Schippmann to end Eurorack production

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damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:43 am

i have to agree, it feels a bit experimental. a separate variable ‘gate’ stage with its own set of sync controls and cv switch it to a delay stage. its a wild idea. cant say i know exactly what to do with it other than experiment

then a hold input, and also gate out for decay. just a super interesting and unique set of tools there

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:00 am

My thinking about these "exotic" features of DTG to date, subject to change when I'll experiment of course:

GATE TIME OUT
I think this one "small" function hides a lot of potential actually... there's load of VC possibilities with re-triggers and delay VC input.
1/ Could be used as a hold seq function to play partial sequences or gate triggers through something like Pamela's workout that has a gate held only (it's not a latching gate).
2/ Could trigger another envelope and be used also as a timed burst function in combination with re-triggers from an LFO on the destination envelope (like the second envelope of DTG).
3/ Could be used as a timed envelope trigger/gate. Considered it's voltage controlled we could make it either very short or long and control that manually or through CV during play. With a fast attack and long decay on the second envelope for example we would end up with "burst" and trunacted movements with short times and longer movements with longer times, allowing the envelope to "develop" more fully and make sound evolve very differently depending on CV applied at the input. In combination with shorter / longer note would maybe make more sense obviously.
4/ Delayed timed burst / envelope trigger.

DECAY GATE OUT
1/ Advanced accent function through triggering another envelope right at the beggining of the decay, most suitable with the second envelope being shorter in total than the decay time I assume.
2/ Same but controlling something else than a VCA (volume) to get a "spike" on FM / VCF at the end of attack stage
3/ Burst function through 2nd envelope trigger and retrigger of this 2nd envlope (similar to points above with Gate out)
4/ Timed wobbles/vibratos/tremolos etc in combination of a VCA and another sound processing module (VCF, waveshape etc).

HOLD INPUT
Well, we don't have a potentiometer here but any function requiring a regular hold like percussion stuff, but with the ease of having it voltaged controlled directly.

VCA CV and VCA out
Really depends on what the envelope controls but I see it as a quick shortcut to create all the classic effects like vibrato/tremolos/velocity-sensitive note etc. There is surely lot more to do with it.

Where I get a bit lost/dry of idea whitout having experimented it is for example the difference between env reset input gate reset input :)
I amwaiting for the manual to learn more details about the exact behaviour of these inputs...
My brain is melting before I even tried it xD

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:08 pm

Jee wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:00 am
My thinking about these "exotic" features of DTG to date, subject to change when I'll experiment of course:

GATE TIME OUT
I think this one "small" function hides a lot of potential actually... there's load of VC possibilities with re-triggers and delay VC input.
1/ Could be used as a hold seq function to play partial sequences or gate triggers through something like Pamela's workout that has a gate held only (it's not a latching gate).
2/ Could trigger another envelope and be used also as a timed burst function in combination with re-triggers from an LFO on the destination envelope (like the second envelope of DTG).
3/ Could be used as a timed envelope trigger/gate. Considered it's voltage controlled we could make it either very short or long and control that manually or through CV during play. With a fast attack and long decay on the second envelope for example we would end up with "burst" and trunacted movements with short times and longer movements with longer times, allowing the envelope to "develop" more fully and make sound evolve very differently depending on CV applied at the input. In combination with shorter / longer note would maybe make more sense obviously.
4/ Delayed timed burst / envelope trigger.

DECAY GATE OUT
1/ Advanced accent function through triggering another envelope right at the beggining of the decay, most suitable with the second envelope being shorter in total than the decay time I assume.
2/ Same but controlling something else than a VCA (volume) to get a "spike" on FM / VCF at the end of attack stage
3/ Burst function through 2nd envelope trigger and retrigger of this 2nd envlope (similar to points above with Gate out)
4/ Timed wobbles/vibratos/tremolos etc in combination of a VCA and another sound processing module (VCF, waveshape etc).

HOLD INPUT
Well, we don't have a potentiometer here but any function requiring a regular hold like percussion stuff, but with the ease of having it voltaged controlled directly.

VCA CV and VCA out
Really depends on what the envelope controls but I see it as a quick shortcut to create all the classic effects like vibrato/tremolos/velocity-sensitive note etc. There is surely lot more to do with it.

Where I get a bit lost/dry of idea whitout having experimented it is for example the difference between env reset input gate reset input :)
I amwaiting for the manual to learn more details about the exact behaviour of these inputs...
My brain is melting before I even tried it xD

Good ideas, you got me thinking now! The cool thing about the hold function is that it's not the typical one with a pot that kicks in between attack and decay. Carsten said a few pages back that it will hold the envelope at any moment that a signal is applied. It looks like he also added some graphics and figures to the panel design on the website to show that the VCA envelope out can go from positive to negative depending on CV, so cool! Small thing I wonder about is if the gate output will still be active with a gate signal if the gate/del. mode is selected to be delay. Could be cool to have a gate output for exactly the length of the gate delay! Or is the delayed gate coming out of the gate output in that case? I'm not sure if delay mode applies a delay to what goes in to the Env-Trig input or if it simply delays the gate going into the gate input and gives the delayed gate at the gate output. Will wait for the manual haha.

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:49 pm

Yes it would be cool to have a gate active when delay is on ! Let’s see this one. I didn’t pay attention to the layout update indeed it will go negative, that is a really nice addition which offers a lot of comfort and more flexibility :)
And shape looks curved? I thought it was linear...
One other thing I’m wondering about is the segments time. In the short wording on top of the page it says 10 microseconds whereas the layout seems to show 0.1ms which is 100 microseconds if I’m correct?
Not that it really matters musically speaking even 1ms is already very fast but 100 microseconds would bring the full cycle in trig mode to 300 in total which is...somewhere between 3.5kHz and 4kHz frequency ? Is this correct? It’s already insanely fast and opens up really cool audio range droning applications and weird wave shaping! 10 microseconds seems totally outer space as it would make it above human audio range in the upper frequencies?? xD
Definitely amongst the fastest envelope in the world anyway I guess...

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Wubz » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:46 pm

Oh man, This Phi is tasty!! So many flavours!! LOVE IT!!

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Mon May 04, 2020 5:30 pm

DTG manual available!
Explains the gate behavior (gate OR delay), the reset for gate and env are clearer now. Only the trig input is a bit confusing because it seems to start the attack (so far so good) or “maintaining the decay phase” which is less clear to me (trig means pulse to me, no “maintain”).
then OV in trig input always starts release which is also clear.
Also I didn’t pay attention to negative sustain on top of inverted VCA out which is really cool, and also the +200% sustain that makes decay a second attack.
It also makes it a punch function with max sustain and very short decay the env will jump from 0-5v of attack stage to 10V directly. In combination with the gate out module and short length that promises a lot for percussive stuff.
All in all the behaviors / functions are very flexible !!! :yay:
And it is 100 microseconds times at shortest. It’s insanely fast.
If I’m correct with the decay-act out plugged into gate rst and env rst makes it a ramp LFO up to 10kHz... 8-)
Can’t wait !! :hyper:

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Mon May 04, 2020 5:52 pm

Thanks for posting, I missed it haha! Diving in now....

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Mon May 04, 2020 6:22 pm

Wow, looking at the manual to me this module is going to be something much, much more than I thought at first. Like you said, setting up one half as an oscillator, then setting up the other half as a much faster oscillator that is then patched to intermittently hold the top half for some crazy wave shaping effects and then being able to play with the relationship between those cycles, and even with the delay between them. Also, being able to switch with voltage from gate mode to delay mode means maybe with a flip-flop and a sequencer you have a built-in voltage controlled swing/shuffle, not to mention more crazy use of switching back and forth between gate and delay mode in a less "predictable" way.

A cool thing would be to set up the loop by first sending delay-act out into the gate in and then set to gate delay mode and VC the delay time for some slightly shifting loop lengths.

I just went from totally loving both new designs but being more excited about the LFO to being equally excited about both!!!

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue May 05, 2020 12:29 am

Haha good ideas! I was waiting very much for the env on my side, i’m in paradise :)
LFO will surely be a killer too though :)
Carsten take my money now! XD

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jaypee » Tue May 05, 2020 1:33 am

You know when you print a manual, things are getting serious! :D
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damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Tue May 05, 2020 12:02 pm

had a read through the manual. good points yall have pointed out... bipolar sustain phase?? crazy. even more excited now! still myself trying to interpret the 1v/dec scaling of the cv inputs and what that really means to me as a user. will it make it easier to operate to dial in small amounts because its scaled differently?
also curious about how a low 0v at the Env Trig causes a reset at the Gt-Res...

it does feel “luxurious” as he describes. i can imagine some great ways of doing self patched bursts and ratchets.

very appreciative of a detailed manual for even just a limited release run

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue May 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Carsten is always going very far in his design and often surpised me. I think here he's on top form!!
There are some quite experienced users on this topic (I have 20 years of sound design behind me) and still, I am feeling slightly stupid when trying to decipher this design :despair: :lol:

The trig input and its "dependencies" is apparently quite unique again.
The way I understand it :
a trig +5V input will actually trigger the envelope and reset it at the same time (link to env reset input) and once the pulse/gate goes 0V then only the timed gate module is triggered, not the envelope itself.
Which would allow... damn fuck plenty of thing I can't figure out at the moment because I'm too dumb :mrgreen: :help:
Ducking stuff maybe with inversions somewhere, switching stuff I guess?

Really what bugs me totally is the "maintain" on the trig input, I just don't get how it works. Is it supposed to receive a trig/pulse or can it handle held voltages, to start with?
Carsten if you come over there enlight us please :)

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 pm

I looked at the German section of the manual and it doesn't seem to use the word maintain at all. Here is what google translate says for that section:

Envelope-Trigger, +5 V startet die Hüllkurve in der Attack/Decay-Phase; 0 V versetzt die Hüllkurve in die Release-Phase.

Envelope trigger, +5 V starts the envelope in the attack / decay phase; 0 V puts the envelope in the release phase.

I'm confused about 0V putting the envelope into the release phase. That would only apply to after the attack and decay phase are over obviously, yes?

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by B0bcat » Tue May 05, 2020 3:48 pm

3pand wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 pm
I looked at the German section of the manual and it doesn't seem to use the word maintain at all. Here is what google translate says for that section:

Envelope-Trigger, +5 V startet die Hüllkurve in der Attack/Decay-Phase; 0 V versetzt die Hüllkurve in die Release-Phase.

Envelope trigger, +5 V starts the envelope in the attack / decay phase; 0 V puts the envelope in the release phase.

I'm confused about 0V putting the envelope into the release phase. That would only apply to after the attack and decay phase are over obviously, yes?
I can confirm the accuracy of Google translate in this case :)
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by oneiric.tomb » Tue May 05, 2020 3:55 pm

Did carsten let any of you preorder yet? I emailed him and he said he got the email, but didnt take my money lol
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by B0bcat » Tue May 05, 2020 4:01 pm

oneiric.tomb wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:55 pm
Did carsten let any of you preorder yet? I emailed him and he said he got the email, but didnt take my money lol
He told me it will be possible to order when the PayPal button shows up / works :hihi:
WTB: Plan B / SubCon Model 15 VCO, Plan B Model 12 VCF, ADDAC 805v1, MakeNoise QMMG

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue May 05, 2020 4:08 pm

damase wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:02 pm
had a read through the manual. good points yall have pointed out... bipolar sustain phase?? crazy. even more excited now! still myself trying to interpret the 1v/dec scaling of the cv inputs and what that really means to me as a user. will it make it easier to operate to dial in small amounts because its scaled differently?
also curious about how a low 0v at the Env Trig causes a reset at the Gt-Res...

it does feel “luxurious” as he describes. i can imagine some great ways of doing self patched bursts and ratchets.

very appreciative of a detailed manual for even just a limited release run
Yeah, it sounds like 1V/dec will make it easier to dial things in if I'm understanding it correctly. Wherever the knob is manually set to, applying 1V gets you 10x that duration and applying -1V gets you 10x less than that duration.
B0bcat wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:48 pm


I can confirm the accuracy of Google translate in this case :)
Haha thanks!

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue May 05, 2020 4:30 pm

same he didn't accept to take my money neither and said he will come back to all customers...
And I think I am also confused enough for the day now, thanks guys I thought I kind of understood but actually no :lol:

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue May 05, 2020 4:35 pm

B0bcat wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 4:01 pm
oneiric.tomb wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:55 pm
Did carsten let any of you preorder yet? I emailed him and he said he got the email, but didnt take my money lol
He told me it will be possible to order when the PayPal button shows up / works :hihi:
:cry: :lol:

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Tue May 05, 2020 4:41 pm

3pand wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 pm

I'm confused about 0V putting the envelope into the release phase. That would only apply to after the attack and decay phase are over obviously, yes?
Not necessarily? Could skip remaining unfinished attack or decay stages to go directly to release ?

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue May 05, 2020 7:04 pm

Jee wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:49 pm

One other thing I’m wondering about is the segments time. In the short wording on top of the page it says 10 microseconds whereas the layout seems to show 0.1ms which is 100 microseconds if I’m correct?
Not that it really matters musically speaking even 1ms is already very fast but 100 microseconds would bring the full cycle in trig mode to 300 in total which is...somewhere between 3.5kHz and 4kHz frequency ? Is this correct? It’s already insanely fast and opens up really cool audio range droning applications and weird wave shaping! 10 microseconds seems totally outer space as it would make it above human audio range in the upper frequencies??
I'm posting a lot today haha, really feeling stuck at home! About the super short time scales, correct me if I'm wrong about this:

I'm assuming that the time scale Carsten wrote in the description (10 microseconds to 1500 seconds) is correct and is accessible via CV. So first of all, a standard trigger is what, 2ms at the shortest right? Doesn't that mean that if you were to set the envelope to a time shorter than 2ms, then a standard trigger would have a "sustain" segment (crazy haha). But then the cool thing about that is that you can use the trigger length as a sort of constant but then inside of that, the waveform that the trigger length is triggering (the envelope shape) can be constantly changing in terms of how much of the 2 ms is taken up by attack vs decay phase, the level of the sustain, etc. So it could be some kind of crazy waveshaping oscillator.

Or to take it one step further, you can input any audio rate wave form (10 microseconds is 100,000 Hz I think lol), let's say a square wave, and then again you can use the envelope to create an oscillator shape. If you then patch the same square wave into the CV-VCA jack, then the envelope waveform will also be fluctuating between positive and negative values.

On a related note, I wonder if Carsten came up with 50 microseconds as the lowest value on the Gate knob because that corresponds to 20,000 Hertz.

(disclaimer: I could be mistaken about all of this, it's really hot today)

I agree with Jee, take my money! :party:

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Thu May 07, 2020 12:41 am

Well interesting thoughts ! Makes sense to have shorter times with negative cv control of course!
This negative vca / sustain will indeed bipolar audio signals!
I wonder if these crazy high frequencies could be of some use to bother my cats :)

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by monads » Fri May 08, 2020 6:41 pm

I'm in for both! Could use the DLFO before DTG but oh well. Waiting for the 'live' early bird notification to pull the trigger!

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by oneiric.tomb » Sun May 24, 2020 12:21 am

Anyone got any clue about when preorder opens?
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Mon May 25, 2020 1:11 am

Nope still no news on my side...

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