Behringer Roland System 100M clone

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SkyWriter
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:51 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:43 pm
Yes, I thought ptototype-ish. "Prototype" means something different when you're mass producing.
Like an intentional color variation to quickly-visibly track the results, and keep-go back to the old color once results are proven.
That's what I remember we used to, but I could never tell the difference in color. I always went by part number.

If they own the PCB process, then they will be tweaking their process as production runs. Process is always getting tweaked with supplier chain changes. Prototypes lots are usually only 10 or so at a time. Those never ship to customers - beta's may be some - and never leave the lab unless it's via the scrap bucket.

But again, any of my color based rhetoric is probably suspect LOL!
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by ranzee » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:22 am

Synthbuilder wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:18 am
A new version of the 112 VCO has landed. Complete with temp co resistors - these are the slightly bigger resistors (0805 size) near the larger chip in the middle of the board. Basically a surface mount version of my modification. You're welcome Uli.

The new board is the green one. So don't buy orange ones unless you don't mind scale drift or fancy doing a tricky modification.


New VCO design.jpg
This was my photo. The actual colour of the PCB of the new revision may not be green (it may or may not be green) - however it will have REV C (or greater) stamped on there. So ensure your module is a REV C or newer.

Also - I used to have a muffwiggler login, and it didn't work (google passwords remembered it) - so not sure but re-registered today. So I guess I'll just look like a newb again ;)
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:52 am

ranzee wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:22 am
This was my photo. The actual colour of the PCB of the new revision may not be green (it may or may not be green) - however it will have REV C (or greater) stamped on there. So ensure your module is a REV C or newer.
Have we got a change in exterior packing? I don't see a clear revision on the boxes.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by Synthbuilder » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:53 am

ranzee wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:22 am
This was my photo.
I just discovered this from your post on GS. I originally got it from another interested party who had found it on Facebook. I hope it was OK to post it on here.
The actual colour of the PCB of the new revision may not be green (it may or may not be green) - however it will have REV C (or greater) stamped on there. So ensure your module is a REV C or newer.
Good to know.

The question is, are those of us with earlier drifty versions going to get replacements?

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:44 pm

ranzee wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:22 am
This was my photo. The actual colour of the PCB of the new revision may not be green (it may or may not be green) - however it will have REV C (or greater) stamped on there. So ensure your module is a REV C or newer.
Just for infos sake:
Checked a few silk screens. My PCB's are mark with a REV, then two numbers usually reserved for ECO level. IME REV is used for PCB changes, while ECO is used for any wire adds or part changes. A functional change that Results in a custom visible spec change is almost always a new Part Number.

REV A are first spin PCB's. The expectation is always ship REV A for First Customer Ship - what ends up in any customers hands.

Point being, that they got to REV C in many of these is telling. Respins equal scrap $$$.
Last edited by SkyWriter on Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by KSS » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:03 am

True. But there's also this.

The model D minimoog was the first one general customers got their hands on.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:08 am

Q: are these 20mm sliders?

B55 uses 9mm rotaries. A little geometry shows that the sliders, are tad shorter in travel than the pots; 20mm vs 23mm. Although that's just using gross dimensions. I haven't a slider to actually measure so that may change slightly - point is they are certainly going to be no better than the rotaries.

Anyway, these small formats have show an inability to realize the same range of resistance values that the OG design utilized to meet the OG specs for logarithmic resistance elements.

Anyone measure timing envelope performance yet?
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:54 pm

KSS wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:03 am
True. But there's also this.

The model D minimoog was the first one general customers got their hands on.
Lol! I still don't know how to read this. :-)
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by KSS » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:52 am

^Behringer may not have all their revs in general circulation. Just like the minimoog revs A,B,C.
One of my new format modules is on rev18. But revs 1-17 won't be in general release. Not all revs mean the prior was bad. Can be rev'd for other reasons. A decision about a panel placement for example. Whether to include some feature or not. Whether a certain part is worth is attendant costs and-or concerns. Models A,B, and C of the mini weren't necessarily bad, they were just iterations.

Sharing the original reply -and this further explanation- to say that we shouldn't necessarily say Behringer revs are "telling" which could be taken as faulty.
Of course they *are* telling.
Something.
But unless we actually know *what* the 'something' is, we shouldn't assume 'improvement' in actual function.
Last edited by KSS on Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by Hyberus » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 am

KSS wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:52 am
^Behringer may not have all their revs in general circulation. Just like the minimoog revs A,B,C.
This, basically.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100M clone

Post by SkyWriter » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:52 am

Hyberus wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:01 am
KSS wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:52 am
^Behringer may not have all their revs in general circulation. Just like the minimoog revs A,B,C.
This, basically.
Ah, OK. Thanks folks. I thought that was the answer. But with history, it's not always what makes sense ;)
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