hit the designated note right before it changes to the next step.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by macio » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:29 am

Gringo Starr wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:49 am
hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 pm
As far as I know it, it's a non-configurable feature, however, if you were to change the length of the stage you may get different results.
Just tried a shorter gate and it cuts off the note before it even hits its destination. Too bad. Kinda sucks that it takes almost the entire gate length possible to hit the designated note right before it changes to the next step.
It’s the way it’s designed. It’s already been discussed here and I did it in separate communication with Frap Tools. What you’re asking here is portamento. Now the glide is taking whole stage (100%). I proposed that one could configure it to 50% of the stage. The only other option i see is to use gated slew limiter and use B gate for triggering portamento.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by MossGarden » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:18 am

You could always shift the target note an octave up, so that the glide hits desired note at 50% gate length? A little untidy but doable

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by peachesandbacon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:55 am

I can't understand how the slide is usable in a melodic way when it doesnt even hit the note that you've told the stage to play in time.

Can someone explain to me the point of this?

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by macio » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:35 am

I can imagine it can be useful for other modulation.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:32 am

peachesandbacon wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:55 am
I can't understand how the slide is usable in a melodic way when it doesnt even hit the note that you've told the stage to play in time.

Can someone explain to me the point of this?
The way I've used it is:
Stage 1: A
Stage 2: B, with glide
Stage 3: B, no glide

That way, you can set Stage 2 to be the length of the glide. Working this way, you obviously lose one of the 16 stages.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by hawkfuzz » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:57 am

Great solution.

With all the patterns I don't think losing a step is an issue :hihi:
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by macio » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:25 am

I loved how it was solved in René mkii. You could turn glides on and off.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:04 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:32 am

The way I've used it is:
Stage 1: A
Stage 2: B, with glide
Stage 3: B, no glide

That way, you can set Stage 2 to be the length of the glide. Working this way, you obviously lose one of the 16 stages.
That’s a good idea. Is there a way to keep the gate open from the previous step without needing to re-trigger the step that follows the glide?

This does seem like a bit of an unnecessary feature considering the way it’s been implemented. It doesn’t make sense as it doesn’t deliver anything useful the way it is.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:49 pm

Gringo Starr wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:04 pm
closedLoop wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:32 am

The way I've used it is:
Stage 1: A
Stage 2: B, with glide
Stage 3: B, no glide

That way, you can set Stage 2 to be the length of the glide. Working this way, you obviously lose one of the 16 stages.
That’s a good idea. Is there a way to keep the gate open from the previous step without needing to re-trigger the step that follows the glide?

This does seem like a bit of an unnecessary feature considering the way it’s been implemented. It doesn’t make sense as it doesn’t deliver anything useful the way it is.
I might not be understanding you completely, but in the scenario I described couldn't you:

Stage 1: CV A with note A - Gate A, full length of 16
Stage 2: CV A with note B, with glide - Gate A, full length of 16
Stage 3: CV A with note B, no glide - Gate A, length of 1

If Gate A goes into an ASR, it should open/rise with Stage 1, stay open through Stage 2, and then release/fall with Stage 3.

I'm pretty certain that having the Gate length at 16 is a tie.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:47 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:49 pm

I'm pretty certain that having the Gate length at 16 is a tie.
Ah yeah I think you’re right. The gate turned all the way up ties it to the next step if I remember right. I’m literally two days worth of patching in with the manual in front of me so still figuring this out.

It would be cool if Frap Tools could implement a way to control the speed of the glide though.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Gringo Starr wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:47 pm


Ah yeah I think you’re right. The gate turned all the way up ties it to the next step if I remember right. I’m literally two days worth of patching in with the manual in front of me so still figuring this out.

It would be cool if Frap Tools could implement a way to control the speed of the glide though.
I know what you mean, USTA's a deep module with lots of functionality. It's hard to keep it all in your head when you're learning it. It's my only racked sequencer, so that's pushed me to really take it in. That said, I still haven't gone anywhere near Song Mode.

What kind of control do you want of the glide? A curved/exponential response instead of a linear response? Or do you want to set the length of the slide independent of the stage length?

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by macio » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:14 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:05 pm
What kind of control do you want of the glide? A curved/exponential response instead of a linear response? Or do you want to set the length of the slide independent of the stage length?
Sorry to interfere. I would see it as percentage value of a stage length. For me setting it to 50% of a stage would do the trick.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:06 pm

closedLoop wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:05 pm
What kind of control do you want of the glide? A curved/exponential response instead of a linear response? Or do you want to set the length of the slide independent of the stage length?
Setting the glide independent of stage length would be nice but if Im understanding Macios comment correctly then setting it to 50% of the stage would double the speed of the glide? If that's the case then it would definitely help.

It's just not very musical the way it is now. It's like playing a guitar or any stringed instrument for that matter... it's far less common to put so much emphasis on a long slide that quickly leaves the note it's sliding into as opposed to a quicker and more subtle slide into a note that has time to be noticed before the next note comes. Hope that made sense.

peachesandbacon wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:55 am
I can't understand how the slide is usable in a melodic way when it doesnt even hit the note that you've told the stage to play in time.

Can someone explain to me the point of this?
Exactly. If there's a way for a change in this to be implemented in a software update then it most definitely should to be done.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by closedLoop » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:45 pm

Gringo Starr wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:06 pm

Setting the glide independent of stage length would be nice but if Im understanding Macios comment correctly then setting it to 50% of the stage would double the speed of the glide? If that's the case then it would definitely help.

The red LED "skip" mode for the encoders when editing CV doesn't seem at all useful to me. I sometimes use skip for Gate (you can also just set the Gate length to 0), but I never use it for CV stages, because it just leaves the pitch/raw value in the value from the previous stage. I'm not sure if other USTA users are finding skip setting useful for CV, but maybe that could alternately be used to set the length of the glide in a percentage relative to the stage length?

For example, when editing CV, and the ring encoder is red:
0 LEDs around the encoder lit = no glide, immediately jumps to new value
8 LEDs around the encoder lit = glide takes 50% of the stage length duration
4 LEDs around the encoder lit = glide takes 25% of the stage length duration
2 LEDs around the encoder lit = glide takes 12.5% of the stage length duration
13 LEDs around the encoder lit = glide takes 81.25% of the stage length duration
16 LEDs around the encoder lit = glide takes the entire stage length duration

I get lots of daft ideas like this for USTA improvements.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by peachesandbacon » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:43 pm

So the point of the slide is to be used for other modulation than pitch correct?

For pitch cv it's completely pointless as it's so unmusical, no-one is going to use it.

Or am I missing something?

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by hawkfuzz » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:54 pm

I use it. It's maybe not what you want, but I think most people wouldn't use "unmusical" to describe it. It's definitely not what I expected but I've adapted.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Cpaf » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 am

funny the glide seems to be one of the most musical ones I've heard from a sequencer. Can't stop watching this one:

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by peachesandbacon » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:43 am

Cpaf wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 am
funny the glide seems to be one of the most musical ones I've heard from a sequencer. Can't stop watching this one:
Yeah, that's lovely, but the stages it's used in that example are quite long.
If you have short stages it doesn't reach the note in time.

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Cpaf » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:46 am

peachesandbacon wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:43 am
Cpaf wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 am
funny the glide seems to be one of the most musical ones I've heard from a sequencer. Can't stop watching this one:
Yeah, that's lovely, but the stages it's used in that example are quite long.
If you have short stages it doesn't reach the note in time.
That seems very unpractical (now I get it..)! That is a pretty obvious feature that should be implemented then if possible

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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by Gringo Starr » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:30 pm

Cpaf wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 am
funny the glide seems to be one of the most musical ones I've heard from a sequencer. Can't stop watching this one:
It works perfectly in that example and that’s one of the videos that sent me in the direction of buying this module.

I never said it was unmusical. I just said it’s not very musical the way it’s been implemented. It would be an amazing feature to have control over or at least if it was implemented to hit and define the note that is set on that stage.
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:53 pm

Another poster said it was unmusical
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Re: Frap Tools USTA

Post by peachesandbacon » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:09 pm

Gringo Starr wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:30 pm
Cpaf wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:36 am
funny the glide seems to be one of the most musical ones I've heard from a sequencer. Can't stop watching this one:
It works perfectly in that example and that’s one of the videos that sent me in the direction of buying this module.

I never said it was unmusical. I just said it’s not very musical the way it’s been implemented. It would be an amazing feature to have control over or at least if it was implemented to hit and define the note that is set on that stage.
Agreed. It would be much more useful and musical if the default was to reach the note in time. or to be able to adjust the time it takes in the track settings.

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