Pingable AHR envelopes?

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Tristana
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Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Tristana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:14 pm

Are there modules that generate 'Attack-Hold-Release' envelopes when sent a trigger? Upon receiving a trigger, the module will rise for a certain time, hold for a certain time, then release for a certain time- with all of those times being adjustable.

I'm looking to introduce 'windowed modulation' into my rig; to run a weird signal like a wogglebug into a VCA, and have that VCA controlled by the AHR; which is in turn sequenced to output at specific rhythmic intervals. Could be something like this, or trapezoidal (linear rise/fall), without necessarily having the symmetry of the rise/fall times:
photo_2020-01-10_17-08-58.jpg
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Mark II » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:27 pm

An ADSR envelope with Decay set to 0 and Sustain set to max should do it. Wiggle the Attack and release to match, and send longish gates. That will give you the contour you’re looking for.
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Artaos » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:36 pm

The OP is trying to do that with a trigger, not a gate, as I understand it, so a regular ADSR wouldn’t work.

Yes it’s possible. Any ADSR with a “hold” function (AHDSR) would do exactly what you need. Search for “hold” in the Envelope Generator category on modular grid. Various manufacturers make such modules: AJH, Doepfer, Verbos, Malekko, etc.

Also, if you have any envelope generator with a “rising” or “falling” gate output such as Joranalogue Contour 1, you can use it to create the gate you need from a trigger and into a regular AR envelope.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by luketeaford » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:49 pm

You can patch it with Maths. The trick is to use the trigger to turn cycle on which will start the full cycle. I think in order to be exactly what you're wanting you'll have to use CH 1 and CH 4, but in some cases you could probably compromise by feeding back the envelope shape so it is slowly slightly rising or falling rather than sustaining.

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Tristana
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Tristana » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:54 pm

Artaos wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:36 pm
Yes it’s possible. Any ADSR with a “hold” function (AHDSR) would do exactly what you need. Search for “hold” in the Envelope Generator category on modular grid. Various manufacturers make such modules: AJH, Doepfer, Verbos, Malekko, etc.
So if an AHDSR module is sent a trigger- will it go through the attack stage, hold stage, then release stage (what I want)- or will it immediately jump to the release stage without rising much due to the second edge of the trigger?
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Artaos » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:16 am

Tristana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:54 pm
Artaos wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:36 pm
Yes it’s possible. Any ADSR with a “hold” function (AHDSR) would do exactly what you need. Search for “hold” in the Envelope Generator category on modular grid. Various manufacturers make such modules: AJH, Doepfer, Verbos, Malekko, etc.
So if an AHDSR module is sent a trigger- will it go through the attack stage, hold stage, then release stage (what I want)- or will it immediately jump to the release stage without rising much due to the second edge of the trigger?
It might depend on the specific module. But for example, read up about the DH-ADSR module by AJH Synth on their website. They have an in depth article and I think it does what you need. There might be other manufacturers, obviously. And like mentioned above, it could also be patched creatively from other modules in your system, depending on what you have.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Tristana » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:08 am

Artaos wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:16 am
It might depend on the specific module. But for example, read up about the DH-ADSR module by AJH Synth on their website. They have an in depth article and I think it does what you need. There might be other manufacturers, obviously. And like mentioned above, it could also be patched creatively from other modules in your system, depending on what you have.
Ah okay- it seems this is what I'm after! It seems that in Del-Hld mode, with Sustain all the way up and Pre-delay all the way down, I can create a shape similar to my original post with AHR control.
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by R.U.Nuts » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:58 am

You could pair a gate delay with adjustable gate lenght and a function generator. Send your trigger into the gate delay. By setting the gate lenght you adjust the hold time of the envelope. Then patch that gate from the gate delay into the signal input of the function generator. Rise = attack, fall = release.
You can do that with Maths as well:
Trigger into CH 1 trigger input.
CH 1 EOR output into CH 4 signal input
Take envelope from CH 4 out.
The rise time of CH 1 is your hold time, rise and fall of CH 4 are attack and release.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by freqout » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:03 pm

You could accomplish this with mutable instruments stages as well

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by synonymist » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:19 pm

Tristana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:14 pm
Are there modules that generate 'Attack-Hold-Release' envelopes when sent a trigger? Upon receiving a trigger, the module will rise for a certain time, hold for a certain time, then release for a certain time- with all of those times being adjustable.

I'm looking to introduce 'windowed modulation' into my rig; to run a weird signal like a wogglebug into a VCA, and have that VCA controlled by the AHR; which is in turn sequenced to output at specific rhythmic intervals. Could be something like this, or trapezoidal (linear rise/fall), without necessarily having the symmetry of the rise/fall times:

photo_2020-01-10_17-08-58.jpg
Hello. The Piqued app in Ornament and Crime will do this. From the manual:

"If you only have trigger signals, that is, short pulses, then you can create an AHR envelope by choosing ADR mode, and setting the sustain inflection point to 255 (maximum). By doing that, the decay segment falls from maximum value to... maximum value - in other words, it’s flat! The decay segment time/duration then sets the hold duration after a trigger is received. Also try setting the sustain level in ADR mode to something a little bit less than 255 (say 230), and set the decay shape to Wiggle. Now you have an AHR envelope with a wiggly and slightly downsloping plateau segment. Several variations on this theme are possible."

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by cptnal » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:29 am

Seconding MI Stages. It's made for this kind of thing - much flexibility in enveloping.

Arneb
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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Arneb » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:10 pm

Another idea: A trigger-to-gate module (say, Doepfer A-142-1) patched into an ASR envelope.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by khyber » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:12 am

Harvestman Double Andore MKI can do AHD

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Arneb » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 am

khyber wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:12 am
Harvestman Double Andore MKI can do AHD
Can it? My interpretation of the description on Modulargrid is that they wrote AHD but meant ASR.

Edit: I suspect the Andore Jr. will have actual AHD functionality, but we'll have to await its release.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by khyber » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:16 pm

Arneb wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 am
Can it? My interpretation of the description on Modulargrid is that they wrote AHD but meant ASR.

Edit: I suspect the Andore Jr. will have actual AHD functionality, but we'll have to await its release.
It can, the second envelope mode is AHD. Here's an explainer image another wiggler put together at some point:

Image

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Arneb » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:38 pm

khyber wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:16 pm
Arneb wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 am
Can it? My interpretation of the description on Modulargrid is that they wrote AHD but meant ASR.

Edit: I suspect the Andore Jr. will have actual AHD functionality, but we'll have to await its release.
It can, the second envelope mode is AHD. Here's an explainer image another wiggler put together at some point:

Image
That's what I'd call an ASR envelope - "holds envelope at max value when gate is held", i.e. envelope length is determined by gate length, envelope is sustained as long as gate is high. An AHD envelope, to me, is one where length of the high phase (or Hold phase) isn't determined by gate length but instead dialed/CVed in like Attack/Decay/Release values usually are. OP asked about using triggers to trigger the envelope, not long gates, which suggests that they want my interpretation of the term "AHD" as opposed to The Harvestman's.

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by autopoiesis » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:22 pm

this can be done with 2 channels of Zadar. choose an ordinary AD shape (B0) for the first channel, and the adjustable width pulse shape (L0) for the second channel. patch the second channel's output into the first channel's trig input, adjust the Sustain point on the first channel to occur at the peak of the transient (or wherever you want the hold to occur), and adjusting Warp on the second channel determines how long the hold occurs for. trigger goes into the second channel

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Bishop Dust » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Klavis - Quadigy !

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Re: Pingable AHR envelopes?

Post by Zentek » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:15 pm

Tristana wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:14 pm
Are there modules that generate 'Attack-Hold-Release' envelopes when sent a trigger? Upon receiving a trigger, the module will rise for a certain time, hold for a certain time, then release for a certain time- with all of those times being adjustable.
The Klavis Quadigy can do exactly what you describe.
It is a quad channel envelope generator where you can set all curves independently per segment (A, D, R) and modulate each timing and curve by CV.

The module is sold out in most places but a few shops still have some.
A new batch is planned for March.
Klavis
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