Endorphines 6HP

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Dogma
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Post by Dogma » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:23 am

southberry wrote:just to end ...
before to send it back to the dealer this morning I did a last test.
trying different cases, power solutions, disconnected power angry modules (even if I have a lot of room) ... nothing changed

I then try to adjust the trimmer, no noise reduction, just saturation when I start to reach the "line level" around 60% ... :hmm:
the signal at the MW inputs is not quiet, it's a very loud signal ... still a big noise floor / whine that can't be ignored ... I wanted to use this module like an end of the chain stereo in / out reverb ... useless
:bang:

I'm sorry but this can't be considered as an usual noise floor like I get from other material .... or it's a ten-floor architecture ... :hmm:

For me there's two options : 1 – There's a bad batch and this problem is a factory issue ... 2 – Endorphin.es find it acceptable / normal and you'll have to deal with it ...
Still no answer from Endorphin.es (mailed them 4-5 days ago ... )
maybe they will read this topic before my e-mail ?

I wish it's a factory issue ... because on the paper it's the module I'm dream about since many years ... a <8HP HQ stereo In / Out reverb.
I’ve tried getting onto endorphins twice and had 50/50% luck but andres was very helpful when I did speak to him

Just be sure there is no button press your missing - on the GT there is a MASSIVE jump when cutting the filter out of the mains (it’s peculiar to the Gt) but without that there’s no way you could use it and I spent a bit thinking I had made a major mistake buying it. But to cram all that in and still have a functional and fun module sacrifices are made, and in this case is button presses
look up!

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plainjanefrancis
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Post by plainjanefrancis » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:35 am

Dogma wrote:
I’ve tried getting onto endorphins twice and had 50/50% luck but andres was very helpful when I did speak to him

Just be sure there is no button press your missing - on the GT there is a MASSIVE jump when cutting the filter out of the mains (it’s peculiar to the Gt) but without that there’s no way you could use it and I spent a bit thinking I had made a major mistake buying it. But to cram all that in and still have a functional and fun module sacrifices are made, and in this case is button presses
What do you mean by cutting the filter out of the mains on Grand Terminal? I didn't know that was possible.

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plainjanefrancis
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Post by plainjanefrancis » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:38 am

Koryo wrote: So it's a hard no go using them as final mix effects, but for sub mix effects, they work as advertised.
Very interesting. This has me thinking about trying to the GT again. I was using it as the final output to the audio interface, when I had one. Are you saying that all you have to do is, run the endorphin.es module into another mixer before sending it out of the rack, and then the high pitch wine isn't as prominent compared to the rest of the signal?
Last edited by plainjanefrancis on Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:03 pm

southberry wrote: I wish it's a factory issue ... because on the paper it's the module I'm dream about since many years ... a <8HP HQ stereo In / Out reverb.
I hope this is true. However, based on lack of response, I don't think so. Curious how many batches have been released and with all the negative feedback on the noise floor, if they are all from the same batch.

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Koryo
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Post by Koryo » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:19 pm

plainjanefrancis wrote:...Are you saying that all you have to do is, run the endorphin.es module into another mixer before sending it out of the rack, and then the high pitch wine isn't as prominent compared to the rest of the signal?
The way I tested was to take the output of a BIA into a PanMix while subjectively comparing loudness. A/B of signal with Squawk and Milky.

Observation:
A signal: full BIA -> PanMix level at 12 o'clock -> ~0db*
B signal: attenuated BIA -> PanMix level at 9 o'clock -> ~0db*

So, using them at end-of-chain at 0db would mean 100% wet resulting in horrible S/N. Conversely, to my ear, using them in a sub mix at say -20db results in nice sounding effects. The whine and noise are still present in the signal, but at -20db makes it sufficiently close to the noise floor of the system to render it inaudible.


*purely subjective loudness comparison.

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plainjanefrancis
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Post by plainjanefrancis » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:24 pm

Koryo wrote:
plainjanefrancis wrote:...Are you saying that all you have to do is, run the endorphin.es module into another mixer before sending it out of the rack, and then the high pitch wine isn't as prominent compared to the rest of the signal?
The way I tested was to take the output of a BIA into a PanMix while subjectively comparing loudness. A/B of signal with Squawk and Milky.

Observation:
A signal: full BIA -> PanMix level at 12 o'clock -> ~0db*
B signal: attenuated BIA -> PanMix level at 9 o'clock -> ~0db*

So, using them at end-of-chain at 0db would mean 100% wet resulting in horrible S/N. Conversely, to my ear, using them in a sub mix at say -20db results in nice sounding effects. The whine and noise are still present in the signal, but at -20db makes it sufficiently close to the noise floor of the system to render it inaudible.


*purely subjective loudness comparison.
oh gotcha, I a see what you're saying. Thanks for the insight!

isi909
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Post by isi909 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:20 am

yes squawk dirty to me with a stady noise spike @ 2000 Hz + the harmonics of it....
:despair:

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southberry
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Post by southberry » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:43 am

So to resume, people have this problem with the Milky Way, the Squawk and maybe the others 6HP new modules too ... the problem was already there on Grand Terminal, which was the core of this modules.
:doh:

still no answer from ES so I guess this is a normal behaviour for them ...

The dealer offers a full refund after I sent him an audio snippet of the noise problem ... it sounds broken for him too

Happy that I didn't order the full 6HP line as I've planned few weeks ago ...

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FatKingTubby
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Post by FatKingTubby » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:28 pm

After reading so many cases of noisy Milky Ways I was gobsmacked when I noticed some noise in the signal of my Godspeed's Even/Odd output. It wasn't on any other output and I also realized the tune button wasn't doing anything either. I was ready to send it back but decided to re-read the manual to be sure and lo and behold - it was all user error. Holding the tune knob while turning the furtherrrrrr knob adds white noise to the signal on the Even/Odd output. Additionally holding the tune button for 1 second enables/disables the tuning function. I must have done both while haphazardly playing around with it on my first go. Always pays to read (and then re-read) the manual.

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Post by OHEXOH » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:59 am

From an email conversation with Andreas at Endorphin.es
I've carefully listened your sound example and I have to say that's normal behavior of the module.

First of all the codec we use and lots of other modular manufacturers use, doesn't have the best hi-fi specs.

Second thing is that the noise depends on the algorithm used. Some algorithms use double time lowering the internal sampling to have more RAM for delays or freezer. That are basically two delays and a freezer.

And some algorithms behave with less noise just because they are done in a different ways and achieve different spatial reverb types in the end
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rob_dylan
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Post by rob_dylan » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:28 am

OHEXOH wrote:From an email conversation with Andreas at Endorphin.es
I've carefully listened your sound example and I have to say that's normal behavior of the module.

First of all the codec we use and lots of other modular manufacturers use, doesn't have the best hi-fi specs.

Second thing is that the noise depends on the algorithm used. Some algorithms use double time lowering the internal sampling to have more RAM for delays or freezer. That are basically two delays and a freezer.

And some algorithms behave with less noise just because they are done in a different ways and achieve different spatial reverb types in the end
Thanks for this. Do you mind sharing the sound example that is being referred to? Just curious to hear what noise level is considered 'normal behavior' and how similar/different it is from the sound example I posted myself earlier.

OHEXOH
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Post by OHEXOH » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:00 am

It’s the one I posted on pg 2 of this thread.
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OHEXOH
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Post by OHEXOH » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:02 am

The same audio is in my post on pg 2 of this thread. Best listened with headphones but it’s apparent with speakers too.
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rob_dylan
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Post by rob_dylan » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:20 am

OHEXOH wrote:The same audio is in my post on pg 2 of this thread. Best listened with headphones but it’s apparent with speakers too.
Ok, thanks!

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psienide
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Post by psienide » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:16 pm

OHEXOH wrote:From an email conversation with Andreas at Endorphin.es
I've carefully listened your sound example and I have to say that's normal behavior of the module.

First of all the codec we use and lots of other modular manufacturers use, doesn't have the best hi-fi specs.

Second thing is that the noise depends on the algorithm used. Some algorithms use double time lowering the internal sampling to have more RAM for delays or freezer. That are basically two delays and a freezer.

And some algorithms behave with less noise just because they are done in a different ways and achieve different spatial reverb types in the end

I feel like this doesn't really address the issue with a filter module like the SQWK though. But the probably use the same DSP and thus the same noise.

OHEXOH
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Post by OHEXOH » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:59 pm

Agreed, I found the noise and high pitched whine was present on every algorithm.
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cackland
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Post by cackland » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:34 pm

So this confirms that the module is behaving as the designer intended upon release.

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L.C.O.
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Post by L.C.O. » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:44 pm

I guess I am glad I did not get any of them...
Bummer.

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:32 am

Just checked out this video:

I couldn't hear any noise as described throughout this thread. However, I'm curious as to Ricky's gain staging, mixing process which may have eliminated this prior to print.

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Koryo
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Post by Koryo » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:37 am

cackland wrote:Just checked out this video:

I couldn't hear any noise as described throughout this thread. However, I'm curious as to Ricky's gain staging, mixing process which may have eliminated this prior to print.
Yeah, I did the same thing. Scratching my head on this one.

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Post by Tenderosa » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:12 pm

Koryo wrote:
cackland wrote:Just checked out this video:

I couldn't hear any noise as described throughout this thread. However, I'm curious as to Ricky's gain staging, mixing process which may have eliminated this prior to print.
Yeah, I did the same thing. Scratching my head on this one.
I notice in the video he is not using it end of chain as people mention doing above.

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southberry
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Post by southberry » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:20 am

Tenderosa wrote:
Koryo wrote:
cackland wrote:Just checked out this video:

I couldn't hear any noise as described throughout this thread. However, I'm curious as to Ricky's gain staging, mixing process which may have eliminated this prior to print.
Yeah, I did the same thing. Scratching my head on this one.
I notice in the video he is not using it end of chain as people mention doing above.
This is not the first demo with noiseless Endorphin.es module ... their short instagram demoes to start, the general overview, Perfect Circuit demo too ...
this why I thought it could be a "bad batch" ... I've a lot of more or less noisy module but it's more a -60db / - 55db thing ... that you can easily mask by managing the input level or a very delicate lpf post-recording ... this is not the case (mine sounds like the link above https://soundcloud.com/robinlindqvist/m ... le/s-VagkT and the dealer offers me a full refund after listening to few samples I've sent to him, so it sounds broken for him too )

but the Andreas reply, the fact people with the Grand Terminal, with the filter ... :despair:

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Post by Tenderosa » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:31 am

This is not the first demo with noiseless Endorphin.es module ... their short instagram demoes to start, the general overview, Perfect Circuit demo too ...
this why I thought it could be a "bad batch" ... I've a lot of more or less noisy module but it's more a -60db / - 55db thing ... that you can easily mask by managing the input level or a very delicate lpf post-recording ... this is not the case (mine sounds like the link above https://soundcloud.com/robinlindqvist/m ... le/s-VagkT and the dealer offers me a full refund after listening to few samples I've sent to him, so it sounds broken for him too )

but the Andreas reply, the fact people with the Grand Terminal, with the filter ... :despair:[/quote]

Wow, that is a spectacular and unreasonable amount of noise. What a drag you had to go through that. Glad your dealer was responsive.

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plainjanefrancis
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Post by plainjanefrancis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:05 am

I mentioned earlier that I've had Grand Terminals that definitely had the high pitch noise problem. I bought a new GT this week, and this one is working great. No noise, no buzzing, everything sounds like the demo's I've seen. So maybe the two I bought last year were from a bad batch? Or maybe they've changed something in the design to fix the problem.

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Post by Wubz » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:55 am

Hi all, I have a milky way and there is a definite whine, layered over noise hiss but it's not very loud. How are you all measuring the loudness. Ableton Specrum Analyser says it peaks around -86db. What do you consider unacceptable?

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