Hertz Donut III vs Piston Honda III

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Hertz Donut III vs Piston Honda III

Post by Andy137 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:44 am

What's the difference between Hertz Donut III and Piston Honda III?
Both are double oscillators? Piston Honda is wavetable... What else? Maybe in workflow of variety of sounds? Versatility?

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Ivo Ivanov
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Post by Ivo Ivanov » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:05 pm

Two different synthesis methods, thus the focus for each module is different. They share some similarities simply due to the methodology of the creator, but sonically they are going for different results.

HDMK3 is concentrating on PD and FM synthesis with lots of cross modulation possibilities, etc.

PHMK3 concentrates on wavetable morphing and wavetable synthesis in general.

There are surely other differences, but these are probably the most notable/relevant to your question.

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Post by Andy137 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:07 am

Glitchmachines wrote:Two different synthesis methods, thus the focus for each module is different. They share some similarities simply due to the methodology of the creator, but sonically they are going for different results.

HDMK3 is concentrating on PD and FM synthesis with lots of cross modulation possibilities, etc.

PHMK3 concentrates on wavetable morphing and wavetable synthesis in general.

There are surely other differences, but these are probably the most notable/relevant to your question.
Thank you. And what about them in timbral aspects? As I suppose, Hertz Donut is both lead/pad and percussive but Pistol Honda is more for leads/pads/textures? Am I wrong?

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Post by hawkfuzz » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:25 am

That's subjective
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Ivo Ivanov
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Post by Ivo Ivanov » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:54 am

Andy137 wrote:
Thank you. And what about them in timbral aspects? As I suppose, Hertz Donut is both lead/pad and percussive but Pistol Honda is more for leads/pads/textures? Am I wrong?
As hawkfuzz mentioned, It's definitely subjective. That all comes down to patching and which other modules you pair up with them, etc.

I think it would help not to think of them as filling traditional musical roles like "lead", "bass", "stabs", etc. and instead think of them more timbrally (EDIT: as in tonal "personality" rather than musical function, since that is indeed totally subjective).

I find it to be a good habit in general because it will help you think of the modular more openly.. in less confined terms. Of course this somewhat depends on you, since it will differ depending on your musical background, creative outlook, etc. and you may simply feel more at home thinking of these tools as filling a particular musical role. I tend to think of the modules more like ingredients in a giant sonic kitchen.

Anyway, both oscillators can cover the territories you listed and then some, but in my experience it's mostly a matter of sonic character and workflow in the end.

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Post by Wick » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:34 pm

I have both I mean piston m3 and ph mk2 to feed lfo the phmk3and hertz donut mk3 I would said get both jejejej

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Post by Sinamsis » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:00 pm

It's apples and oranges and both complement each other nicely. I have both, as well as the mk II of both. I have not completely mastered either yet, and they impress me and teach me something every time I use them. It's actually 3 oscillators for the HD mk III, so you can get some weird 3 OP FM going with a fairly comprehensive mod matrix that can be controlled with one input/knob. It breaks away from the Buchla 259/complex oscillator paradigm that the previous model was inspired by. The PH mk III is two independent wave table oscillators. They both have various unison modes. PH can process external audio. HD has wave shaping options and phase distortion. Both can be very grimey and extreme, but both are a little more hifi and can be more pristine as well, particularly compared to previous offerings (IMO of course). They are both incredibly versatile and capable of a host of different sounds. With the two combined, the options probably are not limitless, but it feels that way to me.

Here's some knob twiddling with both:


[video][/video]



[video][/video]



And I used both together here:



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Post by mt3 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:58 pm

Piston Honda mk III
* allows you to load your own waveforms and wavebanks
see waveeditonline.com for example wavebanks available
* each channel has a mode to process external signals (Hertz Donut mk III does not have this facility)
* very simple FM facilities compared to the Hertz Donut mk III

Hertz Donut mk III
* more advanced FM options
* has a 3rd oscillator for modulation
* 96khz operation

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Post by Andy137 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:19 am

mt3 wrote:Piston Honda mk III
* allows you to load your own waveforms and wavebanks
see waveeditonline.com for example wavebanks available
* each channel has a mode to process external signals (Hertz Donut mk III does not have this facility)
* very simple FM facilities compared to the Hertz Donut mk III

Hertz Donut mk III
* more advanced FM options
* has a 3rd oscillator for modulation
* 96khz operation
Thank you for the explanation. It's rather clear according to priority.

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Post by nios » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:59 am

I like to think of HD as similar in parts to a complex oscillator in its normal use, it's completely different from the PH ... Their sonic territory could in theory overlap sometimes, however they'll more likely be divergent 99% of the time.

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Post by autopoiesis » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:50 am

If you want the PH to converge closer to the HD in sound territory, load in some sine harmonic series wave sets and phase distortion wave sets, and stick with those for your two operators. The TZFM on the PH sounds really good to my ears and if you use waves like those you can pull off high frequency ratio spreads between your operators and the dissonant territories that are morphs in between harmonic steps. Thought about replacing my DPO with the new HD to accompany my PH but after giving it a shot I felt like the way I've rigged up my PH leaves it overlapping a bit too much for that to be a wise move.

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:13 pm

I used to have the Piston Honda MKIII but decided to move towards the Hertz Donut MKIII in the end.

Here is an album that I wrote with the Piston Honda MKIII:

https://godiswar.bandcamp.com/album/wha ... my-consent

Here is a track showcasing the Hertz Donut doing a lead over the beat:
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Post by autopoiesis » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:45 am

lead sounds phat

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:17 pm

autopoiesis wrote:lead sounds phat
Thank you! It was the first thing I ever wrote with it and I am still in so much love with it. Harvestman 4 Lyfe.
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Post by Besfar » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:59 pm

Both are evil.

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Post by Besfar » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Crimesofthecrown wrote: Here is a track showcasing the Hertz Donut doing a lead over the beat:
Oh, wow. Thats truly terrifying.
Im a fan!

Didnt find the album :(

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Post by Crimesofthecrown » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:31 pm

Besfar wrote:
Crimesofthecrown wrote: Here is a track showcasing the Hertz Donut doing a lead over the beat:
Oh, wow. Thats truly terrifying.
Im a fan!

Didnt find the album :(
Thank you so much!

The album I've actually have taken down for the time being. Its going to be released hopefully in January on cassette.


Still would like to put out there that the HD and PH MKIII's are some of the illest sound sources out there in modular currently.
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Post by Besfar » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:33 pm

I agree, although i find the Shapeshifter can go to most of the places HD and PH goes, and is probably more comprehensive.

Still, PH and HD are more immediate, and have more ice and death closer to the surface.

They do beautyful very nice too :spin:

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Post by mt3 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Besfar wrote:I agree, although i find the Shapeshifter can go to most of the places HD and PH goes, and is probably more comprehensive.

Still, PH and HD are more immediate, and have more ice and death closer to the surface.

They do beautyful very nice too :spin:
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Post by Sinamsis » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:10 pm

mt3 wrote:
Besfar wrote:I agree, although i find the Shapeshifter can go to most of the places HD and PH goes, and is probably more comprehensive.

Still, PH and HD are more immediate, and have more ice and death closer to the surface.

They do beautyful very nice too :spin:
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Haha I still consider snagging a Cyclebox II again, it was a lot of fun. But I sold it to get an HD mk II! Haha, it was inspired by the HD mk I wasn't it?

Anyways, the Cyclebox was way too convoluted for me with the dip-switches. It did sound nice though. The Shapeshifter is convoluted for me in a different way, but more immediate than the Cyclebox. And to me, the Shapeshifter was the logical continuation of the Cyclebox. Still, I don't find myself reaching for the Shapeshifter often, though I can't bring myself to get rid of it. Maybe I just need to rekindle my love for it. In general I find that Cylonix modules have a ton of features but they do sacrifice UI for feature set. The PH mk III and HD mk III are so immediate for me, feature packed and sound great to me. Plus PH mk III allows for easy exchange of wavetables. Aside from this difference, the architecture of the HD mk III is pretty unique compared to other euro modules, and the Shapeshifter has a completely different feature set. I really don't think it can do anything similar to what the HD mk III can do. Just my two cents.

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Post by Besfar » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 am

Sinamsis wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Besfar wrote:I agree, although i find the Shapeshifter can go to most of the places HD and PH goes, and is probably more comprehensive.

Still, PH and HD are more immediate, and have more ice and death closer to the surface.

They do beautyful very nice too :spin:
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Haha I still consider snagging a Cyclebox II again, it was a lot of fun. But I sold it to get an HD mk II! Haha, it was inspired by the HD mk I wasn't it?
Aside from this difference, the architecture of the HD mk III is pretty unique compared to other euro modules, and the Shapeshifter has a completely different feature set. I really don't think it can do anything similar to what the HD mk III can do. Just my two cents.
Oh? I find many overlapping soundscapes between the three actually :) Each one is unique though, of course.

Love them all, so im not debation which is better, but i find the ss really well suited in a smaller case, as its a universe of its own.

I keep the hdmk3 and phmk3 in my 3x84 hp main case, and use the shapeshifter in my 84 hp travellers skiff. It forces me to focus on the ss, as i did find as you say, its easier to reach for the more immediate ime modules in a bigger patch :)

The hdmk3 though, oh la la. Its so great. Drone, or through a lpg :drunkhomer:

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Post by autopoiesis » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:29 am

the shapeshifter can't pull a 3-operator fm trick out of its otherwise deep hat, or allow you to detune the fm modulator after locking it to a frequency ratio. these kinds of things make the FM and audio-rate PD so three dimensional sounding on the HD MKIII.

and just in wavetable stakes the PH MKIII beats shapeshifter by miles. I never liked 80% of the wavetables in my shapeshifter and you can only morph on one axis.

but the shapeshifter ofc has no comparison in the amount of control you have over its waveshaping and wave combinations. I miss it sometimes but prefer having more immediate and specialized oscillators like DPO, PH MKIII and HD MKIII

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Post by Besfar » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:14 am

autopoiesis wrote:the shapeshifter can't pull a 3-operator fm trick out of its otherwise deep hat, or allow you to detune the fm modulator after locking it to a frequency ratio. these kinds of things make the FM and audio-rate PD so three dimensional sounding on the HD MKIII.

and just in wavetable stakes the PH MKIII beats shapeshifter by miles. I never liked 80% of the wavetables in my shapeshifter and you can only morph on one axis.

but the shapeshifter ofc has no comparison in the amount of control you have over its waveshaping and wave combinations. I miss it sometimes but prefer having more immediate and specialized oscillators like DPO, PH MKIII and HD MKIII
Agreed! I have them all, ss, dpo, hd and pd. I dont see myself ever needing another oscillator :bananaguitar:

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Post by SavageMessiah » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:04 pm

autopoiesis wrote: and just in wavetable stakes the PH MKIII beats shapeshifter by miles. I never liked 80% of the wavetables in my shapeshifter and you can only morph on one axis.
And the morphing never seemed as smooth to me. I got PH MK3 exactly because I wanted a better wavetable experience and man does it deliver. I really like that you can use it (slightly awkwardly, imo) as two completely separate oscillators - I used it as the only osc in a intellijel palette case and was amazed at the range of stuff I could wring out of it. It's got a permanent place i my oscillator pantheon of PH3, SS, CS-L, and plaits. I've got a HD3 too but it hasn't really grabbed me yet - I think it'll happen though, just gotta keep poking at it.

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Post by Jrldrs » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:55 pm

Besfar wrote:I agree, although i find the Shapeshifter can go to most of the places HD and PH goes, and is probably more comprehensive.

Still, PH and HD are more immediate, and have more ice and death closer to the surface.

They do beautyful very nice too :spin:
Love my PH

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