Schippmann to end Eurorack production

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tom
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by tom » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:53 am

The diode filters are a whole different story to the CS-8 series, you can't really compare imho.
Thy are sounding very very very beautiful.

How would you patch a looping EG or looping function generator with the DTG?
Any idea how to self-retrigger it? With some utility module?

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:26 pm

tom wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:53 am
How would you patch a looping EG or looping function generator with the DTG?
Any idea how to self-retrigger it? With some utility module?
You could do it with just one external trigger to start the cycle if you use the lower envelope as a gate delay for the upper one's decay stage gate output. You would need to adjust the attack timing of the lower envelope to make the loop, and patch the decay stage gate out of the lower envelope into the gate input of the upper one.

damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:38 am

i could be wrong but i dont think its possible to self patch for the typical looping envelope behavior... without external comparator

BUT it seems like you could get all sorts of looping behavior by using the gate delay mode and the 3 reset jacks in various ways. with independent time scales for the gate vs the envelope should lead to great results

The Gate Reset jack also is reset by a return to 0v at the Env Reset jack, hard for me to fathom the results right now, but it seems it could also play into it

Schippmann
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Schippmann » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:23 am

Hi there!

two (of certainly many) ideas:
A)
1.) take one Gate output and send it into ENV Gate input, untie the reset input (dummy plug)
2.) invert this Gate output (0 V->+5 V / +5 V->0 V) additionally and send this to the second Gate input in DELAY mode
3.) send this Delay ouput to the Gate input (of the first Gate)

Now, you have an oscillator (the two gates), where the Gate length (first Gate) determines the Attack/Decay-duration and the Delay-time the Release duration. Unfortunately, you need one external digital inverter.

B)
1.) use one ENV Gate input to start the oscillation
2.) send the decay active out to one Gate input in Delay mode
3.) send the Delay output to Reset input of the ENV

Now you have an oscillation using only Attack/Decay, where the delay time determines the decay phase' length and always starts by the reset to zero with attack. The total period time is the sum of attack time and delay time.

cheers, C.

Jee
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:51 pm

The DTG units arrived! :nuke:
Testing ongoing :banana:

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:38 pm

Also arrived here just now!!!!

damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 pm

oh damn i didnt even know they were shipped yet!

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:37 pm

Let me just say, I completely understand why Jee has not come back to share his thoughts yet, haha! This is the deepest module I’ve ever used, and the way all the reset behaviors work is completely mind bending. Right now I have a dummy cable plugged into the gate-reset jack, an audio rate pulse coming from an omega phi into the gate input, then using the gate out to trigger the envelope, the vca envelope going to another omega phi’s fm input, the regular envelope out opening a vca, and the decay gate out going to the envelope reset. In summary, I have completely lost track of what is going on with all this haha, but changing the various parameters, including gate length, attack time, release time, etc., is creating some really wild fm sounds on the omega phi that I’ve never heard before. And this is all only using the top half of the DTG. Right now the module is patching me more than I am patching it but can’t wait to get a sense of purpose behind using it because wow it is incredibly open and powerful.

PS- using it as a “classic synth” envelope results in some of the nicest envelope shapes I’ve ever found. Wasn’t expecting that!

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:27 am

Yeaah I spent some hours on it already and the first impression is: YES!!

Very deep and quite complex module indeed.
I tried to focus on 1 EG / gate to get a good feeling of how they work and behave, alone and together.

Some details about these first impressions:

GATE module
I tried to make it work "stand alone" and didn't manage it at first, until I realise I need to untie the GT-Res with a dummy cable :)
RTFM :)
I am not sure why Carsten tied it by default, but either way works and once that solved I found the module intuitive and easy to work with.
You can have the gate being "fixed time" (knob value) with a dummy GT-Rst jack in OR have the gate be cut when you reach 0V before the gate time if no plug in GT-Rst jack. Like a replica of the entering gate, but timed to a max time set by the knob.
This module is very flexible but I still need to figure out the way I want to make the best use of it, it's too early yet..
I know I will explore more the triggering in gate mode via the Active decay out to use it as a time/CV-controlled accent to trigger a second EG applied to same parameter. Did a few tries and works nicely. I will also explore the delay mode that I like a lot as it works.
I'll also makes more experiments in combination of the EG to mimic a trig behavior of the EG.
And then I'll need to experiment stuff.

EG
This is were it gets really exciting!!
So much to say already...
I focused on Vanilla use first. Very, very convincing! Crazy times, super percussive! Still very easy to set longer time, top comfort with knob ranges.
Very natural feeling with these linear envelopes, very satisfying (I prefer linear env most of the time).
The bipolar sustain rocks!!
It expands a lot the possibilities and ease of use! Like doing these "rebound / slap back / upward movement release" sounds is a piece of cake! Just go into negative territory with sustain and here you go! I really love that. I was looking for this and struggled a lot with regular EG's, mixers, VCA's, attenuverters etc... I have it all packed ans ready to use now, excellent.
I tested the EG retriggering behavior too. It is by default a hard reset of the EG for each new gate received, which is not often my preferred option. I prefer retriggering from current position that I find more natural and musical most often. DTG can do this too of course, by plugging another dummy cable into the Env-Rst jack. But I guess I would have preferred opposite default.
There is no dedicated trig mode for the EG though, as far as I saw. We can kind of mimic it using the gate module but it is still slightly different. But also interesting, worth exploring.
CV inputs 1V/Decade: really large control over the time range!! It's massive. However the default behavior for all these inputs is what I would call "inversed". Sending positive voltage will decrease the time so basically mimic a CCW knob movement. I found this choice not so intuitive personally. I would have preferred the opposite maybe. Like if you play a staccato synth with short decay and want to increase briefly the decay to make it sound "fuller/longer" you need a negative CV, so you need an inverter before in most cases... But I guess it's just a habit to take. And the time range of the CV inputs is so large that we might need attenuverter every time to get a controlled effect actually...
Sending the VCA out to the time range gives incredible results though! It is bending a lot the curves and gives a totally different feeling to the sound!
Try simple stuff like the EG going to a cutoff, Attack 0, Decay Max, 0 sustain and plug the VCA out. Send poisitive voltage little by little and you'll get exponential "plucky" curve and it sounds like no other "exp curve decay" I heard... Super plucky/percussive but not harsh, quite smooth sound I would say, declicious. I will clearly explore further this.
I didn't explore much the VCA out yet except for these time modulation. This is convenient to have a VCA, I'm sure I'll make use of it.
I also tried the most basic retriggring I found by plugging the active decay to the Env-Rst jack and you have then a gated cycling ramp-up oscillator/LFO. Quite cool and simple. I didn't try Carsten's trick described above in the thread to get a cycling attack-decay through gate module but I will.

SO far I think I just scratched the surface.... who said deep module?
Finally we have to get used to work with dummy cables :) The 2 reset jack inputs (gate and env) or delay/gate mode often need dummy cables, at least for my most regular uses. I ended up murdering a 10cm yellow doepfer cable to create to dummy 2 jacks (like pins) and avoid having cables floating lol. Maybe slight overkill^^
But it is almost the same yellow than the CS-8 yellow, that's fashion :lol:

OFF TOPIC
By the way I have finally decided to go "true polyphonic" on my Schippmann modular and ordered 2 more VCF1 to be able to have identical setting on all 4 voices. I was struggling to get VCF2 and VCF1 to sound really close in polyphonic mode -I poorly planned this originally... I knew the filters were sounding quite different it should have been an obvious warning! :doh:
Therefore I will sell 1 of my 2 VCF2 for a good price (500€, perfect condition). I can't sell them both, it's too good I need to keep one.
If any one from this thread is interested before I post it more widely just le me know.

Jee
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:49 am

One more thing I just tried: send a drum loop to VCF and then trigger DTG with the same audio signal, see if I get DTG to create these lovely punchy filter sweep on drums that Euf coud do.
And it totally works perfectly! I am SO PLEASED with this!! That expands even more the possibilities!
The trigger is incredibly responsive!! 8-)
Maybe even too much because I get a bit of noise which sounds like the env being triggered really fast (like by all the audio signal, not just peaks).
Could partially get round it increasing release and/or sending also the audio to Env RSt input but not totally. But it gives some gritty sounds!
Still need to explore it though, maybe filtering the signal pre-gating could also give good results...

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:27 pm

The thing that makes this module pure magic for making transient envelopes is the fact that it does not have the option to simply trigger it. The envelope shape you get depends just as much on the gate length you send in as anything else, and so the fine tuned (and voltage controlable!) gate output for each envelope completely unlocks a whole world of sound. You can easily hear the range of amazing sounds you can get just by varying the gate length by tiny amounts! And i agree with Jee, using feedback to adjust the curves of the different stages is really something I haven't heard before when adjusting stages on other envelope generators. Finally I can adjust each envelope to perfectly sit inside of any groove happening in a track and not feel like it was just "good enough"!

damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:26 pm

thanks for the reports yall. eagerly awaiting to test this out. its sounding like he knocked it out of the park on this. the cv decreasing stage time is not what i expected, but it shouldnt be a problem really just a quirk

mine should be in this week, seems like my 6 year envelope search is coming to an end :)

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:50 pm

1000% knocked it out of the park, and yes the search is at an end.

If by CV decreasing stage time, you're referring to what I last wrote, sorry I didn't explain so clearly. What I meant was that since when the gate goes off, the envelope always jumps to the release stage, you can have many many different envelope shapes because of the separate gate section of the module and how you can use it to precisely hear all the different shapes you get by gradually letting more of the envelope stages through before the release hits. You can for instance, do a sort of crossfade, or better to call it transition maybe, between a release shape and a decay shape simply by increasing the gate length from the point where only the attack phase is finished through to the point where the decay phase ends (keeping sustain at 0).

So by turning the gate knob you go from
attack-release
attack-d-release
attack de-release
attack-dec-release
all the way to attack-decay (no release because sustain is 0)

really fun and extremely jammable even. also sequencing the gate length within a range that makes sense is amazing.

the more I explore it, the more I realize that all of the quirks and things that at first didn't make sense to me are what make it so powerful and expressive.

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:48 pm

Little DTG demo.

Here's an example of how modulating and sequencing the gate length can sound like you are manipulating a sequence while the incoming gate input is just a steady stream of triggers! I had a lot of fun with this trick. The only thing being modulated in this demo is the DTG, the underlying sequence and oscillator always stays the same, everything you hear is caused by just one envelope of the DTG modulating filter cutoff and the same envelope used for the VCA. Omega Phi saw into a Bionic Lester mk1 (the high aliasing sound of the filter makes it easy to hear the release phase changing shape). Also here you can hear a little sampling of how the envelope sounds with different stage times and feedback curve changes.


Jee
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:44 am

Great demo!
Sounds fat :)
It shows very well the gating effect.
So by turning the gate knob you go from
attack-release
attack-d-release
attack de-release
attack-dec-release
all the way to attack-decay (no release because sustain is 0)
I see exactly what you mean. This is the sort of thing that EuF was shinning for with its great Hold stage and trig behavior.
I have been looking to recreate it but could never achieve it with other tool because the RMS-based trigger of EuF is also very unique.
With a dummy cable in Gate Rst that's almost a trig behavior that is reproduced.

Another way could be to plug the decay active out to the Hold input (no need of gate module in this case). As long as attack is finished the EG is held at max for the duration of the decay transforming the envelope in an AH(S)R. This should do pretty much the same and frees the gate module for something else but is less "trig-like" (needs regular gate)?

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Wubz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:46 pm

Do you all think more of these will be made in the future? Really want one based on your comments and the other Schippman modules I have, however cashflow is tight right now. I have a falistri on the chopping block, to help get this. It's great, but i believe this will get me a LOT more of what I'm after.

3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:40 pm

Another demo no one asked for haha! This time it's the COOK compressor and the DST2 distortion.

I've just been re-acquainting myself with the way all the Schippmann modules work together and can be used to create grooves and give rhythmic life to tracks in amazing ways. Here you can first hear a pattern that is rhythmically static. After the fadeout, you can hear the same pattern but put through the COOK compressor with some extreme settings and sequenced modulation. Lots of movement, but pretty extreme, next the original track is blended in parallel to get the best of both worlds. After that, the original track is attenuverted against the compressed version in order to find interesting grooves that come out of the difference between the tracks. This is where the distortion module works some magic. It is used not for overt distortion, but to simply add sustain to the track when there is a cool groove happening but the sounds are all too short and choppy sounding (it also adds a bit of crunch of course). Finally there is just random tweaking at the end for a bit.


3pand
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:45 pm

Wubz wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:46 pm
Do you all think more of these will be made in the future? Really want one based on your comments and the other Schippman modules I have, however cashflow is tight right now. I have a falistri on the chopping block, to help get this. It's great, but i believe this will get me a LOT more of what I'm after.
Good question! I don't think anyone can answer that. According to the info on the Schippmann website, there won't be any produced in the future. The one thing I will say is, I think that no matter how rare a module is, at some point, someone down the line will have it for sale for some reason. So there's always hope in case it sells out sooner rather than later!

tom
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by tom » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:42 am

3pand wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:40 pm
This time it's the COOK compressor and the DST2 distortion.


is this + OmegaPhi and DTG?

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:07 am

tom wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:42 am
3pand wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:40 pm
This time it's the COOK compressor and the DST2 distortion.


is this + OmegaPhi and DTG?
Yes and also Bionic Lester mk1.

damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:57 am

nice demos 3pand, makin me want the cook even more

i also use the dst2 for subtle fattening pretty often. ive never had a distortion that was so easy to blend into a mix or can just pump some good juice without overtaking the character of the source. a while ago i was doing vocals in the rack and needed more gain, but didnt have a preamp so i just stuck it into the dst2 and pumped it pretty hard and it sounded fantastic... as in, you can easily hear it but you dont tend to notice it. secret weapon module for me

still hope one day he produces the other distortion he had planned, with selectable crossover. id like it in stereo too personally like a miniature culture vulture

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by Jee » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Yes nice demos 3pand, liked it, subtle, varied, punchy and full of movement!
DST2 definitely secret weapon module! So simple but yet so versatile... love it.

I just purchased a second hand drumbrute impact and immediately sent it to the modular and DTG is shinning with drums audio-triggered.
Coupled with VCF1 I got very close to this EuF feeling! Too lazy to record tonight and make proper demos but I will surely do soon if anyone's interested (even if not, I will follow 3pand's move and do demos nobody has asked for :lol: )

And please no new distortion, I don't have any space left for it ultimately, I would be too frustrated! :lol:

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:11 am

Wow cool tip, damase, good to know it can be used in that way!

As soon as I received the COOK many months ago I immediately ordered another one. It can also be a sort of secret ingredient module that, once it starts adding that motion and life to things, not using it makes everything sound boring and static. It's like when you inject tiny bits of random signal into the right parts of a patch and everything comes to life, except you can use it in a purposeful and enhancing way, and still put the random in on top.

I agree with you both about the multiband distortion, it would be amazing but also I would need to make room for it somehow haha. As it is, it's amazing how well the DST2 works in many different situations.

Hope to hear the DTG audio-triggered demo, but no pressure! I'm looking forward to trying that out. Really looking forward to the DLFO after seeing how unique the DTG is!!!

damase
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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by damase » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:06 am

finally giving the DTG a run down here. very expressive module, i still have a lot to learn about how it works. i sat down to just patch one of my favorite patches, simple duo-phony with typical kind of enveloping and it brought me into some places envelopes have never taken me before, having the extra control and rhythmic ability from the early part of the patching signal chain really makes a patch sound so much different. i sat down to record a simple demo of the trumpet kind of fanfare sound i had (OmegaPhi - Phi Sine into its own TZFM input gets a wildly natural sound wind instrument sound)... but three hours later it had turned into a much deeper track already.

things i love... the range to dial in! wow its a dream to use an envelope with this kind of precision. thats all i needed to sell me honestly im hooked just by that. its so precise you get to dial in the exact kind of ‘click’ you cant for a punchy attack and still easily dial in longer swells perfectly. i also love how it jumps straight to release phase when your gate is finished, without needing to finish the attack phase. super natural feeling for strings and pads. i play a lot by hand so i have expressive ability of gate length already. i love the visual feedback of LED per stage. i enjoyed the default behavior of how the envelope resets from 0 (it makes more sense when playing duophonic by keyboard).

things i noticed... this module eats utilities and has the potential to make a cable jungle. gotta rearrange my rack to put it in an easier spot and surround it with dedicated utilities. the flipside to that, is that it easily becomes a complex center-point much more than other envelopes. the 1v/dec scaling is very interesting, i need to investigate more... i could dial modulation very easy but it certainly needed attenuators to get me there. the VCA input was not as easy for me to simply throw in my velocity signal as i expected, it felt like my velocity was either very strong or very weak, but this was without much further investigation and could be from how my FH-2 is set up

question yall could maybe help with...
im a little confused why the Gate mode has no response until there is a dummy cable into the Gate Reset jack. Maybe this is because how the Env Gate is inversely tied to the Gate Reset? i just expected it to be simple to just throw a trig into the left side and have it make a gate without any other patching necessary, trying to understand the reasoning here so i can use it to my own advantage instead of confusion

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Re: Schippmann to end Eurorack production

Post by 3pand » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:18 am

100% agree about the stage lights, never even thought about it but your comment made me realize I completely rely on them to help know how to expressively push a patch around with the DTG. And yes, it eats utilities like no other haha!

Also yeah, it feels so nice the way this module loves to become the center of a patch. It's like a black hole of expressiveness that slowly pulls all attenuverters, sequencers and cables to it one by one lol.

About the gate reset behavior, you're right. It doesn't work that way in the delay mode, but in gate mode the gate will always be reset to 0 when the envelope gate is done/low. I think if you try setting up Carsten's patch that he described here and also in the manual that adds a hold phase after the attack, it makes it more clear why such a reset behavior is helpful. In a patch like that, if the gate didn't get reset when the envelope gate is low, then the hold phase could potentially last longer than the incoming envelope gate itself if you increase the gate length knob past a certain point. But with the inverse reset behavior, in that patch the hold time can never be longer than the envelope gate and can of course be shorter as well by adjusting the gate length knob. Maybe that's one reason for why it works that way? Without the reset, it would probably be awkward if you are playing gates on a keyboard like you said and sometimes notes would sustain longer than you want them to. It's early haha but maybe that's one explanation!

Was curious to know your thoughts about the DTG, thanks for sharing!

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