Behringer System 55

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Royalston
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Royalston » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:48 am

Re: the 914
I bought two - hoping to use it in stereo...both returned now. When you patch the behringer 914 in, your signal is instantly effected- there is no dry setting. The effect is basically that your signal is weaker and phasey - it only subtracts from your audio - you can't add on any band. From memory the highs (or maybe the bass) are also heavily rolled off. It almost sounds like a passive effect as the audio coming out is so much lower in volume. I've never tried a real 914 but I doubt it sounds this bad. There would not be many times I want my audio to sound thinner and phasey (otherwise I'd use a phaser - then i'd get some movement too!). In contrast, something like the SND-FB14 sounds huge. There is a dry setting and you just build from there - either cutting or adding.

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guigui
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by guigui » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:06 am

Has somebody already compared the filter and oscillator with Model D's?

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DSC
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by DSC » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:08 am

Royalston wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:48 am
Re: the 914
I bought two - hoping to use it in stereo...both returned now.
This is great news! Means a lot of them will get dumped on the used market. Fire up the soldering irons for a series of DIY mods :tu:
Ready for some seriously modded SYS 55 systems?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by jjsynth » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:13 am

Royalston wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:48 am
Re: the 914
I bought two - hoping to use it in stereo...both returned now. When you patch the behringer 914 in, your signal is instantly effected- there is no dry setting. The effect is basically that your signal is weaker and phasey - it only subtracts from your audio - you can't add on any band. From memory the highs (or maybe the bass) are also heavily rolled off. It almost sounds like a passive effect as the audio coming out is so much lower in volume. I've never tried a real 914 but I doubt it sounds this bad. There would not be many times I want my audio to sound thinner and phasey (otherwise I'd use a phaser - then i'd get some movement too!). In contrast, something like the SND-FB14 sounds huge. There is a dry setting and you just build from there - either cutting or adding.
There is no dry setting in a 914 or 907. The filters only subtract from the original signal, there is no amplification. Sounds like the Behringer 914 behaves like the original.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ema41 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:51 am

jjsynth wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:13 am
There is no dry setting in a 914 or 907. The filters only subtract from the original signal, there is no amplification. Sounds like the Behringer 914 behaves like the original.
It's the reason why I've got 2 Doepfer A-134-1 in my rack... Crossfade or pan, or both... With any effect/ source: that's modular!

You can clearly see the 12 bands here:
02 B914 fully open.png
... so don't expect it to be flat response when fully open... except if bypassed by a crossfader, of course.
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SkyWriter
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:41 am

jjsynth wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:13 am
There is no dry setting in a 914 or 907. The filters only subtract from the original signal, there is no amplification. Sounds like the Behringer 914 behaves like the original.
Sounds like it's doing what it's supposed to do. Sounds good to me. These are early designs overall. You can't compare them circuits with 40 years of improvements. Back to basics.

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ishi
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by ishi » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:07 am

guigui wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:06 am
Has somebody already compared the filter and oscillator with Model D's?
In absence of the 921B's (next week?!) I'm using the osc's of two Model D's as sources for the System 55. The various combinations of Model-D's filter and 914 sound spectacular. Didn't really do a comparison, the sound was too intense to quit the artistic realm and start measuring. But it's on my list.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:13 pm

https://youtu.be/CHc5RFdl8_g

Just got the 904A and It is hard for me to make it sound musical, I would love to hear your thoughts I am comparing the filter included in the DFAM With the 904A this is iPhone camera audio I can upload better audio later, what tests would you recommend? I am tempted to return all this and call it a waste of time

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:21 pm

the 960 comes, UB posted it on FB!
Last edited by Ebotronix on Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:44 am

Ebotronix wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:21 pm
the 960 comes, UB posted it on FB!
Are you getting one? Have they priced it yet?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:44 am

KSS wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:44 am
Ebotronix wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:21 pm
the 960 comes, UB posted it on FB!
Are you getting one? Have they priced it yet?
the sequencer is now listed on the B homepage, it will not be long before it can be ordered in stores

Image
Last edited by Ebotronix on Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rex Coil 7
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:55 am

DSC wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:08 am
Royalston wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:48 am
Re: the 914
I bought two - hoping to use it in stereo...both returned now.
This is great news! Means a lot of them will get dumped on the used market. Fire up the soldering irons for a series of DIY mods :tu:
Ready for some seriously modded SYS 55 systems?
Serious! No shit, right? Excellent opportunity to do ~everwhat~ to it without worry of futzing up a nearly priceless real deal 55.

:tu:
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5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:28 am

Just picked up the filter bank , it’s great but it’s crying out for CV control. Anybody confirm ant to suggest some uses other than just eqing stuff. Never had one before.
We don't want to conquer space at all. We want to expand Earth endlessly. We don't want other worlds; we want a mirror.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:40 pm

use it to flter CV

Insert it in feedback loop(s)

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SkyWriter
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:52 pm

KSS wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:40 pm
use it to flter CV
Ooo, I like that. I would like CV's on those level controls, and envelope followers on the outputs, buy two; instant vocoder!

Hmmm digital vocoders...

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:58 pm

Three 2164 quad VCAs would make adding levels for all but the ends easy-peasy. Four would take care of those too, and leave one each for even-odd overall levels.

Edit: Does anyone have a rear view photo of the boog 914?
And a 'side' view from the bottom?
From these two photos can determinw how easily adding levels would be.

Even-Odd output control VCAs could instead be used for input drive and overall output level -with amplification. Both of these could be useful in feedback patches.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by galanter2 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:10 am

Something I did decades ago for sub-audio CV,s

CV in -> VCO sine -> 914 filter -> envelope follower -> CV out

If CV in is a sawtooth the filter bank knobs will be in sequence CV out. A weird waveshaper for slow CV waves you can modify in performance. If you just feed CV out back to CN in it will lock up in weird ways until you tweak the knobs. Etc. Or use keyboard voltage to map keyboard in arbitrary ways.

Don’t expect exact output. There will be all kinds of wiggles in the transfer function.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:21 pm

KSS wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:58 pm
Three 2164 quad VCAs would make adding levels for all but the ends easy-peasy. Four would take care of those too, and leave one each for even-odd overall levels.

Edit: Does anyone have a rear view photo of the boog 914?
And a 'side' view from the bottom?
From these two photos can determinw how easily adding levels would be.

Even-Odd output control VCAs could instead be used for input drive and overall output level -with amplification. Both of these could be useful in feedback patches.
Here you go:
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:37 pm

Any ideas of what a reliable way of testing the Boog 904A would be? I have an incoming Aion 904A coming to compare, I also have access to the filter on the Moog Sirin (not sure if A B testing with that one is a reliable comparison).

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:20 pm

betovelandia wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:21 pm
Here you go:
Thank you. That does show there is room for a 13 jack non soldering update-mod, and a 14 jack mod possible by moving one Capactor from the front of the PCB to back. Else is no soldering required mod-able! The 16 TP's strongly suggest that individual outputs are available on the PCB rear.

New wider panel with 13 or 14 added jacks and the jacks associated with the VCAs for level control in the extra width. PCB straps behind original PCB using existing screw location and M-F standoffs. Added depth about 1/2".

If anybody's *really* interested I could work up the details.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by P.T. Banks » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:24 pm

KSS wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:12 pm
P.T. Banks wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:26 am
and three cv inputs (the latter of which is pretty odd cuz it’s just three cv inputs on the same parameter, but it matches the original Moog (or maybe I just don’t know how to make that very useful and it’s not odd at all)).
Not odd at all. Well, by current standards, it's oddly uncommon, but once you understand why the three make sense, you'll be glad to have it.
Proceed to inform me about how I will soon realize that it was a foolish purchase, but I’m good with it for the price and having a blast.
Quite the contrary. As Ed Harris -playing Gene Krantz- said in Apollo 13, I believe it's your finest hour.

The moog 902 is one of the best, most full-featured VCAs ever made for modular. A gold standard for what VCAs *should* be. Slightly better than a 2600 VCA due to the invert ouput and worse due to the inability to use both lin and expo at the same time. However limiting them to single input each puts the moog again in the lead. Assuming it performs as a moog would, you've made an excellent purchase. Don't give up on it.
Thanks! Yeah; it's working great. I've tried using an envelope and an lfo as cv on it at the same time, so I'm starting to see how having three cv inputs on one parameter can be interesting. Anyway, I'm loving the 902 VCA overall.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:38 pm

betovelandia wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:37 pm
Any ideas of what a reliable way of testing the Boog 904A would be? I have an incoming Aion 904A coming to compare, I also have access to the filter on the Moog Sirin (not sure if A B testing with that one is a reliable comparison).
'pends what you're testing for? It either sounds good to you or it doesn't. That's the only thing that should really matter. Will it work in your music or your enjoyment of sound creation.

But if you're looking for a true-to-the-original-moog test, the only two people I'd trust for an informed impartial review would be MW members CZRider and Noddyspuncture AKA Tom. Because each has owned -and regularly USES, like DAILY- original early moog modulars for much of their adult lives. AND both are capable and experienced SDIY'ers. AND both are not fussy about adding useful bits to their moogs as long as the sound is right. I'm pretty sure one of them -can't remember which- has already said he's looking to re-panel some of these boog55 modules to expand his synth if the sound and function is right.

Next up I'd trust member ishi to give a fair assessment in comparison to his mos-lab moog clones. Those are very good and well-regarded re-creations of the moog legacy, and ishi's posts appear rational and unbiased.

I'm sure there are others who haven't been as public who would have valid and useful opinions. But without the context these three have given us -especially CZ and Tom!- I'd have to admit to taking whatever was said with a grain or more of salt. Seen far too much fanboy-hater and cog bias on music forums to do otherwise.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:00 pm

P.T. Banks wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:24 pm
Thanks! Yeah; it's working great. I've tried using an envelope and an lfo as cv on it at the same time, so I'm starting to see how having three cv inputs on one parameter can be interesting. Anyway, I'm loving the 902 VCA overall.
Be sure to explore the opposite polarity inputs and outputs! Feedback patching, adding-subtracting -signals AND CV. So much good ness there!

Many of the universities and colleges with old moogs made user manuals for their students for both instruction and to preserve what was a *very* expensive investment. Some of those old manuals can be found online. You'll know you've got an oldie when you see the hand drawn illustrations and olf typewriter font or the familiar blue tint of old school copies.

These student manuals cover some of the points I've brought up to a greater degree than more modern synth patching resources because many modern modules lack the nice features. Or use a different mindset.

Glad to hear you're loving your new purchase. There's a lifetime of exploration in these so-called 'simple' or 'basic' subtractive synths.

If there's anything truly lacking in old moogs, it's attenuators. Make sure you get enough of these and CP3 mixers. In the old days it was fixed using these Port-a-Pots and Move-a-Mults:
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by 1WILDTHING » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:26 am

I bought 2 x 921 VC osc but they both have the same issue: the 0 in the Frequency pot is not settled on C. Root C is about -2. I've tried to use trimmers on the back but the only working position where scaling through octaves is in tune is the original. Does anybody else experience the same problem?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by lorez22 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:25 pm

1WILDTHING wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:26 am
I bought 2 x 921 VC osc but they both have the same issue: the 0 in the Frequency pot is not settled on C. Root C is about -2. I've tried to use trimmers on the back but the only working position where scaling through octaves is in tune is the original. Does anybody else experience the same problem?
Yes same here on my 3 x 921

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