Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their gear!

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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Starfire
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Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their gear!

Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:59 pm

Long time lurker spent over a year (100s of hours) researching and I want to get started now but Im stuck! :goo:

It appears this help might serve thousands of others having the same questions as well so if you guys with experience could PLEASE help with the following it would benefit mankind as this forum lives on!

All I see whenever this question is asked is "oh thats too vague a question" or "it really depends on what you want to accomplish" or "you could do so many things" or "there are so many modules to chose from" or the infamous "there is no correct answer"

These are lame answers and not helpful to anyone!

:nutter: What Modules do you recommend to get started? I would like a list of 10-15 modules that would be a kick ass kit with everything needed to start my journey There must be a list of agreed upon must haves!

Remove price from the equation and lets just discuss quality and utility

I see I must have Maths - 2010 version or newer one ok? So thats 1 Down

I see I probably want a Filter, oscillator, VCA, and some utilities like Pamelas New workout. Perhaps Clouds and Braids? Metropolis?
Morphagene?

The filters seem Key what are the top three Filters that exist?

:nutter: Just a list please of the best modules currently available that one would need to have a kick ass starter setup without having to buy and sell a bunch of stuff thats now worthwhile long term.

Please help all of us newbs with your experience so we can start out on solid ground!

I thank everyone in advance for their wisdom on the matter! :loves:
I have been to modular grid, all up and down You tube all through this forum and gearslutz and its not clear. I think this is why companies are selling full kits like the erica black because tons of people dont know where to start. We could change all that :bananaguitar: Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack and thats why a list of the must have Modules for a kick as kit in 2019 is essential for mankind!

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hlprmnky
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Post by hlprmnky » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:20 pm

I present to you: A Tortured Analogy, Being a Play in One Act Which Attempts to Explain this Thread for Future Generations:

EXT. DAY near a CAVE. PLATO and SOCRATES stand near each other, in close discussion, STAGE CENTER
PLATO: "What kind of orchestra should I hire?"
SOCRATES: "Well, I don't know - are you writing Western medieval music? Baroque? Twelve-tone? Jazz-influence pops? Gamelan? In any event you'll need for sure some instruments in high, medium, and low registers and probably more than one timbre, but really the important thing is to make sure that all the boring, un-sexy stuff like hiring musicians who read the same notation you write in, and making sure there's a rehearsal and/or recording venue available, that's all handled as well."
PLATO: "What a lame and unhelpful answer! Surely there must just be a kick-ass starter setup everyone agrees on?"
SOCRATES: "For ...'orchestra'? I'm afraid not."
PLATO: "arrrgrghrgh! Back to YouTube I guess, maybe someone there will help me."
EXIT PLATO STAGE LEFT
SOCRATES: sighs.
LIGHTS DOWN
THE END

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Zymos
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Post by Zymos » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:27 pm

Here's how subjective any suggestions are going to be: if I picked 10-15 modules, none of them would be Maths, and probably none would be a filter. Maybe not even a VCA!

There's a good reason why people say "there is no correct answer"...

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by sir stony » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:49 pm

Starfire wrote: All I see whenever this question is asked is "oh thats too vague a question" or "it really depends on what you want to accomplish" or "you could do so many things" or "there are so many modules to chose from" or the infamous "there is no correct answer"

These are lame answers and not helpful to anyone!
Wrong. Those are exactly the answers needed to clarify what is the essence of modular synths to people who have not yet realized. Like yourself.
Take a bunch of logic modules and you can make a calculating machine. Take a bunch of oscillators and you can make a drone system. Take some clocking, sequencer tracks and vcas and you can make a gate/ratcheting audio shredder.
Tell us, how the hell are we supposed to know what you aim at?
I have around 1000hp of eurorack, and no maths. And it isn't anywhere on my wishlist, either. Have I been doing it all wrong? I suggest you get used to the idea that some things in life just don't exist in a one-size-fits-all package, and modular is certainly among them.

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Post by Mark II » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:50 pm

‘Where to start?’ is not the centre question in modular. ‘Where to end?’ is, however.
The thing is to put a motor in yourself - fz

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Starfire
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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:57 pm

And that Sir is exactly the Most unhelpful answer the world has ever seen! This is EXACTLY why I asked and EXACTLY why it needs a proper answer!

I present to you my answer to PLATO because SOCRATES is a moron without answers:

1.)Get the Strings section that practices in the field just beyond the rock on the south shore because they are the best in the land.
2.)There is a drummer from Japan that plays all matter of percussion famously well so send for him at once. HE can handle most everything you need.
3.) There is a pianist (not required) but will add extra fun to your music in the third cave over.
4.) Any Trumpet player you find will do because its just not that important.
5.) You should use Sally who is a great clarinet player versed in all styles of music.
6.) For violins supplement your strings with Betsy, Bob or Sally are the three best people currently on the island.
7.) There is a great small man that sits by himself in the dark. He is strange but will blow you mind what he can do on fill percussive. Get his cousin as well as thats the only way to get him to play in sync.
8.) Cartman should be your conductor. He has a sense of humor and wont take shit from your diverse crew.
9.) You better lure Butters so Cartman doesn't get bored in intermission and leave your show.
10.) For Flutes get linkletter he will blend nicely for your setup.
11.) There is a kick ass obo player that hangs out in the hipster brew pub. If you can get over his beard he will be a key addition.
12.) The trombone player you need is Rick or Morty - Both are very good Rick tends to be a little lose with the group but adds an awesome flair.
13.) Any good sax player will do Thelma is currently consider the best by consensus but lots of people love Billy.

That will get you playing PLATO. Happy to help! Have fun and good luck!

PLATO: Thanks a bunch Starfire! Socrates is such a nitwit!

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hlprmnky
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Post by hlprmnky » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:00 pm

That's gonna make some truly unlistenable gamelan, my friend.

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Starfire
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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:02 pm

sir stony wrote:
Starfire wrote: All I see whenever this question is asked is "oh thats too vague a question" or "it really depends on what you want to accomplish" or "you could do so many things" or "there are so many modules to chose from" or the infamous "there is no correct answer"

These are lame answers and not helpful to anyone!
Wrong. Those are exactly the answers needed to clarify what is the essence of modular synths to people who have not yet realized. Like yourself.
Take a bunch of logic modules and you can make a calculating machine. Take a bunch of oscillators and you can make a drone system. Take some clocking, sequencer tracks and vcas and you can make a gate/ratcheting audio shredder.
Tell us, how the hell are we supposed to know what you aim at?
I have around 1000hp of eurorack, and no maths. And it isn't anywhere on my wishlist, either. Have I been doing it all wrong? I suggest you get used to the idea that some things in life just don't exist in a one-size-fits-all package, and modular is certainly among them.
I get the GIST of What you all are saying I really do. There IS an answer. So perhaps list the top 10 Modules that would build a kick ass starter rig for you?

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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:04 pm

hlprmnky wrote:That's gonna make some truly unlistenable gamelan, my friend.
In the beginning definitely but once Cartman gets his grove on with some practice it is going to be epic cause the players are all top of class! :whistle: :lol:

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by Rob_C » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:05 pm

Starfire wrote:Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack and thats why a list of the must have Modules for a kick as kit in 2019 is essential for mankind!
Contrary to popular belief the "Spirit of the Modular Rack" is manufacturer agnostic and only interested in cash and credit cards and souls.

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Starfire
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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:09 pm

Rob_C wrote:
Starfire wrote:Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack and thats why a list of the must have Modules for a kick as kit in 2019 is essential for mankind!
Contrary to popular belief the "Spirit of the Modular Rack" is manufacturer agnostic and only interested in cash and credit cards and souls.
LMAO! This is the truth. Now I need to know which 10-15 Modules are the top of your lists to placate the goods with said cash!

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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:14 pm

If its about the workload of typing your top ten Modules I will very much appreciate your TOP 5. Maybe from That I can get a consensus and finalize the best list of 10-15 Modules to build a kick ass modular system. :banana:

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Post by mskala » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:15 pm

Don't ask the question if you're not going to listen to the answer.

But probably the closest thing anyone can give to the kind of answer the OP wants, would be one of the canned single-manufacturer systems that some manufacturers produce - like one of the Doepfer "basic systems" or the MakeNoise Shared System. Those are reasonably well-balanced, and would be good either for starting a larger build or as a usable instrument that never gets further expanded.

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Post by medium Rob » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:25 pm

There is no "Top 5" ... do some research; read existing threads, watch videos. the information is already there. looks like you already know the names of some modules, why don't you figure out what they do, and how they compare to other modules of similar functionality? how much do you want to spend on a sequencer? $100 or $500? what sorts of special effects do you want? what do you want your sounds to sound like!? how do you want them to move? how do you want to make them? figure it out!
Last edited by medium Rob on Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:26 pm

mskala wrote:Don't ask the question if you're not going to listen to the answer.

But probably the closest thing anyone can give to the kind of answer the OP wants, would be one of the canned single-manufacturer systems that some manufacturers produce - like one of the Doepfer "basic systems" or the MakeNoise Shared System. Those are reasonably well-balanced, and would be good either for starting a larger build or as a usable instrument that never gets further expanded.
I am practically begging to listen! There has yet to be an answer. Just more of the "there is no answer" which is not helpful. I could certainly tell you my Top five Hardware Synths because they are the best at being a hardware synth. I know because I use them and thats why I could tell someone asking. The question has morphed a bit to what are your top 10 Modules. I can be matter of opinion but if 15 people say Pamelas New Workout and "X" or "Y" filter it helps me understand what people love.

Its what people LOVE that is interesting and helpful to those of us new to the world of modular. Perhaps thats a better subject line?

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by rew_ » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:26 pm

Starfire wrote:I have been to modular grid, all up and down You tube all through this forum and gearslutz and its not clear
it's not supposed to be clear, it's a process of discovery. exactly how the process goes depends on your music, your means, and your interest level. not always in that order but that's how it is.

Starfire wrote:Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack
a) no it's doesn't
b) even if it does (it does not) it certainly does not defile the spirit more so than demanding a bunch of strangers tell you what modules to buy


original post is both presumptuous and thirsty as hell, rare combo
whoosy boxes / zoomy panels

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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:34 pm

medium Rob wrote:There is no "Top 5" ... do some research; read existing threads, watch videos. the information is already there. looks like you already know the names of some modules, why don't you figure out what they do, and how they compare to other modules of similar functionality? how much do you want to spend on a sequencer? $100 or $500? what sorts of special effects do you want? what do you want your sounds to sound like!? how do you want them to move? how do you want to make them? figure it out!
I have spent over a year researching - Exhaustively! You Tube, Muff, GearSlutz, Modular Grid, Explored Blocks, Softube etc. Im asking for help because you all have had hundreds or thousands of years collectively in cases to explore this and can save lots of wasted time for those of us behind you in the journey.

The problem is that there are too many modules. Im hoping to understand peoples passion to sidestep having to buy 40 different units to figure it out myself. I agree this would be noble of me to just start from scratch however when there are thousands of people with experience that can help shorten the journey isnt it reasonable to ask for Help to close the gap a bit?

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Post by medium Rob » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:36 pm

Look at the difference between two beloved sequencers- the Korg SQ-1, and the Intellijel Metropolis. Both of them are great. One takes up a lot of space (inside a eurorack case), and the other sits outside of it. One has all sorts of cool/useful functionality that makes it large + expensive, and the other one isn't so well-featured, but it's well-useful, and takes up less space (but it sits outside of the case) ... which one makes more sense? what about the other sequencers? are you expecting people to just tell you things that you can learn on your own?

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Post by mskala » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:39 pm

Part of the problem here is that in order to have a working system you need some modules that are not going to be on anybody's top 5. For instance, VCAs. There isn't really any specific VCA module that is a must-have. Some are better than others, but none stand out as "kickass." But almost any system needs to have *some* VCA module.

So do we try to agree on the one very best VCA module? There will never be consensus on which one that is, and some other module in a different category will always be more exciting than any particular VCA module. Or do we tell the truth, which is that you need one or two VCA modules and it doesn't matter very much which ones, and then we'll get abused for saying that?

Much the same can be said about oscillators, filters, and in fact, almost all of the most necessary modules to build a usable system. What's necessary in a system are specific functions, not specific individual modules. And the individual modules that stand out are usually unique functions that don't fit well into the standard categories, and you just can't build a system only out of unique exceptional-function modules. Wishing, or flatly insisting, that the modular game works some other way, will not make that true.

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:43 pm

rew_ wrote:
Starfire wrote:I have been to modular grid, all up and down You tube all through this forum and gearslutz and its not clear
it's not supposed to be clear, it's a process of discovery. exactly how the process goes depends on your music, your means, and your interest level. not always in that order but that's how it is.

Starfire wrote:Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack
a) no it's doesn't
b) even if it does (it does not) it certainly does not defile the spirit more so than demanding a bunch of strangers tell you what modules to buy


original post is both presumptuous and thirsty as hell, rare combo
You can start to try and go negative but your not going to hurt my feelings. Im just after some thoughts from experienced modular users. Any why is everyone so against recommending which modules to buy. Its almost like its a cult thing for everyone to speak in hyperbole vs just listing their top 10 modules. Is this the secret key to the holy grail that can not be spoken else you will lose electricity forever? Perhaps it is the years of wasting time watching the question continue to be bashed and unanswered that has me being a bit direct trying to get a helpful answer. It is a matter of fact that everyone reading this has their top 10 favorite modules! You may not be able to list them in order of love affair but the list definitely exists for everyone.

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Post by ckwjr » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:43 pm

Dixie II +
Intellijel uMidi
Lifeforms ADSR
WMD/SSF MMF
2hp VCA
Vinicius Electrik Overfolder
Malekko SND/RTN


these are the only modules you're allowed to own until you've put in 120 hours of patching practice. After you've put in 120 hours and taken the permit test you're permitted to buy any Make Noise product. At 500 hours you take the advanced licensing test and you can buy anything except Cwejman products which can't be purchased by anyone without special dispensation from the pope.

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Post by Chartreuse-J » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:51 pm

Not going to tell you what to buy...

But I will say, buy what you like.

For your guidance...

Peter Blasser's IFM modules, best diversity here...

Dave Rossum's modules, quality, accurate...

A few Make Noise Music modules, choose carefully...

Filters... Cwejman, Schippmann, Rossum. Can't go wrong with any.

VCA... WMD MMVCA.....Good, Trogotronic....Extreme. Mutable Blinds....Middle Road.

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by Schrank » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:53 pm

Starfire wrote:Buying one companies full kit defiles the spirit of the modular rack and thats why a list of the must have Modules for a kick as kit in 2019 is essential for mankind!
And buying the modules from the "2019 must haves starter kit list" is the modular spirit? :hmm:

You already spent hundreds of hours researching and just found as unhelpful answers as "oh thats too vague a question" or "it really depends on what you want to accomplish"?
The forum is full of good advice for beginners, just listing some top must have modules isn't good advice.

The most helpful mantra that people repeat and repeat again and again is still: go slow!

You don't even need 15 modules to start with. And it's not important to choose the top modules, you can make a killer beginner rack with some of the most unfamous modules.


My advice to you: buy a maths :tu: it's a great lerning tool.
Study it's manual and the various patch examples you can find online and look what other modules are used in these patch examples.
Instead of the make noise modules you can choose anything else that does the same or similar. Just choose what you like, don't be too stressed about buying "wrong" modules. When something doesn't work as expected, ask the forum members your specific question.

Or: Buy a semimodular synth. Easiest way for someone who doesn't know exactly what he wants. Everything for a killer beginner patch is already there, maybe add a keyboard or a sequencer.

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Re: Experienced wigglers Please help the NEWBS with their ge

Post by rew_ » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:55 pm

Starfire wrote:You can start to try and go negative but your not going to hurt my feelings. Im just after some thoughts from experienced modular users.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, though I do fear you're unaware of the tone your messages are written in.
Starfire wrote:isnt it reasonable to ask for Help to close the gap a bit?
This board, and those youtube videos, and VCV Rack, etc are what closes the gap. People have spent a lot of time closing the gap for you. Actually choosing your modules is on you.
whoosy boxes / zoomy panels

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Post by Starfire » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:59 pm

medium Rob wrote:Look at the difference between two beloved sequencers- the Korg SQ-1, and the Intellijel Metropolis. Both of them are great. One takes up a lot of space (inside a eurorack case), and the other sits outside of it. One has all sorts of cool/useful functionality that makes it large + expensive, and the other one isn't so well-featured, but it's well-useful, and takes up less space (but it sits outside of the case) ... which one makes more sense? what about the other sequencers? are you expecting people to just tell you things that you can learn on your own?
ABSOLUTELY! Thats the way civilization evolves to become greater than the sum of its parts. Its also pretty cool to help others when you have knowledge that they do not have. Even if you saved someone a few ours with 5 minutes of your time you have done a service for humanity.

And Thank you! That was super helpful! Now I can go research those two and make an informed decision. Ill end up down a few rabbit holes but at least i know where to dig. if 3-4 other people were to say yep the Sq-1 is amazing but I like the metropolis better then I would likely start researching the metropolis based on consensus of what the majority agrees is good.

This seems like the whole entire point of having a forum for discussion and the point of my question![/size]

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