Behringer System 55

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

Post Reply
KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2090
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sun May 17, 2020 11:30 pm

SkyWriter wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 2:07 pm
KSS wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:14 pm
Bob himself was far more 'West coast' than generally assumed. Big fan of inputs-controllers besides keyboards too.
I bet all those guys would be euro-junkies today!
Bob was alive during Eurorack. Fewer mfrs back then, but still very much a growing thing. He didn't really embrace it. Wasn't opposed, he loved synths.
So, what's a good stain for pine for my case? :-)
Dark Walnut is the obvious choice. There's something ironically poetic about a fake moog in a fake walnut case.
Is it too gauche to post modulargrid plans?
Speaking only for one, I'd rather that happened in a separate thread if at all.

User avatar
SkyWriter
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Mon May 18, 2020 8:11 am

KSS wrote: Bob was alive during Eurorack. Fewer mfrs back then, but still very much a growing thing. He didn't really embrace it. Wasn't opposed, he loved synths.
Yeah, I didn't think it through, of course he knew eurorack.
Dark Walnut is the obvious choice. There's something ironically poetic about a fake moog in a fake walnut case.
:-) I'm bad enough with wood not to want to make a mess of it unnecessarily. I wanted to stack some cases together in a one or two frame console. It will be a stand alone analog/physical modeling system. I really got to love the software in Mutable Rings, Plaits, and Elements from the port to Korg Prologue. So much so, with the moog modular clone I figured I would put one together - small plain modules that all match each other. I know that's somewhat antithetical to the scene, but I'm OCD about somethings. This instrument will sit in my bedroom with the Prologue and Kronos. I always wanted to get back in to modular, I was a PAIA-kid, the big stuff was too expensive, and the smaller stuff just didn't seem to catch my 'fancy'?

I've seen some concerns about manufacturing defects, and a few circuit inconsistencies. It's not the best time to release a product like moog modular, in the middle of a pandemic. Many, many moving parts in a multi product offering in a new tooling-up effort - this their first eurorack effort - things alway screwup.

The defects look like process issues with rework. I would first assume to be a pick and place error (wrong tube loaded). Process issues get fixed. By the time I'm ready to buy, I don't expect issues I can't fix on my own (yeah, I have an SMT soldering station :0)). Maybe a solder stencil was wrong. I don't see anything fatal to the product.

I've gone through the system 55 wiring diagram to identify the normal routing. The oscillator, filter and VCA/EG sections all have some routing module with features addressing either the multi-controller switching for oscillators and filters, and configurations for dynamics . The trunk lines to the console panels would be good to have for bringing outside signals over robust connectors to back, then send to the front of the instrument. So, It there anything normaled in the 960, 961, and sequential switch? I would like to put all this normaling into my packaging as well. It's those types of features that make a 55 a system, rather than an assembly of modules, and that's why I focused on this, rather than a small 1/8 of the size case of quad modules that would do that stated job of mixed analog/physical modeling.

This is one of my (many) favorite (moog) pages: https://modularsynthesis.com/moog/syst ... stem55.htm
Is it too gauche to post modulargrid plans?
Speaking only for one, I'd rather that happened in a separate thread if at all.
Say no more! :0)

User avatar
mnchrme
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:32 am
Location: Countryside, Czechia
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by mnchrme » Mon May 18, 2020 12:00 pm

Could someone point me the right direction (GAS/eurocrack rehab) because these modules are serious trigger for my compulsive GAS disorder. I have no idea how good these are or might be if someone already got these shipped and tried them in person but the case itself looks like a decent quality/value for the money + VCA/VCF/gate & multiple modules are a no brainer for sure. Very neat price point & I doubt there will be major differences in quality as eurorack stuff is mostly China and cheap parts anyway.

User avatar
SkyWriter
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Mon May 18, 2020 12:45 pm

Some few folks getting early ships from thomann are posting observations on their new modules. The rest of us will watch and wait.

Ebotronix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Mon May 18, 2020 5:33 pm

I miss some moduls:
905 spring reverb
956 ribbon controller,
959 joystick controller
1125 sample and hold
1630 Bode frequency shifter
6401 Bode ring modulator
Last edited by Ebotronix on Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:35 am, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
ishi
Common Wiggler
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by ishi » Mon May 18, 2020 6:40 pm

Ceres wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:48 am
Are these modules built for the lower 1.5v audio levels like the original? Just curious if the VCAs, mixers, VCF are a good fit for modern eurorack levels.
I just added the official spec sheets with impedances and in/out voltage ranges etc. You might want to take a look at them:

http://sonectron.nl/?page_id=23

More modules on their way. 121 Dual VCF (System 100m) & 995 Attenuators (System 55).

User avatar
mnchrme
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:32 am
Location: Countryside, Czechia
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by mnchrme » Tue May 19, 2020 4:51 am

SkyWriter wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:45 pm
Some few folks getting early ships from thomann are posting observations on their new modules. The rest of us will watch and wait.
I will pull the trigger this or next week. Still got a really huge shopping list to do :foul:. Cold Mac/Mangrove (if I could find someone who would be willing to part with one, what a cool VCO) + Divkid Ochd (hopefully it won't be sold out when I order as I will be invoicing my clients later this week) + A-107 / A-113 + QPAS.

I was thinking about getting - Eurorack Go case for my leftover modules and then fill it up a little bit with 173 QUAD SIGNAL GATE/ PATCH BAY, 121 DUAL VCF, 923, 902 and 995. Will let you know how they are in comparison to other modules.

One thing to consider is that Eurorack Go offers different depth on both rows. 3000 mA on the other hand seems like enough power for a standalone space station dedicated to some extras or modulation/source/processing.

Although it might be worth a little wait before Boog gets their manufacturing process right so you don't end up with a faulty one.

User avatar
SkyWriter
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Thu May 21, 2020 8:17 am

Ebotronix wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:33 pm
I miss some moduls:
905 spring reverb
956 ribbon controller,
959 joystick controller
1125 sample and hold
1630 Bode frequency shifter
6401 Bode ring modulator
Don't forget 912 envelope follower, and 928 S+H/Glide. Those Bodes are nice too. I have them in SW on my Prologue.

User avatar
EPTC
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by EPTC » Fri May 22, 2020 2:12 pm

Noticing the resistance is starting to crumble on these things. Even Noisebug is carrying them. So I should ask: How's the filter and other modules?

I don't expect myself to get one but some gaffer tape to cover up the logo and a cardboard box and I might make a micro model 15.
SPOKEN WORD WITH ELECTRONICS, New Releases on EPTC, Spring/Summer 2020:
"This is the TRUTH!": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/this-is-the-truth
"A Portable Paul Krassner": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/paul-krassner

This week's show is on how get your work banned on Facebook, even if you don't mean it to be:


User avatar
ishi
Common Wiggler
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by ishi » Mon May 25, 2020 5:43 pm

Today the replacement 923 filters came in. I didn't have too much time to do testing. Unfortunately it didn't sound good. Problem with the HP-filter is about the same compared to the first one. Jump/wobble with the LP-filter is worse. There's not only this behaviour when initially closing the filter from full open, but also on some spots when further closing.

By accident, there's another one sent to me, so I'll get the opportunity to test a third one.

Fingers crossed, or as we use to say: "driemaal scheepsrecht?"

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2090
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Mon May 25, 2020 10:04 pm

ishi wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:43 pm
Today the replacement 923 filters came in. I didn't have too much time to do testing. Unfortunately it didn't sound good. Problem with the HP-filter is about the same compared to the first one. Jump/wobble with the LP-filter is worse. There's not only this behaviour when initially closing the filter from full open, but also on some spots when further closing.
Sounds like bad pots. Which is both good -if you SDIY- and bad -For everybody else.

Because a pot is easily switched out with a soldering iron and a little skill. At these prices, modules still can make sense even after upgrading pots.

Bad because non-DIYers can't do that. But moreso because it points to a place where the inexpensive cost is traded in potentially non-obvious ways. Chinese pots can be made to a WIDE variety of quality levels. From the same factory. This is not only true for the cheapest part producing factories, who have a wildly varying quality output across a run of parts, selling all as the same. You may get a great part, you may get a dog. Total chance depending on what part of the statistical curve output you received. The mid-level factory does it slightly differently. Same production but then end-grading for quality level and selling across different channels, prices and quality expectation.

The higher tier factories operate on a different strategy. They have better process control, and make parts with less variation. (There's always some variation in an industrial process)
But these upper tier producers will make to the level you hold them to. You can get poor to good parts from them. It's all in your contract. Which as a receiver you had better treat as something to keep an eye upon. Do this, and you get what you contract -and pay for.

Let's hope Behringer is paying for good parts from an upper tier or mid-level factory where pots are concerned.

I've written before to SDIYers about how the Chinese pots -all parts really- have been and are changing, and that they have to pay attention to what they're receiving. You are not safe by trusting a suppier or mfr alone. Part numbers can stay the same and the parts come different.

Specific to pots, the carbon track thickness, smoothness and composition can change as the factory works to increase profitability. Cheaper materials, with thinner dimensions replace wipers, Plating processes change to save time or chemical usage. These are all non-obvious to an end user in a single use setting. All you will notice is what's reported in this thread. It doesn't work right.

Or -and to the point of all this typing- it doesn't last as long as it should. Works right out of the box, but fails too soon. One can see why this could be a problem. Fortunately Behringer have been offering a three year warranty on their new synth products. But that's only a good thing if they are responsive to those seeking to use it.

There is another way pots are made less expensive, and luckily this is one you *can* see from single use. But many won't even notice it. Traditionally pot rotation is 300 degrees. Some Chinese pots -while keeping the same part number!- have only 265 degrees rotary travel. If the maker of your synth matches the graphics to the reduced rotation, you probably won't even notice. But you will have a degraded experience.
By accident, there's another one sent to me, so I'll get the opportunity to test a third one.
Please take photos of all three? If Behringer are playing loose with quality, hard documentation is the only way to fight it.

I don't know what Behringer is doing. I'm just an interested bystander with extensive experience procuring Chinese parts.

User avatar
SkyWriter
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Tue May 26, 2020 8:05 am

@kss, all true. Thank you for the analysis. Spot on! You have to really watch factory operations there. Looks like I'll have to drag out my test equipment when my parts arrive. Well... I love a good problem to solve :-)

@ishi, read your report on GS. Thank you for sharing! (Beautiful Rice?)

tubamirum
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 1:08 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by tubamirum » Tue May 26, 2020 9:38 am

ishi wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:16 pm
I built a preliminary System 55 with the first 6 available modules.

I found some problems with the 923 filters (manual LP/HP). Just before fully opening the LP, there's a sudden jump in cut-off frequency to full open. Also, there seems to be some weird wobbling/fluctuating of the sound before this jump. I noticed it first with the LP, but the HP seems to have the same problem. It also has the weird jump (and fluctuating), but at about the same knob positon as the LP, so just before almost closing (at the 10khz cutoff freq). In comparison, the Mos-Lab 923 doesn't exhibit this and smoothly opens (LP) and closes (HP). I will investigate furter, but probably will return it and try another one.

Image
I have encountered a similar situation with 923 filters. I jumped back to the video on the Behringer channel and noticed that he doesn't seem to fully open the LP filter where he would encounter that problem (0:52), but I am not 100% sure as the sweet spot is delicately hidden by a cable in this video:

I am about to send mine back as well as this is not a filter behaviour I expect. But I am new to the whole Eurorack universe, so I am not sure what to expect anyways :)

Ebotronix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Fri May 29, 2020 3:04 pm

Behringer Eurorack Go
4x Behringer 921 VC Oscillator
2x Behringer 904A VC Low Pass Filter
2x Behringer 904B VC High Pass Filter
1x Behringer CP35 Attenuators
3x Behringer CP3A-M Mixer
Behringer 962 Sequential Switch
4x Behringer 902 VCA
5x Behringer 911 Envelope Generator
Behringer 961 Interface
2x Behringer Model D
Behringer RD 8 Rhythm Disigner ( master clock)
Doepfer A 175 , R2m Ribbon Controller
Kenton Pro Solo MK 2
Make Noise X pan
Tunefih Modular:Moonson Clouds, µ Peaks
2x MXMXMX Ornament and Crime
Pythagorean Microtonal Scale number of notes: 12
notes (in cents): 0, 89.8, 203.9, 293.8, 407.8, 497.7, 611.7, 702.3, 792.2, 906.2, 996.1, 1110.2


User avatar
SkyWriter
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Fri May 29, 2020 5:05 pm

Nice @ebotronics! Thank you! Love that fret-less finger work :-)

User avatar
mnchrme
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:32 am
Location: Countryside, Czechia
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by mnchrme » Sat May 30, 2020 8:20 am

EPTC wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:12 pm
Noticing the resistance is starting to crumble on these things. Even Noisebug is carrying them. So I should ask: How's the filter and other modules?

I don't expect myself to get one but some gaffer tape to cover up the logo and a cardboard box and I might make a micro model 15.
Got some from Thomann. I have a lot of different filters in my setup + some external ones too to compare to. For the price they sound good. Both 55 and 100M clones. 3 channel mix on 100M clone is a really nice touch.

User avatar
EPTC
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by EPTC » Sat May 30, 2020 12:48 pm

mnchrme wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 8:20 am
For the price they sound good.
Thanks! - Funny phrasing there - What does that mean, for the price?
I mean I don't mind a deal but don't want that to be an audio quality.

Curious: Do they sound like moog filters or if not, how? Less musical? Thinner?
SPOKEN WORD WITH ELECTRONICS, New Releases on EPTC, Spring/Summer 2020:
"This is the TRUTH!": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/this-is-the-truth
"A Portable Paul Krassner": https://eptc.bandcamp.com/album/paul-krassner

This week's show is on how get your work banned on Facebook, even if you don't mean it to be:


KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2090
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sat May 30, 2020 1:53 pm

@EPTC I'm looking forward to ishi's report, assuming he gets the filters and grows his B55. He's got the mos-labs for A/B -or M-B comparison.

ebotronix certainly has the chops, experience and gear to tell or show more of a comparative view. Always enjoy his performances. Only this time was wishing for less effects to get a better idea for myself of the answers you-we all want to know.

User avatar
mnchrme
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:32 am
Location: Countryside, Czechia
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by mnchrme » Sat May 30, 2020 3:25 pm

EPTC wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 12:48 pm
mnchrme wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 8:20 am
For the price they sound good.
Thanks! - Funny phrasing there - What does that mean, for the price?
I mean I don't mind a deal but don't want that to be an audio quality.

Curious: Do they sound like moog filters or if not, how? Less musical? Thinner?
I am used to pay about 200-250-390-450€+ for filters so in this price range it was interesting to hear juice and distinctive character but it’s an entirely different design than those I currently use. Even compared to most of my vintage synths. Different flavor but it has its specific uses for sure.

One thing to consider is that these System 55 modules operate under different voltage standart so you are getting less headroom than with 12v ranges. This results in some interesting harmonic changes in signals when you push it over the edge.

The Moog one definitely has that flavor to it sound wise but I can’t speak for your ears as you might find it less fat than I do. It’s a slightly different design than these found in newer/more modern offerings of theirs. It’s basically vanilla Moog.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”