Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:09 pm

You’re going to say with judicious use of the looper aren't you ...

User avatar
Umcorps
Will patch for food
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Currently unrecognisable

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by Umcorps » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:19 pm

tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 pm
Also can a set a root note for the bar ?
Not sure if this is what you mean but one thing I’m planning to explore next is - assuming you have the expander - using one track to transpose another.

So if track A is your melody you then set track B to play 1 note only per bar and combine the CV out from A and B using a precision adder.

That works in my head. Need to find out if it works in reality.


Is that the sort of thing you mean?

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:49 pm

tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:51 pm
So am I right if setting the forced bar line it’s the 12 notes and 4 octaves are the amount of clicks before it resets on the one ?
So if I have all 12 notes lit and 4 octaves thats 16 counts ?
:hmm: :hmm:
Ah, not quite. Notes and octave lights display the top number of the time signature. The right column of durations show the bottom number. Because all click counts are in 1/16s you have to think in terms of "how many 1/16s fit into the time sig". See page 10 and 19 of the manual.

For example...

4/4 would be 4 notes + 1/4 duration lit = 16 clocks before reset
3/4 would be 3 notes + 1/4 duration lit = 12 clocks before reset
7/8 would be 7 notes + 1/8 duration lit = 14 clocks before reset
5/16 would be 5 notes + 1/16 duration lit = 5 clocks before reset

Does that make sense?
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm

tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 pm
Also can a set a root note for the bar ?
I'm not quite sure what you mean here but if I understand you correctly, then yes––our ear will hear the 'harmonic context' of a phrase based on the lowest note present and it's harmonic relation with all the others. If you initialise SIG and raise all the white notes you're "in" C Ionian simply by virtue of C being the lowest present note. However, the same random riffing will sound in D Dorian if you dropped just the D (or E Phrygian if you dropped the E, F Lydian by dropping the F and so on). Thus, all you need to do is use the Individual Note Octave function (Loop+note sliders) to drop the note you want to have as the harmonic root. :-)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Umcorps wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:19 pm
tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 pm
Also can a set a root note for the bar ?
one thing I’m planning to explore next is - assuming you have the expander - using one track to transpose another.
Excellent: and that will indeed work! The idea is actually mentioned in the 'Advanced Stochastic Cookbook' on page 16 of the manual ;)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
Umcorps
Will patch for food
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Currently unrecognisable

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by Umcorps » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm

There you go. That will teach me to read ALL the manual. 🤪

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:00 pm

Umcorps wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm
There you go. That will teach me to read ALL the manual. 🤪
Hahaha! :hihi: To be fair, it is quite long (but I hope useful). ;)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:59 pm

The manual is to be Frank a trifle confusing at times ...

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:15 pm

phinland wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm
Umcorps wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:19 pm
tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 pm
Also can a set a root note for the bar ?
one thing I’m planning to explore next is - assuming you have the expander - using one track to transpose another.
Excellent: and that will indeed work! The idea is actually mentioned in the 'Advanced Stochastic Cookbook' on page 16 of the manual ;)

How will one track transpose another ?

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:16 pm

I had quite good results throwing it through a OnC and transposing that with pp ...

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:43 am

Setting a faster stochastic melody and/or Loop on track 1, long drones on track 2 and then unity summing these lets SIG stochastically transpose itself across phrases of (repeating?) melody.

So what you’re saying is by adding the second voltage it will transpose ?

Interesting ...


:tu:

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:41 am

tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:59 pm
The manual is to be Frank a trifle confusing at times ...
Ah, very sorry to hear that. To be honest, that's the first bit of negative feedback I've had about the manual, but I totally accept that and of course, developmental feedback is always incredibly useful! Which bit/s didn't make sense and how do you think they could be better explained? I'm more than happy to amend any confusing sections...? Cheers! :-)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:47 am

tiny333 wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:43 am
Setting a faster stochastic melody and/or Loop on track 1, long drones on track 2 and then unity summing these lets SIG stochastically transpose itself across phrases of (repeating?) melody.
So what you’re saying is by adding the second voltage it will transpose ?
Interesting ...
:tu:
Exactly! As in the whole of Eurorack, the additive nature of V/oct wrt pitch makes transposition incredibly easy, so just think of one track and the to-be-transposed material and another as the 'transposition amount' and sum them!

The only point of course is that this won't apply any diatonic correction––that is, if Track 1 is riffing away 'in C Major' and Track 2 transposes up a P5th, it won't put you in G Major (i.e. it won't correct the F to an F#), you'd be in G Mixolydian (i.e. you'd need a quantiser to put you in G Major).
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
Naenyn
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:37 am
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by Naenyn » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:28 am

phinland wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:41 am
tiny333 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:59 pm
The manual is to be Frank a trifle confusing at times ...
Ah, very sorry to hear that. To be honest, that's the first bit of negative feedback I've had about the manual, but I totally accept that and of course, developmental feedback is always incredibly useful! Which bit/s didn't make sense and how do you think they could be better explained? I'm more than happy to amend any confusing sections...? Cheers! :-)
I felt the same as I was going through it today. I plan to reread it tomorrow and will try to provide some constructive feedback.
-n :ninja:

My racks on ModularGrid
Find me on Discord

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:28 am

Naenyn wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:28 am
The manual is to be Frank a trifle confusing at times
...
I felt the same as I was going through it today. I plan to reread it tomorrow and will try to provide some constructive feedback.
OK, great, many thanks––is this a general feeling among users?

As I say, the only feedback I've had on it so far as been extremely positive (but of course, that's always the easier to give and take!). It is a long manual, but I hope everything is clearly explained. If it's length (rather than clarity or prose) that is the issue, maybe a QuickStart is the answer?
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:51 am

Phin

Most of it is very clear I was/am still unclear on the bar lengths/timing signatures and the use of duration loop

The rest was very clear thank you

:tu: :tu:

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:17 am

tiny333 wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:51 am
Phin
Most of it is very clear I was/am still unclear on the bar lengths/timing signatures and the use of duration loop
The rest was very clear thank you
:tu: :tu:
Ah, thanks, good to hear! Yes, those are probably the two most complex bits to explain, particularly Barlines. Let me have another crack for you.


Loops

The point is that you are not pre-composing the events—SIG is—so you can't 'design' a loop as you would in a traditional sequencer. Instead, you wait for SIG to come up with something you like and then grab it. If you consider what that 'something' is it's a complete musical phrase: it only comes together at the end. Therefore, it's like a sentence that only makes sense when you include the final...

...

...

...word. ;)

So, the idea is that when you grab the Loop, you're grabbing a whole phrase that stuck your ear, and it was started by SIG a few events ago. That's why I conceptualise it 'backwards' in the manual. Suppose the phrase were C > Eb > G > Bb. The last note you hear is the Bb and that's where you grab the Loop. If you call the Bb the 'nth' event SIG has generated then the Loop is (was) n-3, n-2, n-1, n so you set the Loop as 4 notes long.


Barlines

We hear barlines in 'normal' (through-composed) music really based on regularity: sitting underneath music "theory" is the statistical regularity of some notes over others (that gives a sense of 'key') and some time durations between events (that gives us the time signature via the downbeat). e.g. If we always hear an event every 16 x 1/16s then that cues the ear we're 'in' 4/4.

Because SIG produces events one after the other with whatever durations it stochastically selects, under normal operation there is nothing that forces any regularity in these. In the example in the manual, it might generate a 1/16 followed by a bunch of whole notes. In that case, if that very first event corresponded with a downbeat then it would then be 1/16 'out' of sync, right?

This is where the Force Barline or TimeSig function comes in: SIG counts up the number of clocks based on what you set and forces a new event after that number of counts, overriding the current duration length if it goes over the barline. That way, we guarantee a new event regularly after the correct number of 1/16s which in turn gives our ear the regularity it needs to extract a feeling of time signature.

In our example, if we then forced SIG into 4/4/, that first 1/16 would be counted (as 1 out of 16) and then the whole note event would add to that and of course it would get to 16 one 1/16 before the whole note sounded its entire duration. SIG would then cut the whole note (=16/16) short by 1/16 so the bar added up properly (i.e. 1/16 + 15/16 = 16/16). It would then pick another stochastic duration to be the downbeat of bar 2 and so on.

Does that all make more sense now?

Cheers,
Phin
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:33 am

Thank you for taking the time to explain all that but it does not answer what confuses me

If I’m setting forced bars there are 12 notes and 5 octaves
So if I set 12 notes and 4 octaves that’s 16 clock ticks right ?
Ie each light is a clock tick. I have just re read your answer above re the duration knobs in this as well so will have another play around)

The looping is clear in the manual and works a treat ;)

I don’t understand what happens if I press loop and turn a duration knob

Thank you for your time

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:49 am

tiny333 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:33 am
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that but it does not answer what confuses me
Ah, no problem, I see what you're asking now...

tiny333 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:33 am
If I’m setting forced bars there are 12 notes and 5 octaves
So if I set 12 notes and 4 octaves that’s 16 clock ticks right ?
Ie each light is a clock tick.
Ish. In a musical time signature, the top number is the number of beats, and the bottom number is the kind of beats you're talking about.

4/4 means "4x 1/4 notes in a bar"
3/4 means "3x 1/4 notes in a bar"
12/8 means "12x 1/8 notes in a bar"
7/16 means "7x 1/16 notes in a bar"

...and so on. In SIG, those 12 note and 5 octave lights tell you the top number. However, you also need to set the bottom number, and you do that with the durations by turning the 1/16 knob while holding Run. So, in your example, lighting 12 notes and 4 octaves is definitely 16/something but you have to turn the 1/16 knob to tell SIG 16/what.

If you light the 1/16 duration, that would indeed be 16/16 = 16 clocks
If you light the 1/8 duration, that would be 16/8 = 32 clocks
If you light the 1/4 duration, that would be 16/8 = 64 clocks

and so on. See p19 paying particular attention to the vertical column of red LEDs

tiny333 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:33 am
The looping is clear in the manual and works a treat ;)
Great!

tiny333 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:33 am
I don’t understand what happens if I press loop and turn a duration knob
You get secondary durations: they are in small gold writing under each knob. See p9 & 13
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by tiny333 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 am

Got the time signatures now awesome !

Ah secondary durations !!

Thanks Phin I think I’ve got it all now :)

Can’t wait to get home from work now

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:43 am

tiny333 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 am
Got the time signatures now awesome !
Excellent! :-)
tiny333 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 am
Ah secondary durations !!
Yes, and don't forget you have 3ry durations too with Run+Durations (they're more irregular, for janky/irregular/non-aligned ambient stuff)
tiny333 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 am
Thanks Phin I think I’ve got it all now :)
Can’t wait to get home from work now
Great to hear! That's what I'm here for! Don't forget to post anything you do with SIG online so we can all see! :-)

If you've any suggestions on how to make that more obvious in the manual, please do say, but I've more or less just paraphrased the manual prose here.
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
phinland
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 am
Location: Plymouth, UK

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by phinland » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:12 am

tiny333 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 am
Got the time signatures now awesome !
p.s. Don't forget you can externally force the barline too with SIG's unique TRS ClkIn (Tip is standard ClkIn but if you use a Y-splitter, a trig on the Ring will force the barline!)
Stochastic Instruments Ltd. - https://stochasticinstruments.com/
Rethink Random // Create Chaos // Perform Process

dBs Music Modular Research Group - https://www.dbsmusic.co.uk/

Save the world entire: Go veganhttp://phinland.net/wp/vegan

User avatar
auxpin
Common Wiggler
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:33 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by auxpin » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am

Ahhhh, all this deep discussion is making me so hungry for my SIG
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
dual.bandcamp.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

nrg242
Common Wiggler
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by nrg242 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:36 pm

Dragonaut wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:16 am
A plug-in version of this would be an insta-buy for me right now. Definitely watching with interest.
If you use Ableton and M4L, take a look at K-devices TATAT. only 4 notes, but similar idea:
https://k-devices.com/products/tatat/

User avatar
Dragonaut
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:00 pm
Location: Lake Placid, NY

Re: Omsonic/dBs Stochastic Inspiration Generator

Post by Dragonaut » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:22 am

nrg242 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:36 pm
Dragonaut wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:16 am
A plug-in version of this would be an insta-buy for me right now. Definitely watching with interest.
If you use Ableton and M4L, take a look at K-devices TATAT. only 4 notes, but similar idea:
https://k-devices.com/products/tatat/
Nice! Thanks.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”