Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

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stepvhen
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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by stepvhen » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:15 pm

There are a lot of college kids who are eager to show how smart (or clever) they are. Or at least, there is always one around somewhere. Or at least, if engineering classes are anything like CompSci, there is usually one in one of your classes most semesters (less so in graduate courses).

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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by Mr.Kus » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:32 am

My experience from both engineering and computer science studies was that the information from classes where lecturer spoke alone was much more efficiently obtainable by reading a book and skipping the class. Classes with more open conversations provided a lot of knowledge that was not so easy to get just by studying alone.

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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by AugustusArnone » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:36 am

Totally off topic, I know, but after logging some hours with a ZPO after owning a Rubicon, my impression is simply these are two totally different sounding oscillators. The cool thing about both is the enormous range of timbres they both offer, and the multitude of simultaneous waveform outputs. I'm probably merely stating the obvious, but I think there's not s lot of redundancy in owning both. I also don't think they should be pitted against each other any more than against any other oscillator. The FM modulation on the ZPO sounds totally different than normal FM modulation, through zero or otherwise, because it has AM mixed in.

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Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:03 pm

keyofnight wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:00 am
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:02 pm
Yes, engineering profs hate students who want to delve more deeply into the science in class. It interrupts the flow of the class and wastes everyones time, and most often is just a way of saying "Hey, look at me! Look how smart I am!" Pick up one of the infinite number of books on the topic and read it to your heart's content on your own time -- that's my advice to such students.
Hm. How cynical. :/
Well, I suggest that you stand in front of a class of 50 or 60 paying students, try to get through a lecture which is designed to take 50 minutes to deliver, with quite a few sophisticated concepts and worked examples, and then see how much you like it when some smart-ass monopolizes the discussion with some irrelevant sidebar while the other 49 or 59 students get more and more annoyed and impatient -- and then see if you still think I'm being cynical.

As far as the "nerd war" is concerned, and "science" vs "engineering," I'll just point this out: quite a few folks have designed through-zero VCOs. However, until very recently, only one delivered a reliable and affordable TZFM product and sold hundreds if not thousands of them. I'm talking about the Intellijel Rubicon and Rubicon 2. This is the difference between science and engineering: science is fun, but engineering is where the rubber hits the road.
this night wounds time,

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keyofnight
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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by keyofnight » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:00 pm

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:03 pm
Well, I suggest that you stand in front of a class of 50 or 60 paying students, try to get through a lecture which is designed to take 50 minutes to deliver, with quite a few sophisticated concepts and worked examples, and then see how much you like it when some smart-ass monopolizes the discussion with some irrelevant sidebar while the other 49 or 59 students get more and more annoyed and impatient -- and then see if you still think I'm being cynical.
I'm not sure why you're presuming I haven't had that experience—given what I've told you about myself.

Yes, I've taught at the university level many times, and I've had lots of students like that. Students are students, though… and I just do my best to draw out the quiet ones and channel the enthusiasm of the talkative ones back into the material. Generally, I find that I just have to be open to figuring out how their comments relate to the lecture, and do my best to connect the dots back to some relevant part of it. If that's impossible, I just offer to talk to them after class so you can make it through the lecture? I mean, I'm sure I don't have to tell you any of this, you're much further along in academia than I am.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:03 pm
As far as the "nerd war" is concerned, and "science" vs "engineering," I'll just point this out: quite a few folks have designed through-zero VCOs. However, until very recently, only one delivered a reliable and affordable TZFM product and sold hundreds if not thousands of them. I'm talking about the Intellijel Rubicon and Rubicon 2. This is the difference between science and engineering: science is fun, but engineering is where the rubber hits the road.
This "science" vs "engineering" debate is not all that illuminating, as far as I'm concerned. "Science is fun, but engineering is where the rubber hits the road"? This is a funny slogan. Most of the scientists I know are deeply involved in engineering work (especially at my uni…where many of the scientists I know write patents, create products, and spin off startups). Most of the engineers I know do scientific work to understand the problems they want to solve, test their designs, and so on. I'm sure your university has seen similar crosstalk between science and engineering fields. (In fact, I'm pretty sure of it.) The distinctions between engineering and science are blurring more and more daily… but then again, they weren't very sharp in the first place. Further, many inquiries are better accomplished through interdisciplinary study / effort. All that to say, this weird "us" vs "them" stuff isn't all that helpful.

About the Rubicon… good job, and congratulations. People love the Rubicon. I hope you enjoy your success? There's no need to trash other people, though.
AugustusArnone wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:36 am
Totally off topic, I know, but after logging some hours with a ZPO after owning a Rubicon, my impression is simply these are two totally different sounding oscillators. The cool thing about both is the enormous range of timbres they both offer, and the multitude of simultaneous waveform outputs. I'm probably merely stating the obvious, but I think there's not s lot of redundancy in owning both. I also don't think they should be pitted against each other any more than against any other oscillator. The FM modulation on the ZPO sounds totally different than normal FM modulation, through zero or otherwise, because it has AM mixed in.
Thanks for the helpful comparison. I think this is usually the conclusion even for modules that are more similar than the ZPO and Rubicon2: they're different enough that you should buy both. The ability to shift between AM, FM, and some kind of bizzaro TZFM-thing so easily seemed to be a big part of the ZPO's appeal, for sure.
"…an answer which cannot be expressed the question too cannot be expressed. […] If a question can be put at all, then it can also be answered." Wittgenstein, Tractatus, §6.52

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Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by Dr. Sketch-n-Etch » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:38 pm

I wasn't trying to trash-talk anyone, but the only TZFM VCO that was available when we first marketed the Rubicon was $1200 and not really "available" because the company making it had gone belly up at that point. Plus, I acquired one to test it against the Rubicon, only to discover that it didn't work. It also weighed a couple of pounds because it had so much circuitry in it -- the main PCB looked like a 1980s motherboard -- basically, an impossible module to troubleshoot and repair.

Also, concerning "science" vs "engineering" I don't really believe half the things I say. It's true that I never enjoyed doing science myself, but we do quite a bit of science in my lab at school. I have a brilliant chemist and all around science nerd in my lab, and he has been exceptionally productive when it comes to patentable matter. In fact, we have either received or applied for more than 10 patents since he has been with me. Also, the work we have done over the last five years has resulted in a spin-off company which has become very valuable indeed. In fact, there was a very positive story about it in the Financial Times earlier this week.
this night wounds time,

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keyofnight
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Re: Intellijel Rubicon 2 vs SSF Zero Point Oscillator

Post by keyofnight » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:42 pm

Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:38 pm
Also, concerning "science" vs "engineering" I don't really believe half the things I say. It's true that I never enjoyed doing science myself, but we do quite a bit of science in my lab at school. I have a brilliant chemist and all around science nerd in my lab, and he has been exceptionally productive when it comes to patentable matter. In fact, we have either received or applied for more than 10 patents since he has been with me. Also, the work we have done over the last five years has resulted in a spin-off company which has become very valuable indeed. In fact, there was a very positive story about it in the Financial Times earlier this week.
I know. 8-)

(Congrats on the story, btw. It always feels great when the lab gets press.)
"…an answer which cannot be expressed the question too cannot be expressed. […] If a question can be put at all, then it can also be answered." Wittgenstein, Tractatus, §6.52

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