Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by starthief » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:36 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:42 am
Has anyone put it through Rings yet? I think a resonator would serve this thing well.
Rings tends to obscure the frequency relationships between oscillators in ENOSC -- for the most part there isn't a lot of advantage over using a basic oscillator to excite Rings, except you can do some sweeps of Root or Spread and Rings kind of blurs them out in ways that might be interesting.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by hawkfuzz » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:41 pm

I was thinking drones and modulation would be nice.
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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by starthief » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:13 pm

There are a few interesting possibilities. I think for the most part, ENOSC's textures sound best when not completely drowned by a resonator... but mixing some of the dry signal in with the Rings output is another story.

(Experimenting with this gave me the impetus to record a track, with just ENOSC, RIngs, Blinds and Phonogene... so thanks for that :D)

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by hawkfuzz » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:00 pm

I believe there's a lot of sweet spots you could find with those two and I'm excited to hear what you've done.
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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by stylesforfree » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:57 am

I tried calibrating, in regards to using it with the Hermod but couldnt get any results. I also used the CV out from a Moog sub 37CV.

I followed the instructions to a T. unpatch everything except output, press both buttons for 2 seconds, learn button flashes blue, input C2 then press learn.

But the module just flashes and resets. Then I go to play a sequence and it doesnt track over more than 2-3 octaves.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by stylesforfree » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:06 pm

I did a video of some knob twiddling. It seems to track ok with my subsequent 37 controlling the pitch but not the hermod.

In this video I use pams new workout as a quantiser for the pitch.


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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by HughEye » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:35 pm

[/quote]

I've got two out of the three criteria but I'm not big on filters and only have one in the case where my ENOSC lives. So it might be a struggle. I get what you are saying about the top end tending to dominate (is that harsh or just too bright?) but I think it can be pulled back and tamed without filters. One if the things I discovered quickly is that this thing eats attenuators. If you want subtle, more gentle sounds you really have to dial down the modulation of the various wave shaping inputs.

Is something like this too harsh for your taste? No filters or eq, just some reverb



[/quote]

Umcorp I tried all afternoon to emulate this lovely little piece and couldn't get close (Marbles with EG, Ochd attenuated for the mods). I'm new to modular, a few months. I've had the EnOsc for a few days and I'm struggling with it. The thing I can't understand is how people are modulating the scales or pitches without awful results. It's not diatonic. I tried to do your patch but I would get the Bach Cantata e.g. D-Dm all the time, or worse, with the scales. Any time I've tried to modulate the pitch while staying on a scale I get this kind of Deep Purple bar chord sound. If it's on the major triad in C, for example, when the pitch changes, it doesn't go to Dm, it goes to D, then to E, or G#, all major chords. Very late 60s/early 70s.

When modulating scale, it might go from a Cm to an Amaj7. That could work and sound good but there would have to be some pretty inventive ways of getting from one to the other. This just slams them all together. Cm. Amaj7. Ebmaj7, etc. Even with attenuation, it gets pretty avant garde, not always in a good way. The only way I can see to modulate pitch without Deep Purple or Bartok is to stay on 5ths or octaves.

Having said this, I've heard a lot of great stuff with the EnOsc, so I think I'm just not getting it. I don't know how to use it, or how it's meant to be used.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by starthief » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm

I don't think there's one single "how it's meant to be used" with this module.

I find without even getting into chords -- just staying on octaves, or octaves+fifths, or Bohlen-Pierce major (which has consistent interval ratios) -- there are all kinds of techniques available for it when droning or sequencing the pitch, and I've gotten some startlingly different results. If there's a characteristic sound that I have been getting from it, it's "string synth" -- but it can go weird static bursts, 808 cymbal noise, a sort of auto-vibrato, all sorts of FM possibilities, pipe organs and sounds that defy description.

I think if you're going for something deliberate and polyphonic, you may have to coordinate scale, root and pitch (and possibly spread) in a sequencer with multiple CV channels. It may help to define your own scales. If you're going to use it as a sort of polyphonic arpeggio machine that might be simpler.

But for something more experimental, there are other routes you can go -- I think the strength of the module is more in new possibilities and discoveries, and in the crossover between pitch in music theory and frequency in sound design, than in traditional music composition.

Personally when I work with ENOSC I'm more likely to think about FM ratios and harmonics than chords and scales, because that's more how I'm inclined. If I wanted to do more traditional music I'd use a polysynth and MIDI sequencing (probably in a DAW).

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by HughEye » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:34 pm

starthief wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm

Personally when I work with ENOSC I'm more likely to think about FM ratios and harmonics than chords and scales, because that's more how I'm inclined. If I wanted to do more traditional music I'd use a polysynth and MIDI sequencing (probably in a DAW).
Starthief thanks for your insights. What you describe is my goal with this. I’ve got plenty of virtual instruments and hardware synths, so that’s not my goal, I.e. “making songs.” I want pleasant surprises and experimental soundscapes, occasional atonal is fine. But just not Cm to Amaj7 to Fm7 etc. I see people modulating scale successfully though, and I don’t get it. Or pitch. Or both! But when I do it it sounds like a toddler banging on a piano.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by HughEye » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:16 pm

starthief wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm
I don't think there's one single "how it's meant to be used" with this module.
I had to look up Bohlen Pierce major, pretty cool. It brought me to this polychromatic piece, which actually sounds like some of my results with both scale and pitch being modulated.



To me, what makes it accessible is the passing tones. Same with some of the BP stuff like this wonderful song by Elaine Walker. So maybe if I do venture out from 5ths and octaves, do another pass and try to figure out some cool atonal melodies on top of it.

Thanks again for your suggestions!

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by qwoned » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:20 pm

Is it possible to modulate the sequence/order/series of the harmonics? Am I correct in understanding the “Root” offset controls the ordering position of a harmonic degree, with modulation resulting in various inversions and permutations of the “scale” degrees? Or is this affected by the “Pitch” offset (if achievable at all)? The manual terminology is a bit conflatory. Hope this makes sense.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by qwoned » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:20 am

I'm hoping my question will deflate suspicions of this being little more than a Fourier-based arpeggiator, which is sort of what it seems like based on reading the manual.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by half.cto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:24 am

qwoned wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:20 pm
Is it possible to modulate the sequence/order/series of the harmonics? Am I correct in understanding the “Root” offset controls the ordering position of a harmonic degree, with modulation resulting in various inversions and permutations of the “scale” degrees? Or is this affected by the “Pitch” offset (if achievable at all)? The manual terminology is a bit conflatory. Hope this makes sense.
If I understand your question correctly then yes you can modulate sequence/order/series by changing scale since scale here determines what harmoinc series you have avalable. I agree that naming choices on this module are a bit confusing.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by qwoned » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:40 am

Thanks for your reply. So, once a "scale" is defined, the order of the interval series belonging to each scale is fixed as linear?
e.g. Scale #1 is [0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7], 12TET. With modulation applied to Root or Pitch offsets, could the order be changed to [4, 7, 6, 0, 3, 1] then [4, 0, 1, 6, 7, 3] then [0, 7, 1, 4, 6, 3] then… etc? Or is the series merely transposed in octaves and repeatedly cycled through?

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by half.cto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:31 am

qwoned wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:40 am
Thanks for your reply. So, once a "scale" is defined, the order of the interval series belonging to each scale is fixed as linear?
e.g. Scale #1 is [0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7], 12TET. With modulation applied to Root or Pitch offsets, could the order be changed to [4, 7, 6, 0, 3, 1] then [4, 0, 1, 6, 7, 3] then [0, 7, 1, 4, 6, 3] then… etc? Or is the series merely transposed in octaves and repeatedly cycled through?
Pitch will set allowed notes for scale, Root sets the lowest pitch, so modulating it will give you [0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7] [1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 0 ][3, 4, 6, 7, 0, 1 ][ 4, 6, 7,0, 1, 3 ] transposing up and down within allowed pitches. Then you can use Spread to get [0, 3, 6, 0, 3, 6] or [0, 4, 1, 6,3, 7 ] or whatever pitch and allowed notes will allow (I'm making these up, but you get the idea).
At least, thats how I understand it.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Umcorps » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:52 am

Does this help any?




Limited ENOsc to 4 or 5 oscillators with medium spread and some wave shaping to make the sound more distinct. Stuck to banks 1 and 2 to keep it 12 tet.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by qwoned » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:45 pm

Umcorps wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:52 am
Does this help any?




Limited ENOsc to 4 or 5 oscillators with medium spread and some wave shaping to make the sound more distinct. Stuck to banks 1 and 2 to keep it 12 tet.
Yes, thank you!

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Umcorps » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:46 am

Fwiw things got a bit more abstract later in the same session. ;)


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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Exit Chamber » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:41 am

Umcorps wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:46 am
Fwiw things got a bit more abstract later in the same session. ;)

This is great. Could you break down the patch a bit please?

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Umcorps » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:37 am

Sure! These are the front panel settings
IMG_2406.jpg
Using Bank 2, scale 7 of the factory scales. Oscillator numbers set to 4 or 5. Crossfading set to about 80%

Pitch is determined by a channel of Marbles quantised to a major scale.

Root is modulated by a slewed quantised voltage from Marbles.

Spread and twist are modulated by attenuated copies of the main amplitude envelope (Triatt A and B)

Warp is modulated by another attenuated slewed output from Marbles. (Triatt C)

It goes out via an enveloped VCA triggered from the Marbles channel associated to Pitch through a 1000 msec delay into an FX aid reverb (Big sky alike) and that goes direct into the camera.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Electro Something » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:37 pm

Anyone hooked their Keystep Pro up to the Ensemble? I can't get the KeyStep to track the pitch of the Ensemble at all. Although my Matriarch tracks it just fine and other LFO's modulate it great.

I got the KeyStep Pro set to 1V/Oct but I get nothing. Both the KeyStep and Ensemble are new to me so I'm sure I'm just doing something dumb.

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by hawkfuzz » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:57 pm

You’ll figure it out.

What’s your signal chain? What’s the module going out into?
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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by Electro Something » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:17 pm

hawkfuzz wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:57 pm
You’ll figure it out.

What’s your signal chain? What’s the module going out into?
Cheers for the reply!

The Keystep Pro’s pitch out going in to the pitch in of the Ensemble. Ensemble going directly to my mixer.

No bueno? 🤷‍♂️

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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by hawkfuzz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:49 pm

Where are the knobs? I know if the ROOT knob is too far down it’ll be too low to hear.
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Re: Ensemble Oscillator from Matthias Puech & 4ms Company

Post by JES » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:26 pm

Ordered. I’ve been wanting a harmonic oscillator and an all in one complex oscillator. And this appears to be both (or the parts of both that I want).
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