TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

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TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by johannes » Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:08 pm

hello wigglers,

anyone out there who already had the chance to try both TZFM VCO´s and can report about their possibilies (particular fm and am) ?
having tzfm in common they seem to be quite different … i would like to hear some experiences.
Of course iam also curious to hear some impressions on one of both. (without comparing them)

thanks and
merry christmas,
j

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by guigui » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:26 am

BUMP the doubt

peripatitis

Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by peripatitis » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am

This is difficult to say..
Generate 3 has both tz fm, and tz pm (zpo only has tz-fm) but lacks the waveform outs to take advantage of it the way the omega-phi can. You only get the triangle core unaffected by the pm to contrast.
On the other hand the zpo has pwm modulation which is a big thing, even though it doesn't go to zero which is annoying for me (does it go there with an offset?) and the morphing which is useful.
I am trying to replace my omega's to make more room in the case, but none of this oscillators seem to be able to do it for me.
Btw why isn't rubicon 2 on this list? Besides being release earlier it doesn't seem lacking in comparison...

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by closedLoop » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:08 am

peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am
This is difficult to say..
I'd agree. I don't have any hands-on experience with the Generate-3, but from the videos and audio examples I've seen and listened to, it's remarkably different from the ZPO I do have. I'm not sure thru-zero oscillators are a unified classification of oscillators. Each seem remarkably different than the other. The only two I've encountered that bear any strong similarity are the Doepfer and the Dannysound, but I haven't had hands on them all.

What sets the ZPO apart is the two variable wave outputs, and the unified mod output. That isn't a thru-zero feature, and I find it endlessly useful.

I am deeply curious about the Generate-3, but it doesn't seem an either/or situation with my ZPO. I'm waiting for the forthcoming Divkid video, as I'm unlikely to have any hands-on time with it before potentially buying it.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by damase » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:39 pm

have not used G3 or ZPO...
Have used Omega Phi2 and Rubicon, and A-110-4

out of the op two choices, to me ZPO looks more interesting. Variable wave shape morphing is a huge feature, not easily obtainable otherwise. it can have a really interesting effect when FM is in play, and two separate wave morphers is great. The demos ive heard sound “clangerous” but thats to be expected with wave morphing and no little to no filtering. I thought the “zero point” was similar to the bias/symmetry of other tz osc

The Rubicon 2 has the tuning lock feature, which cant be underestimated. what a time saver, a way to skip past so much tweaking and get good sounds fast. Somehow it has a reputation for sounding sterile but i never felt that way. I would think its just as valid an option as the others

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by oldenjon » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm

Honestly the ZPO feature set seems a little bloated to me. Why does it need two variable waveshape outputs? If you want to morph, you could use scanning and crossfading with the generate 3 for the same effect. While the generate 3 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the zpo it certainly wins the features:hp category in my book. But ultimately sound is the biggest factor in this debate. Will have to wait for more demos or until I can get my hands on a ZPO.
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by NoLegs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:40 pm

oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm
Honestly the ZPO feature set seems a little bloated to me. Why does it need two variable waveshape outputs? If you want to morph, you could use scanning and crossfading with the generate 3 for the same effect. While the generate 3 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the zpo it certainly wins the features:hp category in my book. But ultimately sound is the biggest factor in this debate. Will have to wait for more demos or until I can get my hands on a ZPO.
Hm, this is a confusing comment. You start it off by saying the ZPO feature set is "bloated" but then say the Generate 3 wins features:hp? I get the Generate 3 is 4hp smaller, but it still seems contradictory. At any rate, I find myself using both variable wave shape outputs quite often.

Aside from the fact that they are both TZ oscillators, I'd say they are quite different in their focus. I'd like to pick up a Generate-3 one day - having owned a Filter-8, I have no doubt it's a fantastic oscillator and has an intriguing feature set, and sounds great in the demos.

peripatitis

Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by peripatitis » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:44 pm

oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm
Honestly the ZPO feature set seems a little bloated to me. Why does it need two variable waveshape outputs? If you want to morph, you could use scanning and crossfading with the generate 3 for the same effect. While the generate 3 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the zpo it certainly wins the features:hp category in my book. But ultimately sound is the biggest factor in this debate. Will have to wait for more demos or until I can get my hands on a ZPO.
this has been discussed many times, I'd like to listen to an example where this is clearly demonstrated, but the gist of it
is that morphing is not crossfading but rather moving between the settings of the waveshaper that creates the waveforms (although in this case with three sets I don't know what goes on).

Anyway the way the zpo works is very confusing to me, I don't get exactly what the zero point is, how this is a combination of pwm and pm, etc
From what I understand they thru-zero trick is to a) offset the incoming modulation to the positive range and b) sync the oscillator to reverse at some point.

On the other hand the g3 is clear in that, it does fm and then pm, which reminds me of the omega in that sense.
None of the demos of those two oscillators though focus on the sine wave and/or cleanness of it, which is an important factor with fm, especially if you are into less noisier results or if you want to build an fm network of multiple oscillators.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by johannes » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:00 pm

Thanks for your input guys. Very helpful! Iam very much appreciate it.

Of course the rubicon is more than welcome regarding its tzfm potential. Just have it here ...
mixing mostly its warp output with the sine output. Sounds great. Pwm+tzfm+waveshaping. Not really use all those other waveform outputs on the rubi and because of its big size and my small case iam thinking about replacing it ... looking for a different vco concept.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by oldenjon » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:35 pm

peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:44 pm

this has been discussed many times, I'd like to listen to an example where this is clearly demonstrated, but the gist of it
is that morphing is not crossfading but rather moving between the settings of the waveshaper that creates the waveforms (although in this case with three sets I don't know what goes on).

Anyway the way the zpo works is very confusing to me, I don't get exactly what the zero point is, how this is a combination of pwm and pm, etc
From what I understand they thru-zero trick is to a) offset the incoming modulation to the positive range and b) sync the oscillator to reverse at some point.

On the other hand the g3 is clear in that, it does fm and then pm, which reminds me of the omega in that sense.
None of the demos of those two oscillators though focus on the sine wave and/or cleanness of it, which is an important factor with fm, especially if you are into less noisier results or if you want to build an fm network of multiple oscillators.
Yes I often see the terms crossfade and morph used interchangeably. It appears that what is happening in the ZPO is two identical circuits that scan between the outputs, and the outputs of the scanners (or possibly waveshapers) are then cross-faded. Notice there are no modulations inputs for the separate channels which means FM & AM (most) settings are identical on both channels. Maybe they are calling it a morph circuit because you can CV the scanners (variable outputs) separately? It's unique sure but personally I don't think it's very useful as a dedicated feature. Was the ZPO announced before or after the G3?
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by damase » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:42 pm

peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:44 pm
On the other hand the g3 is clear in that, it does fm and then pm, which reminds me of the omega in that sense.
None of the demos of those two oscillators though focus on the sine wave and/or cleanness of it, which is an important factor with fm, especially if you are into less noisier results or if you want to build an fm network of multiple oscillators.
its true it slightly reminds me of Omega Phi because the fundamental output is unaffected by PM, even if its just one output, the triangle sounds great for the ‘slow lfo chorusing effect’... it is very cool for such a HP friendly vco. Just looking now though, it seems its mainly space friendly at the cost of very necessary features like attenuators or index VCA. Not that it makes it unusable for a good VCO, but I think the feature set of each various tz vco will lead to artist toward different results sonically in the end

I agree i some more subtle FM demos of all of the oscillators will do them a lot of good for their perceptive sound signature. To me, the Omega sounds great on all waveforms even when pushed very hard or soft...cant say that about them all and thats the overall factor that keeps me with it.
Last edited by damase on Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by damase » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:46 pm

oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:35 pm
Maybe they are calling it a morph circuit because you can CV the scanners (variable outputs) separately? It's unique sure but personally I don't think it's very useful as a dedicated feature.
i just present that the option to smoothly go from a clean wave to a harmonically rich wave is always a great way to perform musical expression. its difficult or takes more space to patch, so having VCO that can do it in various ways is potentially useful.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by NoLegs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:51 pm

Also morphing to and from an inverted sine wave while modulating the other waveform yields interesting results.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by oldenjon » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:56 pm

NoLegs wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:40 pm
Hm, this is a confusing comment. You start it off by saying the ZPO feature set is "bloated" but then say the Generate 3 wins features:hp? I get the Generate 3 is 4hp smaller, but it still seems contradictory. At any rate, I find myself using both variable wave shape outputs quite often.
See my last comment. The morph stuff is probably included as a 'killer feature' but that kind of complicated scanning / waveshaping circuit would serve better as an external module IMO. The G3 has no frill, all features are useful in the context of a vco, and I can use the HP it leaves for a scan or fade module that can be used anywhere in my modular.
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by NoLegs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:14 pm

oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:56 pm
NoLegs wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:40 pm
Hm, this is a confusing comment. You start it off by saying the ZPO feature set is "bloated" but then say the Generate 3 wins features:hp? I get the Generate 3 is 4hp smaller, but it still seems contradictory. At any rate, I find myself using both variable wave shape outputs quite often.
See my last comment. The morph stuff is probably included as a 'killer feature' but that kind of complicated scanning / waveshaping circuit would serve better as an external module IMO. The G3 has no frill, all features are useful in the context of a vco, and I can use the HP it leaves for a scan or fade module that can be used anywhere in my modular.
I guess that makes sense - if you're not going to use a feature then I suppose your comment is accurate in that context. For me, I use it frequently and find that it's useful to morph and waveshape in tandem with the AM and FM which would not be possible in the same way using external modules. So I find that it isn't "frill", personally.

We haven't even discussed using it as an LFO - in which case the ability to have two separate outputs with individually waveshaped waveforms is most definitely useful for use as modulation.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by oldenjon » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:54 pm

NoLegs wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:14 pm
oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:56 pm
NoLegs wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:40 pm
Hm, this is a confusing comment. You start it off by saying the ZPO feature set is "bloated" but then say the Generate 3 wins features:hp? I get the Generate 3 is 4hp smaller, but it still seems contradictory. At any rate, I find myself using both variable wave shape outputs quite often.
See my last comment. The morph stuff is probably included as a 'killer feature' but that kind of complicated scanning / waveshaping circuit would serve better as an external module IMO. The G3 has no frill, all features are useful in the context of a vco, and I can use the HP it leaves for a scan or fade module that can be used anywhere in my modular.
I guess that makes sense - if you're not going to use a feature then I suppose your comment is accurate in that context. For me, I use it frequently and find that it's useful to morph and waveshape in tandem with the AM and FM which would not be possible in the same way using external modules. So I find that it isn't "frill", personally.

We haven't even discussed using it as an LFO - in which case the ability to have two separate outputs with individually waveshaped waveforms is most definitely useful for use as modulation.
It would be possible, just a bit more complicated because it isn’t patched internally. Pretty sure that any way you frame it (lfo, modulation) external modules can do it and are ultimately more useful. Not knocking it exactly, a person that is after that sort of thing would prefer the hard-wired features of the ZPO I’m sure, but I’m only interested in the core differences of the ZPO and G3.
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by NoLegs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:55 pm

My understanding (which could be wrong as I haven't seen a diagram) is that the waveform is created/shaped prior to using the FM/AM on the ZPO, so using external modules for crossfading/morphing/waveshaping and THEN trying to do TZFM on them would not be possible really, as there's no way to send the resultant waveform back into the ZPO to do the FM/AM. Unless you're talking about using external modules to somehow TZFM/TZAM the resultant waveform of that external processing, at which point you're looking at a significant amount of patching and HP for those external modules. I'm not even sure there's a way to do that. Or maybe you're talking about taking an already TZFM/TZAM'd signal out of the ZPO and then crossfading/waveshaping it using external modules, which is something completely different than what's going on internally in the ZPO.

Anyway, I feel like this conversation is going nowhere - you think a feature that I use heavily on a piece of equipment is "useless" or "filler" somehow, and I disagree. Have a nice day.

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by oldenjon » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:55 pm

There is only one modulation input so I assume the variable wave shape and morph circuits come after everything. Again, just interested in the core differences. Cheers.
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by johannes » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:32 am

peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am
This is difficult to say..
Generate 3 has both tz fm, and tz pm (zpo only has tz-fm) but lacks the waveform outs to take advantage of it the way the omega-phi can. You only get the triangle core unaffected by the pm to contrast.
On the other hand the zpo has pwm modulation which is a big thing, even though it doesn't go to zero which is annoying for me (does it go there with an offset?) and the morphing which is useful.
Of course you could use a comparator like joranalogues compare-2 on the fund or tri output of the g3 to perform pwm.

G3s Even output gives you saw... fund gives sine etc... but of course its handy to have indiv wave outs apart from modulation outputs...like on zpo

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by NoLegs » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:47 am

peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am
This is difficult to say..
Generate 3 has both tz fm, and tz pm (zpo only has tz-fm) but lacks the waveform outs to take advantage of it the way the omega-phi can. You only get the triangle core unaffected by the pm to contrast.
On the other hand the zpo has pwm modulation which is a big thing, even though it doesn't go to zero which is annoying for me (does it go there with an offset?) and the morphing which is useful.
I am trying to replace my omega's to make more room in the case, but none of this oscillators seem to be able to do it for me.
Btw why isn't rubicon 2 on this list? Besides being release earlier it doesn't seem lacking in comparison...
Missed this question about the pwm - it does go to zero with an offset (or other modulation)

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by BasariStudios » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:01 am

oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm
Honestly the ZPO feature set seems a little bloated to me. Why does it need two variable waveshape outputs? If you want to morph, you could use scanning and crossfading with the generate 3 for the same effect. While the generate 3 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the zpo it certainly wins the features:hp category in my book. But ultimately sound is the biggest factor in this debate. Will have to wait for more demos or until I can get my hands on a ZPO.
Morphing and CrossFading are 2 completely different things with 2 completely different
end results and sounds. The ZPO shines over EVERYTHING with its Morphing Outputs and
its Zero Poinnt Control. Zero Poinnt Control is the heart of it. I own both, Rubicon and ZPO,
know them both to their hear and core inside and have pretty clear understanding of the Generate 3.

1. ZPO can offset to 0 PWM, using an external Offset or using the Zero Point Knob, it can be useful
for certain Modulation situations when using the Pulse output and few other things.
2. Morphing and CrossFading are 2 completely different things with 2 completely different
end results and sounds, that is where the ZPO starts to kill all other VCOs in that category.
3. One has to account the ZP Control into all this and its ability to invert when using TZFM and Sync,
that is also where no other VCO can come even close to ZPO.
4. Yes, Rubicon and Generate 3 do TZFM but try doing TZFM with all 3 of thiese VCOs BUT incorporate
all feature Sets on each VCO and then lets see what the end result will be.
5. When doing TZFM on ZPO you have instantaneous access to PWM, 3 Morphing Outs, Sync, Inversion
of the Outputs and the biggest of all, TZFM on ZPO works different, while on Rubicon and Generate
it is combined into 1 Knob as TZFM on the ZPO you have separate control of the Full Wave Rectifier
(Lin or XP FM Knob) and the Reversal of the Wave (ZP Knob). That makes a huge difference and can
be heard and understood only if you play with it, not with words here.
6. ZPOs Sync is something i have never heard before, especially when Inverting the Wave Output or
Morphing the Wave Output.
7. ZPOs ZP Control can do Ring Modulation when no FM is applied into its inputs.
8. the ZPO can give you 11 different LFO WaveShapes which can be variable Shape too.

Those 8 Points above apply only to me since we all have different needs and ways to work and to no
one else but sometimes we have to take certain facts into account. Generate 3 has PM on it but that
has no place in this conversation, we talk about TZFM not PM. I can also say Rubicon 2 can do WaveFolding
(it actually does) but that also has no instant access while doing TZFM while on the ZPO all features
mentioned are instantaneous and in parallel or serial with TZFM, as accessories.

I am actually in the middle of ZPO vs Rubicon Video now, might get the Generate 3 too for all 3.
I did general Video on the ZPO and Sync Detailed Video, how it works on the ZPO.
I have over 30 VCOs as of now, 3 Complex, 2 TZFM, 3 AJH MM, 2 Graphic VCOs and many others,
for me personally nothing comes close to ZPO. The only VCOs i hold above are the AJH MM but
that is due to a sentimental value, feature wise they are very poor.
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by peripatitis » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:08 am

johannes wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:32 am
peripatitis wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:19 am
This is difficult to say..
Generate 3 has both tz fm, and tz pm (zpo only has tz-fm) but lacks the waveform outs to take advantage of it the way the omega-phi can. You only get the triangle core unaffected by the pm to contrast.
On the other hand the zpo has pwm modulation which is a big thing, even though it doesn't go to zero which is annoying for me (does it go there with an offset?) and the morphing which is useful.
Of course you could use a comparator like joranalogues compare-2 on the fund or tri output of the g3 to perform pwm.

G3s Even output gives you saw... fund gives sine etc... but of course its handy to have indiv wave outs apart from modulation outputs...like on zpo
Yeah, I think I would prefer to have more unaffected from the pm outs and a sub (although if I understand it correctly the core is one oct down).
Anyway I have a compare-2 and it is a superb module indeed. I use it to waveshape sines and move between the clean and processed sound. I love it.

As for the morph on the zpo, obviously it is a nice addition especially given the relatively small footprint of the oscillator and it is concise with Cynthia's zero-oscillator which was probably the first commercial available thru-zero osc . I don't consider it a basic function of an osc as I don't consider the bipolar vca's on the G-3 outputs. On the other hand it is nice to get different implementations. Eager to listen to more sound examples!

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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by BasariStudios » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:13 am

This video is mostly about detailed Sync on the ZPO but it also shows everything in conjunction with everything.

[video][/video]
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by peripatitis » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:51 am

BasariStudios wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:01 am
oldenjon wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 pm
Honestly the ZPO feature set seems a little bloated to me. Why does it need two variable waveshape outputs? If you want to morph, you could use scanning and crossfading with the generate 3 for the same effect. While the generate 3 doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the zpo it certainly wins the features:hp category in my book. But ultimately sound is the biggest factor in this debate. Will have to wait for more demos or until I can get my hands on a ZPO.
Morphing and CrossFading are 2 completely different things with 2 completely different
end results and sounds. The ZPO shines over EVERYTHING with its Morphing Outputs and
its Zero Poinnt Control. Zero Poinnt Control is the heart of it. I own both, Rubicon and ZPO,
know them both to their hear and core inside and have pretty clear understanding of the Generate 3.

1. ZPO can offset to 0 PWM, using an external Offset or using the Zero Point Knob, it can be useful
for certain Modulation situations when using the Pulse output and few other things.
2. Morphing and CrossFading are 2 completely different things with 2 completely different
end results and sounds, that is where the ZPO starts to kill all other VCOs in that category.
3. One has to account the ZP Control into all this and its ability to invert when using TZFM and Sync,
that is also where no other VCO can come even close to ZPO.
4. Yes, Rubicon and Generate 3 do TZFM but try doing TZFM with all 3 of thiese VCOs BUT incorporate
all feature Sets on each VCO and then lets see what the end result will be.
5. When doing TZFM on ZPO you have instantaneous access to PWM, 3 Morphing Outs, Sync, Inversion
of the Outputs and the biggest of all, TZFM on ZPO works different, while on Rubicon and Generate
it is combined into 1 Knob as TZFM on the ZPO you have separate control of the Full Wave Rectifier
(Lin or XP FM Knob) and the Reversal of the Wave (ZP Knob). That makes a huge difference and can
be heard and understood only if you play with it, not with words here.
6. ZPOs Sync is something i have never heard before, especially when Inverting the Wave Output or
Morphing the Wave Output.
7. ZPOs ZP Control can do Ring Modulation when no FM is applied into its inputs.
8. the ZPO can give you 11 different LFO WaveShapes which can be variable Shape too.

Those 8 Points above apply only to me since we all have different needs and ways to work and to no
one else but sometimes we have to take certain facts into account. Generate 3 has PM on it but that
has no place in this conversation, we talk about TZFM not PM. I can also say Rubicon 2 can do WaveFolding
(it actually does) but that also has no instant access while doing TZFM while on the ZPO all features
mentioned are instantaneous and in parallel or serial with TZFM, as accessories.

I am actually in the middle of ZPO vs Rubicon Video now, might get the Generate 3 too for all 3.
I did general Video on the ZPO and Sync Detailed Video, how it works on the ZPO.
I have over 30 VCOs as of now, 3 Complex, 2 TZFM, 3 AJH MM, 2 Graphic VCOs and many others,
for me personally nothing comes close to ZPO. The only VCOs i hold above are the AJH MM but
that is due to a sentimental value, feature wise they are very poor.
Can you elaborate on how morphing and crossfading is different in zpo's implementation?
If it was a morph between the waveforms I could see it, but here there are two sets of morphs and a morph between them.
Surely not all of them are morphs/crossfades.
I love you enthusiasm about the zpo but there are things I don't get.
Dismissing tz-pm as a feature is very difficult to understand. Clearly even simply seen as an lfo it is a huge feature.
In g3 it is only in contrast to the core, but on the omega-phi for example you get two full sets of waveforms along their subs
with different phase.
Also zpo's sync, you rave about it but I fail to understand what makes it special
I am looking at my omega-phi and it has discreet inputs for a reverse sync, an up sync, a down sync and a hard sync
where you can also define the point of return.
And then there is the bias switch which I find pretty jaw-dropping and I am quoting Carsten here does this:
The "None Bias" feature could be a very useful function (RTFM;):
Take ANY audio (or not audio) signal and feed the TZ-FM input with it
-> the VCO frequency will always track exactly! this incoming signal.
So, imagine you take a voice, the VCO will track (with its own sound)
in every little nuance (vibrato, whatever)


Now i am sure the zpo is great, i am a big fun of ssf have many of their modules.
The fact that the sub is not affected by fm is almost a show stopper for me, based on my experience of using that feature with the omega
but it offers many other things so it is tempting...

The biggest question for me here, regarding both modules is simple really:
a) show me the sine, i need to hear the sine and how it fm's.
the omega has an index up to 50. It is absolutely gorgeous sounding But for the small indices where I don't get the control I would want to.
I understand this is down to the index vca, an important factor. And in any case the omega can take a lot of abuse there.
b) what happens if there is an offset in the modulation signal?
The omega has a ac-dc switch, I see nothing on the zpo.

damase
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Re: TZFM | ZPO vs. Generate-3

Post by damase » Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:45 pm

peripatitis wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:51 am
the omega has an index up to 50. It is absolutely gorgeous sounding But for the small indices where I don't get the control I would want to.
I understand this is down to the index vca, an important factor. And in any case the omega can take a lot of abuse there.
well, it appears unless im missing something on the panel both the ZPO and the G3 omitted the index vca completely. If we are focussing in on TZFM, this is essential feature and a crime to be missing. Without the index vca and controls honestly it feels less like a TZFM osc and more like a cool osc for other things that has TZFM tacked on... the space difference between these and the rubicon/omega i think becomes not worth it very fast. And of course for many features you could say “i can do that with other external modules” but the fact that you have to do any missing feature elsewhere already forces you into a different sonic direction for the final result

im also a bit confused what you mean about the omega’s index vca being up to 50, in my experience you can overload the tzfm input nicely by turning very high. and i also agree about the sync on omega setting a crazy high bar for sync options.

then there is also the barely reviewed klaungbau tz vco, 10hp and has index vca...

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