Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

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saemola
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Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:49 pm

I'm in the middle of a sequencer makeover and I've been out of the Eurorack news for a long while so I don't quite know what's out there at the moment.
Right now I have a René, but I'm going to sell it as I don't find much use for it and I can't gel with the interface.
The plan is to get either a Malekko Voltage Block or a Mutable Instruments Frames, basically something that allows me multiple modulation channels per steps, and to pair them with a simple, single channel pitch sequencer.

There is a single feature that I want from that simple sequencer which René can give me: to be able to modulate the step position while leaving the sequence length undisturbed.
What I mean is, with René I can get a quantized sequence going and slightly and randomly "disturb" it by modulating the X-CV input. René will suddenly jump to other positions in the sequence, but as soon as I cut the X-CV input, the step position will be exactly what it would be if I didn't modulate it, essentially leaving the sequence length/time unaltered.
Much easier to show than to explain, but I think René users know what I'm talking about.

Do you know of other small, simple, 16-step sequencers that allow for that?
It doesn't have to be a Euro module. It can be an external piece of hardware too, like BeatStep or similar.
An alternative to Voltage Block/Frames + simple sequencer could be to get a single Erica Synth Black Sequencer which seems to be able to achieve most of what all these modules put together can, but it's still not out and I'm not sure it can be as deep as VB/Frames.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by spinalbeatz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:08 pm

Look into the Mimetic Digitalis from Noise Engineering. It allows you to modulate step position very similarly to Rene, although I'm not 100% sure if it jumps back to its "original" step after modulation.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by tvparcable » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:20 pm

spinalbeatz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:08 pm
Look into the Mimetic Digitalis from Noise Engineering. It allows you to modulate step position very similarly to Rene, although I'm not 100% sure if it jumps back to its "original" step after modulation.
+1, the Mimetic Digitalis can do just that. However, I don't think it actually memorizes the step position: if I understand well, the Mimetic is actually agnostic of exact step positions. The way it works is that it has several inputs, each dedicating a "direction" in which to move to the next step. It moves to the next step when the input receives a trigger. For example, axis X will only move left to right horizontally, input N will do the entire 16 steps, etc. If your concern is sync, note that there is also a reset input, called O for Origin: it will jump back to step 1 when it receives a trigger, so you can use that to ensure your sequence is reset in sync with whatever else you have going. I actually received mine yesterday, I'll be happy to test out some functionalities if you want, let me know.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by joem » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:27 pm

If you have a sequencer that has CV over which step you're on, you can accomplish this by mixing the ramp that you're using to driving it with external voltages to disturb it, and then when you remove those external voltages it'll be back in sync.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:27 pm

Thanks for the Mimetic Digitalis suggestion, however I don’t think it’s gonna work if it is, as tvparcable says, step agnostic. And a simple reset I put won’t work either because I want it to know where it is at all time, not just every beginning of a bar.
Tomorrow I’m gonna post a quick René video just to make sure we’re on the same page on this.

The ramp idea might actually be perfect. It’d take up an LFO, but it would also open up possibilities for many more sequencers. I could just disturb the ramp itself with the Wogglebug and that’d be it.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by electricanada » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:38 pm

A-152 and a programmer will do it.
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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by BaloErets » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:30 pm

saemola wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:27 pm
The ramp idea might actually be perfect. It’d take up an LFO, but it would also open up possibilities for many more sequencers. I could just disturb the ramp itself with the Wogglebug and that’d be it.
I promise you that it doesn't take up an LFO but does indeed use one, and that's what they are there for! :hihi:

I've used this technique coupled with a matrix mixer and it works spectacularly.

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saemola
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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:20 pm

I used to have a 152 but that’s 8 steps. I’d like at least 16.

Hehe, I guess that’s what LFOs are fore. You’re right.
The only problem I’m thinking of is I would need a syncable LFO since I always want to be able to sync the sequence to my computer. Didn’t have that problem when clocking from my CVPal.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by electricanada » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:26 pm

saemola wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:20 pm
I used to have a 152 but that’s 8 steps. I’d like at least 16.
A-138m, A-152, and A-150 gives you 16 steps. (I can’t help it; it’s a sickness.)
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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by electricanada » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:54 pm

ADDAC 206 is a nice module. Paired with the A138m you’d have a 16 step sequencer with CV step skipping when you want it.
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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:55 pm

Haha ok I think we’re going a little overboard now. Was planning on keeping it simple.
Any idea if I can achieve that with a Korg SQ-1?
It’s small, cheap and immediate. I just fail to understand how the Sync input works on this.

Edit:
Nope. Looks like Sync only accepts certain kinds of clocks and no v/oct.
Too bad, this would have been just perfect.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by Eurtrude » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:26 am

saemola wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:55 pm
Haha ok I think we’re going a little overboard now. Was planning on keeping it simple.
Do you have an ornament & crime in your setup ? If so, you should try the Hemisphere firmware and look for the "Carpeggio" app.

Basically, you can program an grid of 16 notes (4*4). When you clock it without CV input, it acts as a basic 16 step sequencer. The 2 CV inputs permit you, when a trig or a gate is recieved in the O&C, to dial in X coordinates and Y coordinates to choose the note between the 16 you programmed. So, basically, you can derive a lot of sequences from the one you orginally programmed. It's a little bit like René I think (I don't own one so I can't tell really).

I don't know if I'm clear enought, but here is the wiki page of the app : https://github.com/Chysn/O_C-Hemisphere ... rpeggiator

It is really awesome. Moreover, you can have 2 of these sequencers running at the same time with one module :). I use it all the time, with a voltage block hooked to the CV inputs.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:12 pm

I wasn't aware of O&C, but it sounds pretty great. I'm getting a norns vibe out of it.

Turns out my search for this sequencer might be more complicated than I first thought: I'm excluding the "ramp into v/oct input" idea cause I'm realizing that makes syncing it with my computer harder (right now I do that with a CVPal), so all I'm left with is either a sequencer with a modulation input ala René, or a deeper system ala O&C with quirky firmwares that achieve exactly what I want, or... René itself.

I can't imagine that "disturbing" a sequencer is a niche thing so I'm wondering... do you guys achieve that some other way that I'm not thinking of?

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by suckerformimi » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:04 am

I am also searching hard for the perfect sequencer. Mimetic Digitalis did not work for me because you can't made meaningful edits while playing. All values are edited with that one knob and on the current step, so you have to stop the sequencer.

My Rene 2 showed up yesterday and I am much happier.

The perfect sequencer doesn't seem to exist. For me that would be the Rene 2 with SH-101 style editing and another mod output per channel. So Rene is pretty close.

I have Yarns which is incredibly fun. Play a sequence of notes a la SH-101, hit play and transpose it with the keyboard. But only one track.

I also got Hermod, which I am returning. Huge disappointment. The screen is microscopic, the MIDI effects are lame, and editing steps is awkward.

I also sold my Metropolis. Extremely deep, disturbable, great for happy accidents. But only 1 track, the buttons are hard to work, it's buggy, can't be updated. You can obviously do longer sequences with it, but fundamentally the fact that it's an 8 step sequencer is front an center.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by BaloErets » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:46 pm

saemola wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:12 pm
I can't imagine that "disturbing" a sequencer is a niche thing so I'm wondering... do you guys achieve that some other way that I'm not thinking of?
It's not so much niche as it is in what context you want to disturb. If you have a clock running at 1/5 of the tempo that put into the reset of you sequence, you are indeed disturbing. Almost every sequencer has a reset input or a way to do reset.
But if you are talking on terms of amount of different types of input to manipulate the position of the sequence, then unfortunately for you, Rene is probably one of those that has the best options in that regard. Stilton Hammer might be something for you to look into.

To be honest, the Frap Tools URSA for me was a dream come true sequencer for me, but only has 2 CV inputs which is way too limiting for me in the sense of how I like to "sequencer my sequencers". If ever there is an expansion or an mk2 that offers more CV control, then it would be the dream sequencer for me.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by damase » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:40 am

cool thread, i like the ideas

i like to use the quantized out n+1 from Verbos Random Sampling mixed into to a sequencer voltages. Without a clock in it, it still powers on with random stored values, if you stick an envelope in the cv input it sort of arpeggiates these values. You can also just twist the knob to adjust your base note value which if your using a quantizer can sound like a modal shift(from c ionian to f lydian for example)... its just adding a static voltage but since the values are stored you can easily get back to your original base note

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by evileye0702 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:26 pm

Simple is a relative term. While not simple in terms of cost or space, the KOMA Komplex has just what you are looking for and a lot more.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:27 pm

BaloErets wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:46 pm
saemola wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:12 pm
I can't imagine that "disturbing" a sequencer is a niche thing so I'm wondering... do you guys achieve that some other way that I'm not thinking of?
It's not so much niche as it is in what context you want to disturb. If you have a clock running at 1/5 of the tempo that put into the reset of you sequence, you are indeed disturbing. Almost every sequencer has a reset input or a way to do reset.
But if you are talking on terms of amount of different types of input to manipulate the position of the sequence, then unfortunately for you, Rene is probably one of those that has the best options in that regard. Stilton Hammer might be something for you to look into.

To be honest, the Frap Tools URSA for me was a dream come true sequencer for me, but only has 2 CV inputs which is way too limiting for me in the sense of how I like to "sequencer my sequencers". If ever there is an expansion or an mk2 that offers more CV control, then it would be the dream sequencer for me.
For some reason I didn't get any reply notifications so I missed some some.
Here's a video of what I mean by "disturb":

The annoying click is there to mark each downbeat and show that every time I stop "disturbing" the sequence (which means injecting random voltages into René's X-CV) the sequence is exactly where it is supposed to be without skipping steps, meaning if I had two identical sequences running in parallel and only randomized sequence A while letting sequence B run undisturbed, each time I stopped the randomization the sequences would play in unison, no matter how light or heavy the amount of modulation.

USTA looks fantastic. Deep functionality with an excellent, easy to use interface.
The function I'm looking for is actually being showed here at around the 6:05 mark:
However, it's not clear what happens to the sequence once external modulation is turned off and if Ext Mod takes over all the time if selected in the menu or only when a signal is applied to the input.

I know of Koma, but that's just overkill for me and way above my price range.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:24 pm

have you looked at tetrapad + tête? in "voltages mode" (with the CV or trig inputs on the expander modulating X, Y, or absolute position) it works just like Rene but with 8 CV outputs (and no knobs).

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 pm

Wasn't aware of it. I'm not sure I'm loving the interface, but it's an interesting take.
Seems very performance oriented with the touch pad.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by mildheadwound » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:31 am

Brainseed.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:08 am

oh yeah, I forgot also about the little 10hp Bastl Popcorn. only 8 steps, and pretty small knobs, but they're all there on the panel. you can send it CV to offset the active step (ie stages addressed via CV). as soon as the CV returns to 0V the sequencer will resume where it was, as the OP is looking for.

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by saemola » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:25 am

autopoiesis wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:08 am
oh yeah, I forgot also about the little 10hp Bastl Popcorn. only 8 steps, and pretty small knobs, but they're all there on the panel. you can send it CV to offset the active step (ie stages addressed via CV). as soon as the CV returns to 0V the sequencer will resume where it was, as the OP is looking for.
CV Offset! That’s what I’m trying to achieve. Would have reduced my explanation from two pages two one sentence.
I’m looking for a sequence that would let me temporarily offset its stage via CV input. Phew... that was easy!
Popcorn would be perfect if it had 16 steps. Less than that I really don’t think is doable for me though. Still, thanks for the suggestion!
I’m still trying to wrap my head around Brainseed...

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:13 am

for what it's worth, you can chain 2 popcorns via a ribbon cable behind the panels to get 16 steps, and CV control and other settings get inherited from whichever is the "master."

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Re: Recommend a simple sequencer I can "disturb" ala René

Post by kpreid » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:23 am

If you want 16 steps and the ability to return to the clocked position, maybe you should take another look at Mimetic Digitalis. It was mentioned earlier but missing part of its capabilities. It has two sets of control inputs: one set (N,X,Y,R,O) takes triggers which advance it as a clocked sequencer, but the other set (CV-N,CV-X,CV-Y) take CV which offsets the step being output temporarily from the step determined by clocking, and whenever the CV-* inputs are zero it's on the step it would have been on if they were always zero, which is what you want if I understand correctly.

However, it's still a sequencer that you have to set by one knob. (You can zero or randomize any channel of the entire pattern, but not edit a specific step without pausing and advancing the sequence to that step.)

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