WARNING: Avoid Buy Try Keep Sell

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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2disbetter
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Post by 2disbetter » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:53 am

lisa wrote: There is also the question of whether this deal has anything to do with BoredBrain (rather than just Jason). To me (and others may disagree) it still looks like the OP is angry with Jason and tries to get revenge by going after his business.
I think this is the material point many are trying to make. Proportional actions are important. A person slighted you, not a company. So slandering the company is proportionally inappropriate.

On top of that, in general every time I've seen an avoid this company thread, it has been blatantly clear that the individual has an ax to grind and to a lesser degree a genuine grievance.

Unless you believe everyone should be fired after making one mistake, then surely you can see the hypocrisy in this line of thinking.

NONE of what I'm saying here means that the revenge rating that was received is ok. It is VERY MUCH not ok, and that individual should be called out for it. This of course presumes there weren't any pre-discussed conditions that we aren't aware of.
Last edited by 2disbetter on Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shledge
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Post by Shledge » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:48 am

If said revenge comment even exists. If it does, then fair enough to call out, otherwise it just seems like someone has an axe to grind for some weird reason.

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Post by BlinkyLights » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 am

lisa wrote:I think that this discussion gets flawed due to the fact that we seem to have very different views on the importance of actual and theoretical issues.

Those that feel that poor packaging is an issue regardless of whether the product was damaged or not naturally feels that the OP was right in lowering the score which makes the poor score that the OP got in return 100% unjust.

Those of us that think that if the product was undamaged then there is no issue may feel that the lowered score given by the OP was unjust.

I think this is why some want to discuss the score given to the OP and others want to discuss the fact that the module wasn’t damaged.

There is also the question of whether this deal has anything to do with BoredBrain (rather than just Jason). To me (and others may disagree) it still looks like the OP is angry with Jason and tries to get revenge by going after his business.
Just discussing, no vested interest or kooky motivations...

Doesn't the presumption that there's *any* justification for the retaliatory feedback rely upon an assumption/expectation that 5 starts is the norm for simply "good enough" service? Which totally isn't true... and certainly not a universal sentiment.

I don't see any scenarios where the retaliatory feedback was warranted.

I don't think any seller should expect 5-stars for merely "good enough" service.

And I don't think the buyer choosing to leave 4-stars for what they received is in any way inappropriate. Frankly, it was generous.

Everything that followed is on the Seller.

And, in one of the posts the Buyer made it clear that the Seller is indeed the same person as the BB store, an account I understood as having been used in lieu of a BB Reverb store, not a Personal accout of the BB guy or anyone else.

Unless I've missed something (totally possible), that's ^^ the real deal here, and most everyoje else is mistaken.

If I'm wrong I'd like to know.

Anyway, seemed right to post.

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Post by mskala » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:45 am

2disbetter wrote:On top of that, in general every time I've seen an avoid this company thread, it has been blatantly clear that the individual has an ax to grind and to a lesser degree a genuine grievance.
Such threads are at best unverifiable, and usually also involve grey areas and two-sided stories of which we only hear one side. Given the trouble they cause, I'm surprised these threads are still allowed here. But then, I also think we'd be better off without "List of modules I could have found with a ModularGrid search 2019" threads and the community keeps coming back for more of those.

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Post by electricanada » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:51 am

We don’t need five pages of this. It should have been posted in the existing sticky thread. But consumer reviews and warnings are a useful part of MW. I’d hate to see them banned.
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krell

Post by krell » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:09 am

mskala wrote: Such threads are at best unverifiable, and usually also involve grey areas and two-sided stories of which we only hear one side. Given the trouble they cause, I'm surprised these threads are still allowed here.
Given how much free advertisement companies get out of forums like muffwiggler, it's more than fair that threads discussing negative experiences, even when possibly not completely objective, are also allowed.

I was on TheGearPage for many years and it was absolutely filled to the brim with shills who would attack you if you mentioned something mildly negative about a hyped manufacturer there. I had e-mails proving that a manufacturer hyped there acted like a childish ass, I posted the proof as it was requested, and was then suspended because I wasn't allowed to post e-mails.

The manufacturer in question used another manufacturer to make his product, and that manufacturer refused to continue to do business with him because of how he behaved.

It's very common for forums to put a higher burden of proof on users saying something mildly negative, than on people saying that every new hyped up thing is the best thing since sliced bread.

It's only fair to allow both. Even with the sometimes unfair/non-objective negative post, it still usually is a lot less than the positive advertisement companies get out of forums.

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Post by 2disbetter » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:14 am

Of course feedback of all types is what makes MW worthwhile. Some people talk about how the OD forums or Lines are so great, but no matter how great the communities there are, there is a vested interest in those two companies products on those forums. MW is a neutral ground not owned by any of the companies. This is something that users here truly benefit from.

My only suggestion, is that if you are going to try to slander a company, that you measure your action appropriately. Hurting a company doesn't usually hurt just a single person, but many employees and their families.

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Post by mskala » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:20 am

krell wrote:It's very common for forums to put a higher burden of proof on users saying something mildly negative, than on people saying that every new hyped up thing is the best thing since sliced bread.
Starting a whole thread with the title "WARNING" and becoming angry and defensive when people ask obvious questions about the allegation, is not just "saying something mildly negative." I think we could draw that distinction in a rule, and allow open discussion and both positive and negative comments about manufacturers, without allowing this specific pattern of unproductive call-out thread.

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Post by soundshaper » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:40 am

This is Adam from Boredbrain. I am just seeing this thread, so I figure I should respond officially even though this has nothing to do with Boredbrain at all. But for those who care, here it is.

The OP purchased a module from my co-worker Jason directly, not from Boredbrain. He sent the module using our shipping system, but did not change the default return address to his own, so it said it was from Boredbrain. When it arrived, the buyer felt the packaging was insufficient so he commented about that and left a 4/5 stars feedback. Jason left a 4/5 stars feedback also, which is considered Good and he does this for regular transactions. In my opinion, 4/5 is is no way a negative feedback and is certainly not "shitty feedback".

The OP proceeded to send him a very aggressive message about the 4/5 feedback, and before he even had a chance to respond, the OP sent an email to me at Boredbrain through our website:

"Wow!
I had been looking at getting the Transmutron or INTERFX.
As they look great.
But after dealing with you on Reverb, nope.
I will alert others to your practices--shitty packaging and treatment of customers."

When Jason was back in the office and had a chance to talk to me about it, he sent a message through Reverb stating that if the buyer was unhappy with the purchase or the module was damaged, he would gladly refund the purchase, and requested that he not email his place of business with threats because of his unhappy experience with a personal transaction.

The OP eventually messaged back again with more aggressive language and complaints about 4/5 being "revenge feedback" and accused Jason of "acting like a child". Jason chose not to respond or escalate the situation further, as the buyer was not asking for a refund, he seemed to be asking for a fight.

The claim there was no communication or that because of this Boredbrain "treats its customers like shit" and that the OP was "attacked" (?!) is absolutely absurd. We love what we do and couldn't do it without our customers.

Lastly, I'm not the type of person to ever resort to name calling, and Jason surely never did in this situation. That being said though, in my opinion the OP has some kind of other emotional issues going on, and is clearly a liar.

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Post by BaloErets » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:02 am

soundshaper wrote:This is Adam from Boredbrain. I am just seeing this thread, so I figure I should respond officially even though this has nothing to do with Boredbrain at all. But for those who care, here it is.

The OP purchased a module from my co-worker Jason directly, not from Boredbrain. He sent the module using our shipping system, but did not change the default return address to his own, so it said it was from Boredbrain. When it arrived, the buyer felt the packaging was insufficient so he commented about that and left a 4/5 stars feedback. Jason left a 4/5 stars feedback also, which is considered Good and he does this for regular transactions. In my opinion, 4/5 is is no way a negative feedback and is certainly not "shitty feedback".

The OP proceeded to send him a very aggressive message about the 4/5 feedback, and before he even had a chance to respond, the OP sent an email to me at Boredbrain through our website:

"Wow!
I had been looking at getting the Transmutron or INTERFX.
As they look great.
But after dealing with you on Reverb, nope.
I will alert others to your practices--shitty packaging and treatment of customers."

When Jason was back in the office and had a chance to talk to me about it, he sent a message through Reverb stating that if the buyer was unhappy with the purchase or the module was damaged, he would gladly refund the purchase, and requested that he not email his place of business with threats because of his unhappy experience with a personal transaction.

The OP eventually messaged back again with more aggressive language and complaints about 4/5 being "revenge feedback" and accused Jason of "acting like a child". Jason chose not to respond or escalate the situation further, as the buyer was not asking for a refund, he seemed to be asking for a fight.

The claim there was no communication or that because of this Boredbrain "treats its customers like shit" and that the OP was "attacked" (?!) is absolutely absurd. We love what we do and couldn't do it without our customers.

Lastly, I'm not the type of person to ever resort to name calling, and Jason surely never did in this situation. That being said though, in my opinion the OP has some kind of other emotional issues going on, and is clearly a liar.
Thanks for chiming in Adam. It's been a very 1-sided conversation so far, and I think that I'm not the only one that smelt something "fishy" in the air.

Mods, can we get the title of this thread changed as it clearly has nothing to do with Boredbrain?

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Post by Shledge » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:15 am

Knew there was more to the story. 8-)

I've seen this shite all the time in the 3D printing community - people making imflamatory threads with the companies eventually responding and showing the true story. I remember one being a disgruntled customer who claimed he received a faulty levelling sensor, when in reality he blew it up by putting... 110v through it. :roll:

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Post by lootacow » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:38 am

BoredBrain is dope. Both Adam and Jason are great guys, and I hope this thread does not negatively reflect on their business. I can say that their product is of great quality, and service is awesome. I do hope this gets resolved. Is 4/5 stars really something to be mad about? You’re willing to attempt to tarnish the name of someone’s business over something so puny? I think what the OP is doing is a very childish move.

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Post by krell » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:29 am

Shledge wrote:Knew there was more to the story. 8-)

I've seen this shite all the time in the 3D printing community - people making imflamatory threads with the companies eventually responding and showing the true story. I remember one being a disgruntled customer who claimed he received a faulty levelling sensor, when in reality he blew it up by putting... 110v through it. :roll:
I also do 3D printing and almost all the Chinese leveling sensors are faulty somehow or not properly calibrated. I had to order 5 sensors and pick the one that wasn't wildly inaccurate, and then go through 3 beds to get one that wasn't too concave to *work properly* and so on.

Same with almost all components used in them. It's the trade off for getting 3D printers that would otherwise cost 5-7x more for cheap :) Once the issues with the chinese ones (like Creality) have been resolved, they have seriously impressive performance though.

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Post by Shledge » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:31 am

The sensor in question wasn't even Chinese made - it was from TH3D. Guy has a good reputation in the 3D printing community.

I've gone out of it and sold my CR10s since, might get back into it some day.

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Post by krell » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:42 am

Shledge wrote:The sensor in question wasn't even Chinese made - it was from TH3D. Guy has a good reputation in the 3D printing community.

I've gone out of it and sold my CR10s since, might get back into it some day.
Yeah didn't really mean it had anything to do with this particular guys problem.

same here, I also had a CR-10S that I flashed for mesh bed leveling and then added a leveling sensor to. Worked well, but the amount of time it took to set up and calibrate every god damn time was too much.

The new Pro-series looks a bit neat in that it at least has quieter motors and fans. Did you ever look into the Prusia stuff?

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Post by Shledge » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:46 am

I stopped due to the constant clogs - turns out the tubing was causing issues in the end, but at that point I didn't find it enjoyable anymore. Just didn't have the time.

Didn't look at the pro series, but the Prusia stuff has it's own issues along with the fact the build volume was a bit on the small side for my liking.

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Post by krell » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:49 am

Shledge wrote:I stopped due to the constant clogs - turns out the tubing was causing issues in the end, but at that point I didn't find it enjoyable anymore. Just didn't have the time.

Didn't look at the pro series, but the Prusia stuff has it's own issues along with the fact the build volume was a bit on the small side for my liking.
Interesting, I never had any clog issues at all and didn't clean all that much. Did you measure the filament properly? The filament I bought always had a slightly higher diameter than was stated on the spool and so that had to be adjusted for in the splicer.

Of course the bowden tube does cause a bit of friction also.

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Post by jzwoopwoop » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:58 am

I think the most tragic part of this thread is that someone with a profile as amazing as LANDMIME!'s (both the profile name and the profile pic had me a chucklin') turns out to be so so so wrong.

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Post by denuir » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:11 am

I just bought some long patch cables from BoredBrain because I’ve bought from them before and really like the cable quality. Plus, they offer cables longer than 150cm! I’m pleased with BoredBrain’s business practices and recommend them.

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Post by jamos » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:24 am

I had never heard of BoredBrain prior to this. Time to Google, maybe reach for wallet...
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Post by bc3 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:30 am

Are we finished here?

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Post by Zymos » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:53 pm

Now that both parties have been heard from, I suggest we retire to the judges' chambers for deliberation. Only then will we able to send the lynch mob in the proper direction.
maybe you’d like to buy some nice used modules? Free cables with purchase!!

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=235367&p=3313562&h ... s#p3313562

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Post by Fog Door » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:02 pm

Now that both parties have been heard from, I suggest we retire to the judges' chambers for deliberation. Only then will we able to send the lynch mob in the proper direction.
Ha ha, good one, Zymos :tu:

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Post by rayultine » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:45 pm

I had assumed the "shitty revenge feedback" was one or two stars. It was FOUR. hahahahaha this place never ceases to amuse me

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Post by BaloErets » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:50 pm

rayultine wrote:I had assumed the "shitty revenge feedback" was one or two stars. It was FOUR. hahahahaha this place never ceases to amuse me
Exactly my thoughts. I think deducting 1 star for shitty packaging is valid. Likewise, deducting 1 star for shitty attitude is equally valid.

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