Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

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taylor12k
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by taylor12k » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:32 pm

just got my lubadh today from control. very excited.. i was initially trying to avoid getting one.. but after scrubbing around jason's 2-hour video on top of cabin fever i decided to order one and.. while only having it for a couple of hours, am really excited about it. very easy to use.. and sounds great. i haven't dug into delay mode or anything like that.

i do, however, have one question and, seemingly, one major disappointment.. and that comes with how it handles pitch shifting and varispeed control.. quite surprised they did it the "phono/morphagene" way instead of standard tape machine or pedal looper way.... ill explain...

on a standard tape machine/tape loop, or even most pedal loopers... you record a sound into a loop at whatever pitch your source is... and, no matter what speed the tape is set to, your resulting loop is the SAME PITCH AS YOUR INPUT WAS.... you can then speed the tape up or down, thus transposing what you just recorded, and then overdub another layer on top of a pitch shifted layer .

but on the Lubadh.. and also both make noise recorders... the setting of the speed knob affects the recording *before* you record.. so if i play a middle C into the device i only get a middle C out if the speed knob is set to "unity".. but if the speed knob is transported and i play a middle C i hear a *transposed* sound coming out ... so, you can't layer different speeds and pitches on these devices.. everything is affected by the speed knob before it even hits the "tape".....

(i hope that makes some sort of sense.. it's hard to explain,.. i think i've really murdered that explanation

maybe to make the explanation less wordy, using "middle C" as an example:

on a tape machine/pedal looper:

1. play a middle C into the looper
2. you hear a middle C looped, no matter where your speed knob is
3. transpose your loop down an octave. you now hear one octave below middle C playing back
4. overdub a new middle C on top of your low C
5. you now hear a loop with a low C and a middle C playing back

on the lubadh/make noise:
1. play a middle C into the looper
2. you only hear middle C playing back if the speed knob is at unity
3. transpose your loop down an octave. you now hear one octave below middle C playing back
4. overdub a new middle C on top of the low C
5. your new middle C automatically transposes down because the speed knob sets the speed for ALL layers/overdubs so you hear two layers of low C instead of one low and one middle)...

but this is the way Lubadh seems to do it.. just like the make noise devices.. as opposed to most pedal loopers and all tape machines... with Lubadh attempting to mimic tape so much i'm surprised its done this way. it robs you of a lot of creative possibilities of being able to overdub "regular" pitches on top of slowed down or sped up pitches.

unless there is a mode/setting i'm missing on the Lubadh??? i hope? (but don't think there is one)...

anyone else disappointed by this? or is my explanation way too confusing? sorry for the long post!!

- taylor
Last edited by taylor12k on Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cackland
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by cackland » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:39 pm

I don’t have this module and do plan on getting it, but your point seems valid. This could easily be implemented in an alternate mode in a firmware upgrade.

Have you reached out to Jason about this?

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taylor12k
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by taylor12k » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:41 pm

not yet.., only having had the module for a few hours i've been trying to learn and see if i'm missing something.

never understood why loopers would ever be implemented in this more restrictive way.. especially one that's trying to emulate tape!
cackland wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:39 pm
I don’t have this module and do plan on getting it, but your point seems valid. This could easily be implemented in an alternate mode in a firmware upgrade.

Have you reached out to Jason about this?

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Brennanib » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:26 pm

taylor12k wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:32 pm
just got my lubadh today from control. very excited.. i was initially trying to avoid getting one.. but after scrubbing around jason's 2-hour video on top of cabin fever i decided to order one and.. while only having it for a couple of hours, am really excited about it. very easy to use.. and sounds great. i haven't dug into delay mode or anything like that.

i do, however, have one question and, seemingly, one major disappointment.. and that comes with how it handles pitch shifting and varispeed control.. quite surprised they did it the "phono/morphagene" way instead of standard tape machine or pedal looper way.... ill explain...

on a standard tape machine/tape loop, or even most pedal loopers... you record a sound into a loop at whatever pitch your source is... and, no matter what speed the tape is set to, your resulting loop is the SAME PITCH AS YOUR INPUT WAS.... you can then speed the tape up or down, thus transposing what you just recorded, and then overdub another layer on top of a pitch shifted layer .

but on the Lubadh.. and also both make noise recorders... the setting of the speed knob affects the recording *before* you record.. so if i play a middle C into the device i only get a middle C out if the speed knob is set to "unity".. but if the speed knob is transported and i play a middle C i hear a *transposed* sound coming out ... so, you can't layer different speeds and pitches on these devices.. everything is affected by the speed knob before it even hits the "tape".....

(i hope that makes some sort of sense.. it's hard to explain,.. i think i've really murdered that explanation

maybe to make the explanation less wordy, using "middle C" as an example:

on a tape machine/pedal looper:

1. play a middle C into the looper
2. you hear a middle C looped, no matter where your speed knob is
3. transpose your loop down an octave. you now hear one octave below middle C playing back
4. overdub a new middle C on top of your low C
5. you now hear a loop with a low C and a middle C playing back

on the lubadh/make noise:
1. play a middle C into the looper
2. you only hear middle C playing back if the speed knob is at unity
3. transpose your loop down an octave. you now hear one octave below middle C playing back
4. overdub a new middle C on top of the low C
5. your new middle C automatically transposes down because the speed knob sets the speed for ALL layers/overdubs so you hear two layers of low C instead of one low and one middle)...

but this is the way Lubadh seems to do it.. just like the make noise devices.. as opposed to most pedal loopers and all tape machines... with Lubadh attempting to mimic tape so much i'm surprised its done this way. it robs you of a lot of creative possibilities of being able to overdub "regular" pitches on top of slowed down or sped up pitches.

unless there is a mode/setting i'm missing on the Lubadh??? i hope? (but don't think there is one)...

anyone else disappointed by this? or is my explanation way too confusing? sorry for the long post!!

- taylor
Just was experiencing the same with MG and have really had my eye on Lubadh. interesting perspective I've thought on this before and seems would be pretty simple to implement but :despair: idk
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corbetta
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by corbetta » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:31 pm

It has to do with how the record and playback “heads” in a digital sampler work. If you look up the long video Jason explains why that is in terms of the relationship of the moving “heads” starting about 20 minutes in.

You can bounce audio between the two decks to get the kind of effect you described in the first scenario.

Keep in mind that with a “real” tape player you couldn’t execute a lot of these techniques in real time without rewinding, reversing the tape, splicing, etc.

The digital format allows for instant changes but in order for the recordings to exist in a compatible world in terms of length, sample rate, etc there needs to be some “workarounds” and behind the scenes subterfuge that result in the behavior you described in scenario #2
Last edited by corbetta on Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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taylor12k
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by taylor12k » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:06 pm

thanks for the explanation.. and i'll def be watching jason's entire video...

bouncing between decks seems like a good workaround for this.. and probably opens up some other cool possibilities, too... i haven't figured out how to bounce yet (unless it's as simple as connecting one out to the other in)...

i have no doubt jason has his reasons as he's an excellent designer...
corbetta wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:31 pm
It has to do with how the record and playback “heads” in a digital sampler work. If you look up the long video Jason explains why that is in terms of the relationship of the moving “heads” starting about 20 minutes in.

You can bounce audio between the two decks to get the kind of effect you described in the first scenario.

Keep in mind that with a “real” tape player you couldn’t execute a lot of these techniques in real time without rewinding, reversing the tape, splicing, etc.

The digital format allows for instant changes but in order for the recordings to exist in a compatible world in terms of length, sample rate, etc there needs to be some “workaround so and behind the scenes subterfuge that result in the behavior you described in scenario #2

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by scragz » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:50 pm

taylor12k wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:06 pm
i haven't figured out how to bounce yet (unless it's as simple as connecting one out to the other in)...
Even simpler as the outs and ins are normal'd together in a figure 8.

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taylor12k
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by taylor12k » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:47 pm

anyone know if the input accepts line/non-euro level? (not in studio now to try...)

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Arneb » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:19 pm

taylor12k wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:47 pm
anyone know if the input accepts line/non-euro level? (not in studio now to try...)
Line levels are significantly lower than eurorack levels. Which means that you can't fry your Lúbadh (nor anything else in your rack) with it, if that was the question.

As to whether things would work as intended... no idea what you're trying to do, but if we're talking about the Lúbadh audio ins, you'll end up with a very softly recorded loop. Mixing or overdubbing that with audio from elsewhere in your rack is probably unworkable, your racked VCO would simply shout your external source down. If you're trying to derive CV from your external source by using an envelope follower or something, you'll probably find that the unamplified CV level is too low to reliably act as a trigger/gate for Lúbadh's transport inputs (nor anything else in your rack).

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by pelang » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:36 am

taylor12k wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:32 pm


i do, however, have one question and, seemingly, one major disappointment.. and that comes with how it handles pitch shifting and varispeed control.. quite surprised they did it the "phono/morphagene" way instead of standard tape machine or pedal looper way.... ill explain...
I had the same thoughts as I am used to work with Mannequins W/.
But once I got used to two tapes it became a microcosmos in itself.
I think its a brilliant module.

I have problems with the crossfader section. On both crossfaders, I had digital noise artifacts on a very specific spot. The same happens when using CV.
And the crossfader input and output is clipping the signal. (even with very little input level) Using the input/output of the channel is fine.

I was able to swap a Lubah with my local shop and it's better now. However, the input section of the aux still distorts the signal (even with a very low signal). As well there is on the same spot of the crossfader the "noise" area. The noise is less intense and different in character. When moving over the spot there is no loud "click" any more which is good. But because the Aux input distorts the signal I don't use it and so far I use a doepfer matrix mixer for a workaround.

I am in contact with Jason about that but still waiting for an answer. Understandable with the covid issue.

I use the lubadh a lot and it's a very nice looper which I enjoy a lot. Here a few tracks i made


There are a few things I wish:
- quantize mode for pitch knobs (for example press shift for 5 sec)
- slew adjustment for CV speed (down to no slew for quick pitch jumps) for example: hold both shifts and adjust with speed knob
- pre/post tape speed recoding

and:
the rec. pushbutton are quite loud when working with mic's or playing lowercase sets in chamber music settings (the audience will hear the clicks).
For example, MI marbles pushbutton are dead silence but may are limited with the color range
Does anyone knows the mouser part number for the pushbutton instruo use? I am wondering if i can hack them and replace the "spring" element with something quieter?

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taylor12k
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by taylor12k » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:06 am

yes, i’m well aware of the difference between euro and line levels... it some euro modules (morphogenetic and er301 spring to mind) happily accept both at their inputs....
Arneb wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:19 pm
taylor12k wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:47 pm
anyone know if the input accepts line/non-euro level? (not in studio now to try...)
Line levels are significantly lower than eurorack levels. Which means that you can't fry your Lúbadh (nor anything else in your rack) with it, if that was the question.

As to whether things would work as intended... no idea what you're trying to do, but if we're talking about the Lúbadh audio ins, you'll end up with a very softly recorded loop. Mixing or overdubbing that with audio from elsewhere in your rack is probably unworkable, your racked VCO would simply shout your external source down. If you're trying to derive CV from your external source by using an envelope follower or something, you'll probably find that the unamplified CV level is too low to reliably act as a trigger/gate for Lúbadh's transport inputs (nor anything else in your rack).

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by midigods » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm

akavalve wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm
midigods wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:43 pm
Do any Lubadh owners have demo videos they can share? I haven't found many good demos on youtube yet. Thanks.
I just got mine...are you looking for 'how to' or 'this is what I did'?
looking for some ambient demos that people have done with it. thx.

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by midigods » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:30 pm

midigods wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm
akavalve wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm
midigods wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:43 pm
Do any Lubadh owners have demo videos they can share? I haven't found many good demos on youtube yet. Thanks.
I just got mine...are you looking for 'how to' or 'this is what I did'?
looking for some ambient demos that people have done with it. thx.
midigods wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm
akavalve wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm
midigods wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:43 pm
Do any Lubadh owners have demo videos they can share? I haven't found many good demos on youtube yet. Thanks.
I just got mine...are you looking for 'how to' or 'this is what I did'?
looking for some ambient demos that people have done with it. I've already watched most of the overview posted by Instruo.

Control
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Control » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:08 pm

I’ve had my eye on this thing since it was announced. Hopefully I’ll be able to pick one up in the future.

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Sleeepwalk » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:40 pm

Just copped one from cntrl mod. Should be arriving in the mail in the next few days.

Just to note ive seen some comparisons between this and the morphagene and I think they’re worlds apart and would work very well together.

I think samplers/loopers can compliment each other very well. I’d love to have them all lol ;)

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Sleeepwalk » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:42 pm

midigods wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:30 pm
midigods wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm
akavalve wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm
midigods wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:43 pm
Do any Lubadh owners have demo videos they can share? I haven't found many good demos on youtube yet. Thanks.
I just got mine...are you looking for 'how to' or 'this is what I did'?
looking for some ambient demos that people have done with it. thx.
midigods wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:28 pm
akavalve wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:55 pm
midigods wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:43 pm
Do any Lubadh owners have demo videos they can share? I haven't found many good demos on youtube yet. Thanks.
I just got mine...are you looking for 'how to' or 'this is what I did'?
looking for some ambient demos that people have done with it. I've already watched most of the overview posted by Instruo.

Would also love to see a demo of someone using this in an ambient setting and also maybe a demo of how the tapes decay after bouncing back and forth.

Really curious if there’s any compression and how it might sound running a finished track through it a couple times.

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scragz
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by scragz » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:45 pm

Are there trimmers for record level? Mine seems awfully quiet. Recorded loops are quieter than the source and if I turn on delay mode the through volume is cut in half. This is with input and output all the way up, newest firmware.

I've only had it for a few days and it's possible there is some user error involved but I did watch the entire 2 hour overview and read the manual several times.

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Sleeepwalk » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:43 pm

Getting one of these in the mail tomorrow.

Maybe somewhere he can help me I want to use it with a foot switch is it possible to use just any footswitch that I can patch a 1/4” -> 1/8” cable into. Or do I need some form of a foot controller module?

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macio
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by macio » Fri May 01, 2020 3:12 am

You would need sth like Doepfer A177-2.

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Granular » Fri May 01, 2020 5:38 am

@pelang

Very nice Tracks you made with the Lubadh :yay: :hail:

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by Acquadar » Fri May 01, 2020 5:50 am

Pelang great track...

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by pelang » Fri May 01, 2020 7:30 am

Thanks !

Those are the "instruments" I recorded with Lubadh and then just bounce it between the tapes:
IMG_4695.JPG
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by DonDriss » Tue May 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Hey guys. First of all major respect to InstruO on this module. I bought it as soon as it was possible here in Europe.

I have a question. I am used to perform on many different loop pedals with external synths, I have a little problem with the lubadh.
Its Like my first loop is really tight however when i overdub A latency/delay is introduced on the new layer.. and it is somehow impossible to overdub anything that Will Stay in time. Am I missing something here? I Can manage to make a decent loop if i manually play the new layer with a physical latency..

Anyone experiencing this?

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scragz
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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by scragz » Tue May 05, 2020 6:22 pm

Yeah I can't get the lengths right ever even using exactly triggered record from clock divider. It's like it rounds the durations, same with how the length and start aren't really fluid but skip little chunks.

Best luck I've had is putting the clock out from one into the retrigger on the other with time all the way down so it sends a trigger at the start.

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Re: Instruo Lúbadh stereo looper

Post by James_Fredrickson » Wed May 06, 2020 5:43 pm

I'm very disappointed in this module so far for the following reasons.

1.) Erase button doesn't always work. I sometimes have to press multiple times to enable.
2.) Second channel will randomly slow down to standstill for no reason and with nothing touching capacitive face plate.
3.) Sometimes audio will remain in buffer after erase.

Has anyone with this module experienced any of these issues? For such an expensive module, I'm really let down :/

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