FX AID - multi audio effect module

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:11 pm

An extra 2hp - 4hp in front panel and pcb width doesn't increase the costs as much as you think, if at all considering the competitiveness of the market these days. The components count would remain as is (unless a redesign of the preset selection was in order), its simply the reverse of 'cramming it all in' -> space it out a little

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by igorrr » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:13 pm

There is just no other compact module with better programs display than FX AID. Others are more difficult to see the selected program – different brightness/color combinations. Improvement can only be with proper text display, but it needs space.
Disting mk4 is one of the most used eurorack modules – has it better interface? Can you arrange the effects within it, so they follow your own chosen sequence? Does it require a “cheat sheet” to be used?
Plaits like program selection = limit to the factory chosen effects of 16, so can not fit FX AID.
I may do a bigger version later.
If you will provide finger width space on from both FX AIDs sides, then it is not hard to twist the knobs from these sides.
And designing compact module is more costly and much harder. FX AID has three PCB boards, two of which are 4-layer, so total 10 layers. Voltage controlled stereo Dry/wet circuit alone, if made as a separate module, will be prices in a range of 120 USD by most manufacturers.

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bemushroomed
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by bemushroomed » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:20 pm

igorrr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:13 pm
Disting mk4 is one of the most used eurorack modules – has it better interface? Can you arrange the effects within it
Yes, you can set up Favourites. It doesn't really need a cheat sheet, you can see scrolling text of which algo you're currently on. By no means perfect but pretty good for a 4 HP module.

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:24 pm

igorrr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:13 pm
If you will provide finger width space on from both FX AIDs sides, then it is not hard to twist the knobs from these sides.
This is my point... why should you have to rely on neighboring modules to allow ergonomics for the FX Aid. Each module should contain its own boundaries from within itself.

-------

Granted, this module allows you to configure your own sequence of effects from the FxAidEditor -> as mentioned previously, this is great. Well done!

I, like many (I assume) don't have the Disting for those and many other reasons.

Igorrr, compact doesn't mean better. Sure, its lends a hand to those who have smaller systems and are limited by space. I get the market angle you are targeting. I wouldn't recommend a display actually, there are many methods of informing the user specific parameters without the need for one. This all comes down to a discussion on UI design practices and it's implementation.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by aroom » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:34 pm

Each module should contain its own boundaries from within itself.
I always have to consider conflicts with the neighborhood when placing a new module, it's part of the game and I'm glad compact modules exist, I get more per HP.

You can always put blank panel on each side of a module if you need, or buy an non compact module.

So compact is kind off better, because you can choose to cramp your system or not. Having the choice is always nice.

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:37 pm

Missed this in your response.
igorrr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:13 pm
And designing compact module is more costly and much harder.
Exactly, and designing a more ergonomic module defeats the argument of cost. Granted harder for a compact design -> (signal traces, component selection and arrangement). No need to design a separate module for this sub-circuit, simply more pcb real estate allows for more circuitry, which could reduce the amount the PCB stack count.
igorrr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:13 pm
I may do a bigger version later.
This is something I would be interested in. Many ideas come to mind, multi-effects paths, internal routing selections...

adaris
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by adaris » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:04 pm

For those who wish the knobs were a bit smaller but don't want to go Befaco-style, I got these at lovemyswitches.com:

https://lovemyswitches.com/sandblasted- ... -x-10-2mm/

Image

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by drewfx1 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:31 pm

cackland wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:24 pm

Igorrr, compact doesn't mean better.
For some of us compact is in fact better.

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:44 pm

drewfx1 wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:31 pm
cackland wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:24 pm

Igorrr, compact doesn't mean better.
For some of us compact is in fact better.
The definition of better can be discussed at length, which is subjective at the end of the day and not a fact.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by bemushroomed » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:03 pm

cackland wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:44 pm
The definition of better can be discussed at length, which is subjective at the end of the day and not a fact.
Um, what? It can obviously be a fact if you in fact have 4 HP left or just have a small system and 4HP is what you think is ok to spend on a module like this.

I personally certainly appreciate it being only 4HP, and that's a fact.


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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by bemushroomed » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:33 pm

NoLegs wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:05 pm
What happened to the eyeroll emoji?
maybe someone with a bit of intelligence here realized its the laziest emoji ever..
"uhhh i can't come up with an argument here, but i still want to post something to show i don't agree.. oh, i know!"

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:45 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:03 pm
Um, what? It can obviously be a fact if you in fact have 4 HP left or just have a small system and 4HP is what you think is ok to spend on a module like this.
In reference to 'compact being better', is merely subjective.

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cackland
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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by cackland » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:47 pm

adaris wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:04 pm
For those who wish the knobs were a bit smaller but don't want to go Befaco-style, I got these at lovemyswitches.com:

https://lovemyswitches.com/sandblasted- ... -x-10-2mm/

Image
These knobs are nice, thanks for sharing.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by NoLegs » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:14 pm

bemushroomed wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:33 pm
NoLegs wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:05 pm
What happened to the eyeroll emoji?
maybe someone with a bit of intelligence here realized its the laziest emoji ever..
"uhhh i can't come up with an argument here, but i still want to post something to show i don't agree.. oh, i know!"
Wasn’t replying to you, but carry on with the personal attacks I guess.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by Funky40 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:31 pm

igorrr wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:28 pm
If you will be able to improve its layout and do not be over 4 HP –please let me know:)
I can do this ! easy.
i let you know ;)



versus the HP discussion:
the FXaid could be made that its quite accessible with 4hp.
But a 6HP unit would be allways less in danger that other modules pots could add to much of a density there, true.
and one could max out the CV inputs on a 6hp module easy i´d say.
AFAIK, allows the spin chip for 3c CV inputs, right ? plus the wet/dry crossfade donne in hardware.
AND: in case the 4hp module does not allow for some additional circuitry, i´m shure a 6hp would do.
To bring up the wet gain to dry level gain would make the jammability........it would add something !
Seems that all Spin chip based FX have a low full wet level. ( some even sell it as a feature.........lol ).......when not compensating for it with additional analog circuitry.

i personally *totally* like to have the FX aid in 4HP ! just to say.
but getting a second one, which will happen more sooner than later,.....would i prefer a 6hp unit with added 2 more CV inputs !


having just one FXaid, means its my go to, SMALL FOOTPRINT, GOOD Reverb, which i can squeeze inbetween other stereo modules,
to be able to have quick repatchings of my stereo chain in the "end chain area".
(which incorporates several stereo FX modules, plus stereo comp, stereo crossfading, and stereo mixer ( the HN 3xStereo mixer) )
honestly i way prefer the FXaid as my go to Reverb versus patching thru half the town to a ZDSP just to route another stereo patchcable set back again.......

a second FX aid unit would i want to jam with.
First one IS allways occupied to be my go to Reverb.


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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by igorrr » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:09 pm

Wet level can be made of any amplitude up to a power voltage. The trouble is with wet/dry mix not being too hot. Currently, wet peaks at -6… +6 V (12 V p-p). When mixed with dry, the sum can peak to -9V…=9V. That is the maximum I can allow, because if subsequent module will be using not rail to rail opams – peaks will be distorting badly in some cases. If somebody wants to use FX AID 100% wet all the time, I can make the custom boost for the wet level.
And perceived quite wet signal is purely RMS thing not directly relevant to the peak amplitude. Diffused reverb will be always sounding noticeably quiter compared to a bit crusher at full strength. The recently uploaded demo by Sami shows how bit crusher is louder compared to the dry signal, and its amplitude is twice lower than other effects provide to make it less apparent.
Last edited by igorrr on Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by BananaPlug » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:52 pm

If somebody wants to use FX AID 100% wet all the time, I can make the custom boost for the wet level.
Good to know. That would be pretty common ask for applications where module is between mixer aux bus and effect return.
(Sounds)--> :eek:

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by ima_jrk » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:49 pm

I just look forward to these being available from US dealers... awesome module-great work-and I love the size!

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by shoottofill » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:37 pm

rayultine wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:21 pm
I'm being a dunce with changing the onboard fx. I'm playing the wav from laptop internal soundcard. I get the error message at varying volume levels if I go straight from the soundcard. Ok, so intead I'll try going into MI Ears and then from the output of Ears into the FX Aid. If I use a stackable and monitor the wav file with a scope, I am getting the error flash right away when the signal is between -1 to +1 V, -.5 to +.5V, -.2 to +.2V, and so on until the signal appears to be too low to be resolved by the FX Aid.

It'd be nice if there was a LED pattern for success.
Did you ever get the update to go through correctly?

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by shoottofill » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:09 am

shoottofill wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:37 pm
rayultine wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:21 pm
I'm being a dunce with changing the onboard fx. I'm playing the wav from laptop internal soundcard. I get the error message at varying volume levels if I go straight from the soundcard. Ok, so intead I'll try going into MI Ears and then from the output of Ears into the FX Aid. If I use a stackable and monitor the wav file with a scope, I am getting the error flash right away when the signal is between -1 to +1 V, -.5 to +.5V, -.2 to +.2V, and so on until the signal appears to be too low to be resolved by the FX Aid.

It'd be nice if there was a LED pattern for success.
Did you ever get the update to go through correctly?
has anyone got it to go through?
I play the file and get the 'too loud' error and i keep turning it down until i dont get that error. when i'm done i turn it off and back on and nothing has changed. not sure what i'm doing wrong here.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by rayultine » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:18 am

yup. Never got it to work. :/

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by igorrr » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:41 am

If you get “loud” error with leds 1 and 4 blinking, you should decrease the level, press any button, so now leds 2 and 3 are blinking indicating the readiness to accept the firmware, and repeat playing the wav file. When it finishes playing with no errors – the leds return to show the last selected effect.
No need for off/on. New firmware will be in force after switches the effect one step to any direction. Because DSP chip will be loaded with the effect from previous firmware, so to get new effect you need at least switch the effect one time.
I will do a video showing the update procedure.

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by igorrr » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:29 am

Here is the firmware update video

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Re: FX AID - multi audio effect module

Post by Nielsen » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:46 am

BananaPlug wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:52 pm
If somebody wants to use FX AID 100% wet all the time, I can make the custom boost for the wet level.
Good to know. That would be pretty common ask for applications where module is between mixer aux bus and effect return.
That would be awesome! But this is not an firmware option, right? I like my two FX AIDS a lot, but in fact they‘re in my usecase a little bit too quite.

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