Behringer System 55

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
3hands
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:36 pm
Location: Ottawa Ontario

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by 3hands » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:41 pm

I’m wondering how this filter would sound in conjunction with the Jürgen Haible living VCOs
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

Ebotronix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:57 pm

I use the Toppobrillo Sport Modulator for portamento
and the Ornament and Crime for (microtonal ) diatonic quantisation
Last edited by Ebotronix on Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:58 pm

ndkent wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:24 pm
Thanks for the insight KSS.
-----------------
Ok, regarding quantitizers, the Oberheim that KSS mentions was surely digital step recording, right? And it was meant to capture to sequencer memory, right?, not say take CV in realtime and send it out realtime quantitized. Or did it have a realtime processing mode?
-----------------
Agree that string players micro adjust as they hear the pitch and that's what a pro is trained to do.
Both Oberheim and ARP quantizer are realtime. The quantizer generates a staircase of voltages, and the input is repeatedly compared with these increasing 1/12v steps until it no longer exceeds them. At that instant a switch -comparator stops the process and a sample/hold captures the stair voltage. Which is now a quantized version of the input.

String players also major-adjust in getting the finger on the correct spot to micro-adjust from in the first place! My point is that we as humans are capable of some really impressive physical feats. This is one of them IMO. But what's also shown is that it is not rare to be able to learn to do this. Leave out any arguments about truly exceptional results and there are still a HUGE number of people who can master a fretless fingerboard.

The point being that if you really wanted to, or moreso if you needed to, you could get *very* good with that 0-2v pot. The other side being that unless you are motivated by actual need, most of us will not take the time and make the effort to get that good. As synthesists, our knobs equate to the mechanical variables *every* other musician has to learn and reach some level of mastery with. If we decide to replace that reality with digital crutches, we may still make music people want to listen to, or get the enjoyment we seek in doing, but I'd argue we also lose something really important with that choice.

So while it's true that other means -like skip switches- were *also* used by these vintage masters -and those of today- it's a mistake to think that hard work and practice did not or can not be a major factor behind the results we hear and see.

Brian Eno said it best when he offered that playing a synth was easy. Playing it well was another level and took a long time. Can't remember the actual quote, but I believe this captures his point.

EDIT: Besides digital crutches -they're only 'crutches' compared to what you might do instead- there are also simple choices to put effort in a different direction. In one example, instead of focus on knob agility, one might develop complex patching. Another might choose to get really good at sampling. Choosing *where* to put effort in development is as much a part of results as the effort spent once you get there. The social-enviroment factors present for Tomita were different than for most or all today.

User avatar
jfloftin
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:29 am
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by jfloftin » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:25 pm

3hands wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:41 pm
I’m wondering how this filter would sound in conjunction with the Jürgen Haible living VCOs
Here is an example of my system with a Living VCO using the Aion 904A Moog Modular Low Pass Filter clone. I would imagine that the Behringer would sound similar. I don't have a recording with mine. I could do one if somebody is interested...

Image

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:25 pm

Since we're talking about moog modulars, we can look to members noddyspuncture and CZ Rider who both have classic moog systems and have had them for *many* years. While they do add to an update them, they also -from what i've seen in their posts over many years- keep them as a core instrument without the endless changing out of modules and locations. This allows them to develop true mastery and muscle memory and spatial awareness that en ever-changing eurorack cannot.

The point is not to bash euro rack volatility. But rather to establish that the different approach wields different results. And requires different focus and tactics to make best use of the core choices made.

These boog55 modules support both. That makes them especially exciting. They have some non-obvious effect which may lead to some new crossover between the two different paths of np and CZR vs. Eurorack changehappiness.

Ebotronix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:32 pm

entire sounds by Behringer System 55
six tracks
kick , snare, hats, bass sequence (upper vid) ,chords, lead sequence (main vid)

Bohlen-Pierce = by ornament and crime number of notes: 13
notes (in cents): 0, 92.2, 184.4, 276.6, 369.5, 461.7, 553.9, 646.1, 738.3, 830.5, 923.4, 1015.6,


User avatar
Xtheunknown
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:56 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Xtheunknown » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:45 pm

Ebotronix wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:32 pm
entire sounds by Behringer System 55
six tracks
kick , snare, hats, bass sequence (upper vid) ,chords, lead sequence (main vid)

Bohlen-Pierce = by ornament and crime number of notes: 13
notes (in cents): 0, 92.2, 184.4, 276.6, 369.5, 461.7, 553.9, 646.1, 738.3, 830.5, 923.4, 1015.6,

Are you a beta tester? Or are all the modules that you used now available at retailers?

Ebotronix
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:49 pm

I made some beta test for 4ms and Flame, not for UB , all used modules are available ...
Behringer Go Case
Behringer 914 Fixed Filterbank
4x Behringer 921 VC Oscillator
3x Behringer 904A VC Low Pass Filter
2x Behringer 904B VC High Pass Filter
1x Behringer CP35 Attenuators
2x Behringer CP3A-M Mixer
Behringer 962 Sequential Switch
3x Behringer 902 VCA
4x Behringer 911 Envelope Generator
Behringer 961 Interface
Behringer Model D for LFO

Royalston
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:14 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Royalston » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:24 am

I bought two 914 filterbanks... and took them right back. They suck! I've got a great fixed filterbank (by snd) and this is not one of them. (not sure if a real one sucks or not though)

User avatar
Muff McMuff
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 551
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:20 am
Location: CNX and MAN

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Muff McMuff » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:45 am

Royalston wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:24 am
I bought two 914 filterbanks... and took them right back. They suck! I've got a great fixed filterbank (by snd) and this is not one of them. (not sure if a real one sucks or not though)
What was so terrible about them? Thats the one module in the lineup i am interested in the most.

P.T. Banks
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:17 am
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by P.T. Banks » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:26 am

Here’s some solid drivel from a newbie modular person: I have this VCA. i needed to add another vca to my rack with almost no cash to spare, and it is the cheapest one I found that had anything interesting to me (and the cheapest one I found, at all!). And I like seeing how the vintage Moog module functioned and looked; that is fun for me. And it works great and has a linear/exponential switch and inversion and two inputs/two outputs and three cv inputs (the latter of which is pretty odd cuz it’s just three cv inputs on the same parameter, but it matches the original Moog (or maybe I just don’t know how to make that very useful and it’s not odd at all)). I’m actually surprised by the quality of the knob/etc, for the crazy-low price. And it’s sounding great with both audio and cv. That said, i’d rather have a more expensive quad vca with more features, for obvious reasons. But the price and the hp was right for me. I don’t have much room and almost got the 2hp dual vca, but I wanted something with both linear and exponential and inversion. But I mostly wanted a super cheap vca to add to my rack, because that’s what i needed. Proceed to inform me about how I will soon realize that it was a foolish purchase, but I’m good with it for the price and having a blast.

User avatar
EPTC
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1308
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by EPTC » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:10 am

Muff McMuff wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:45 am
Royalston wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:24 am
I bought two 914 filterbanks... and took them right back. They suck! I've got a great fixed filterbank (by snd) and this is not one of them. (not sure if a real one sucks or not though)
What was so terrible about them? Thats the one module in the lineup i am interested in the most.
Guarantee you the fixed filter bank lacks coil-wound inductors. That's the sound of a Moog FFB. There's no chance it could even be included at a reduced eurorack format size. You can't shrink these electroacoustic components:

Image
Weekly show: SPOKEN WORD WITH ELECTRONICS, http://www.ep.tc/spoken-word

This week's episode is on noise and fixed filter bank sound design for Eraserhead and 2001, A Space Odyssey:


User avatar
SkyWriter
Common Wiggler
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:26 am

Ebotronix wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:32 pm
entire sounds by Behringer System 55
six tracks
kick , snare, hats, bass sequence (upper vid) ,chords, lead sequence (main vid)

Bohlen-Pierce = by ornament and crime number of notes: 13
notes (in cents): 0, 92.2, 184.4, 276.6, 369.5, 461.7, 553.9, 646.1, 738.3, 830.5, 923.4, 1015.6,
Lol! That was kickass! Great sound, BP? Must try! Best part of it :-)

There was no way 914 was going to be an LC at these prices. I'm good with an RC version for sculpting. I have other special sauces at hand. Got my Go rack yesterday, bought a couple of antumbra's. Now to wait for sweeetwater to stock to arrive.

Ema41
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ema41 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:36 pm

Yep, I wasn't expecting an LC for that price too... or solid gold faceplate. But as I've already said, Behringer shouldn't have marketed it as "an authentic reproduction", even if I guess that the word "authentic" has no legal value in any country...

In fact, it's a subtle module, not very spectacular. It attenuates input signal, so it needs amplifyer next. It's not noisy, not muddy, not distorting: it's a kind of graphical filter. It can be compared to the MI Shelves sound wise (as long as you can compare graph EQ vs full parametric EQ, of course): not sexy or characterful, but useful.

A good starting point to use and learn it is to start with all the pots down (no sound at all: no filter bleed...) and rise some of them to hear harmonics singing. With a fixed frequency sawtooth as input, it can be transformed as a kind of additive oscillator after Behri 914 (of course, as it's fixed filter, it will never follow the note). In a drone, you can "play" these harmonics by introducing/ cutting them smoothly (pots are good, well spaced (much better than in D. Rossum Linnaeus, for example), good feeling).

Of course, an A/B comparison with real Moog 914 (or snd FB-14...) would help to understand precisely what we've lost or gain with RC here ('cause as an electric guitarist, I can testify that coils can sometimes be noisy too!).

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:12 pm

P.T. Banks wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:26 am
and three cv inputs (the latter of which is pretty odd cuz it’s just three cv inputs on the same parameter, but it matches the original Moog (or maybe I just don’t know how to make that very useful and it’s not odd at all)).
Not odd at all. Well, by current standards, it's oddly uncommon, but once you understand why the three make sense, you'll be glad to have it.
Proceed to inform me about how I will soon realize that it was a foolish purchase, but I’m good with it for the price and having a blast.
Quite the contrary. As Ed Harris -playing Gene Krantz- said in Apollo 13, I believe it's your finest hour.

The moog 902 is one of the best, most full-featured VCAs ever made for modular. A gold standard for what VCAs *should* be. Slightly better than a 2600 VCA due to the invert ouput and worse due to the inability to use both lin and expo at the same time. However limiting them to single input each puts the moog again in the lead. Assuming it performs as a moog would, you've made an excellent purchase. Don't give up on it.

User avatar
SkyWriter
Common Wiggler
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:26 am

KSS wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Not odd at all. Well, by current standards, it's oddly uncommon, but once you understand why the three make sense, you'll be glad to have it.

Give 'em a hint anyway :-) Bias, Envelope, and LFO. Or Constant, Single-shot, periodic for taxonomists. Or one for each of three controllers. Three is a great number. :-)

The Go case is great for the price. I don't like the looks - but it will be clothed in a 3 case stained pine cabinet in the end.

I'm fine with a regular EQ response for a 914. I used to play an old 2 channel 31 band GEQ in my first synth.

It's a filter, you got to roll with the pole!

User avatar
galanter2
Common Wiggler
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:32 pm
Location: Texas A&M University
Contact:

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by galanter2 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:00 pm

Ema41 wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:36 pm
Yep, I wasn't expecting an LC for that price too... or solid gold faceplate. But as I've already said, Behringer shouldn't have marketed it as "an authentic reproduction", even if I guess that the word "authentic" has no legal value in any country...

In fact, it's a subtle module, not very spectacular. It attenuates input signal, so it needs amplifyer next. It's not noisy, not muddy, not distorting: it's a kind of graphical filter. It can be compared to the MI Shelves sound wise (as long as you can compare graph EQ vs full parametric EQ, of course): not sexy or characterful, but useful.

A good starting point to use and learn it is to start with all the pots down (no sound at all: no filter bleed...) and rise some of them to hear harmonics singing. With a fixed frequency sawtooth as input, it can be transformed as a kind of additive oscillator after Behri 914 (of course, as it's fixed filter, it will never follow the note). In a drone, you can "play" these harmonics by introducing/ cutting them smoothly (pots are good, well spaced (much better than in D. Rossum Linnaeus, for example), good feeling).

Of course, an A/B comparison with real Moog 914 (or snd FB-14...) would help to understand precisely what we've lost or gain with RC here ('cause as an electric guitarist, I can testify that coils can sometimes be noisy too!).
I’ve noticed that in most ad copy they are careful to say it’s the input and output circuitry that is authentic. Which is perhaps to give them cover for the weak output signal?

Anyway, are your responses based on actual use of a Boog 914 or simply extrapolation from the Moog 914? Nothing wrong with either...just wondering. And noting that a Moog 914 shows what a Boog 914 might be, but it could also fall far short. An interesting experiment would be to have two side by side set ‘flat’ and an unfiltered signal as well. Even flat they should have a lumpy frequency response curve. How closely do they match though?

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:05 pm

A Boog 914 will never be what a moog 914 or 907 is. Even with FDNR's or other gyrator ciccuits, you're still a long ways from the idiosyncracies of a moog FFB.

Good to bring up the default 'flat' state of a moog FFB is not actually flat. That's a start. Anyone who thinks they're going to get true moog 914 legendary results from an analog circuit without the large inductors is going to be disappointed. Which is not the same as saying you won't be satisfied with what you get. Depends on your reference. If its a moog FFB, good luck.

Ema41
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ema41 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Yes, the B914 is here for one week. I've already used it in a couple of finished tunes...

Anyway, I did some measurements with a spectral analyser. Here are the results:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

White noise from audiocheck website (output to the rack through Motu 828mk3 ADAT/ Expert sleeper ES-3). A/B compared with a Doepfer A-134-1, full gain.

Conclusion: it's what I hear: the bands are well defined, except maybe the high pass filter which is not so selective.

If a kind wiggler can do the same with an (inductors) Moog 914... :hail:

User avatar
ishi
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by ishi » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:35 pm

In the meantime I received more modules and a decent case to give the growing System 55 a nice home (Doepfer monster). Didn't have too much time these last weeks, but this evening had some good time with the two new 923's, 914 and 904A/B.

I like the 914 very much. It has its own sound. Different from the MosLab 914 and the AJH FFB914 that I also use. The 904A & B also sound very good. I'll probably add an extra pair of them.

I've given the two new 923's a lot of playtime. I can't get used to their shortcomings, especially because the MosLab 923 sounds so smooth. I'll give them some extra time, but probably will return them. If Behringer is not going to improve them (not probable), I'll make my own 923 in the future to complete the system.

If someone wants some photo's, audio or scope images from the 923's, let me know. I'll also do photo's & comparisons for all the new modules in the near future, if time permits.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:44 pm

@ishi.
Looking forward to the updates!

Sorry to hear the new 923's didn't improve. At least they're one of the simpler modules to make.

Is it possible the pot taper is wrong? You could try a tapering resistor or two before giving up on them entirely?

Black_Materia
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 10:38 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Black_Materia » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:58 pm

Would love some audio demo's of the 914!

edit, nevermind, i've heard and read enough. not my cup of tea. I'd rather have a 4ms Multiband Resonator than this. Doesn't have that quirky analog character either, but a ton of interesting other features.
Guess it's back to saving up for a Random Source resonant eq.

betovelandia
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:47 pm

:sb:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by betovelandia on Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:07 pm

Welcome to MuffWiggler, betovelandia!

Looks like a nice start! Why the graphic? Has it let you down, or just thinking someone else will? Looks lovely.

edit: Anyone else relate their post numbers to part numbers? My last post, #2179 was about VCAs. Now here's post 2180, and not a Blackmer in sight. ;)

betovelandia
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:19 pm

Thanks mate.

I haven't played it, the oscillators are not in the market yet(here in the US at least), this is my first Eurorack synth and I'm really excited, I keep hearing comparisons with the real unit but since I've never played it or have the money to afford one I will try this as a new instrument entirely and see where it takes me, happy to share some sounds as soon as I get more modules.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”