Behringer System 55

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KSS
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:41 pm

That's what a 921a is for.

edit: for 921B's. Use one of the control voltage inputs on the 921.

@1WILDTHING, lorez22
What you both may be missing is that there is no guarantee of any certain pitch from the "0" position. All that is guaranteed by calibration is that the scaling is 1v/oct and the range switch works in one volt steps.

Know this since the 70's, but just checked both the Behringer and moog 921 calibrations to be sure. Even those do not use frequencies of specific named notes. Only semitone and octave related ratios. 12th and 1/2 or doubling.

Prior to auto-tune -and still with many acoustic traditional instruments, tuning to desired pitch is needed -at least checked- at each sitting.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:04 pm

Behringer System 55 entire sounds
seven tracks

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SkyWriter
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:02 pm

Kickass groove ebo, just noticed the mp201. Nice! Love your ribbon work,
I have several utility module on the way. Nothing to listen to yet though.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by P.T. Banks » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:22 am

re: the 902 vca’s three cv inputs
SkyWriter wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:26 am
KSS wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Not odd at all. Well, by current standards, it's oddly uncommon, but once you understand why the three make sense, you'll be glad to have it.
Give 'em a hint anyway :-) Bias, Envelope, and LFO. Or Constant, Single-shot, periodic for taxonomists. Or one for each of three controllers. Three is a great number. :-)
Gracias for the hints. ;-) I don’t really know how to mess with bias in this context yet, as a modular newbie. Explain how to use bias in this 902 VCA cv context if ya want to. Thanks again, either way, and thanks for not mocking my ignorance about bias. :-)

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by P.T. Banks » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:50 am

Ebotronix wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:04 pm
Behringer System 55 entire sounds
seven tracks
Great sounds, ebo! What is that controller you’re using? (newbie here.)

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Ebotronix » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:27 am

thanks, it's an old Doepfer R2m Ribbon Controller to Ornament and Crime (Quantermain app).

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SkyWriter
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:23 am

P.T. Banks wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:22 am
re: the 902 vca’s three cv inputs
SkyWriter wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:26 am
KSS wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:12 pm
Not odd at all. Well, by current standards, it's oddly uncommon, but once you understand why the three make sense, you'll be glad to have it.
Give 'em a hint anyway :-) Bias, Envelope, and LFO. Or Constant, Single-shot, periodic for taxonomists. Or one for each of three controllers. Three is a great number. :-)
Gracias for the hints. ;-) I don’t really know how to mess with bias in this context yet, as a modular newbie. Explain how to use bias in this 902 VCA cv context if ya want to. Thanks again, either way, and thanks for not mocking my ignorance about bias. :-)
No worries there! :-)

I think of modulation in terms of three types:
1) Bias. The starting point for your modulation: attenuator, intensity control, constant voltage source.
2) Periodic motion. Where you what it to go regularly, and how it gets there: LFO's.
3) non-periodic motion. Also where you want it to go and how to get there; Envelope generators.

So for a VCA, you would use an ADSR in one input, and an LFO in another for tremolo. The Bias input would be for minimum volume (assuming the LFO doesn't' go negative.

Today, most if not all modules have trimmer controls on the inputs or outputs. Moog puts attenuators as separate functions.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:08 pm

I received my first couple of eurorack modules (whee!) a 995 and 911A (also an Antumbra Atom and Smog double whee!).
Packaging was not excessive - small box, screws, ribbon - if you need it, Bubble wrap and tape - prefer an ESD bag and NO tape, but that's fine. Build quality is good. Clearly a lot of hand work involved, but good use of surface mount and through hole. Seems to be minor solder touch-up work on mine. Serviceability is about average. We'll have to dismount some through hole to access surface mount clearances - although these particular modules aren't candidates, assembly techniques are the same.

These being the first modules I've handled, the difference in module density between Antumbra* and Behringer* is remarkable, and it's impact on operability is jaw-dropping. Luckily, for me the knobbery is mostly for programming. I don't envision 'playing' the front panel space.

*-and Mutable vs Moog, as well as design complexity.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:13 pm

Sky Writer wrote:The Bias input would be for minimum volume (assuming the LFO doesn't' go negative.
@ P.T. Banks

Bias AKA Offset can also account for the LFOs going negative.

Think of it as -part of- setting the 'active region' for the VCA.

But don't confine your thoughts about VCAs to only controlling an audio signal's amplitude. It's an adjustable voltage valve.

Set it partially open -with offset or bias- and then let the other control inputs do their thing to modify the fixed level set with bias/offset.

For example, you might want to have a periodic 'bump' in level -could be volume, but could also be any CV level. Patch an LFO into one of the control jacks. You only see an effect from the upper half of the waveform, if it's typical -/+p-p. The VCA voltage valve only responds to positive voltages. Now using a second control input, apply a voltage to set how much these positive peaks of the LFO waveform affect the result. The three control inputs are mixed, and can be used just as you would any 3 input mixer. The difference here is that these three are mixed equally to control the voltage valve's degree of fully open to completely closed. And while the VCA voltage valve ITSELF only responds to the positive voltage portions, the actual control inputs can receive negative voltages too. Because they're mixed. It's the positive part of the 3 input mix result that opens and closes the voltage valve.

For example, you might want to use a negative bias to reduct the level of something coming in from another control input. You can make the LFO waveform affect the VCA voltage valve to a small degree using only the tip tops of its cycle, all the way to letting the entire LFO cycle control the VCA voltage valve.

The first control input maybe sets the initial 'voltage valve' level. The 2nd sets the peaks -which may affect ampitude, frequency or tone color, depending on what this VCA 'voltage valve' is patched between. The peaks for a sin, tri, square, saw or ramp will all open and close the 'voltage valve' VCA in different ways.

If you think about VCAs more as variable valves controlled by voltage, you'll be ahead of the curve. It may help to think of a lawn sprinkler fed with three different hoses at the same time. Each 'hose' is one of the inputs to the sprinkler output. Imagine the sprinkler display as you control the water to it from these three sources.

In case the first bumps example made no sense, draw a triangle wave on a sheet of paper, and then draw horisontal lines across it as different levels. Since the VCA voltage valve only responds to positive voltage, whatever is above each of your horizontal lines -which represent the bias level- is what the VCA will react to and be controlled by.

Now the real kicker. Bias/offset level does not have to be fixed. Imagine that horizontal line moving up and down the triangle waveform you drew.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:32 am

As I go on building a replica of the Model 15, I found that they use reversible attenuators, there is no such functionality on the Boog modules, any idea if there’s a Eurorack alternative or workaround to make it work in the system 55?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:43 am

Hmm, my console 4A sheet references a sheet 2, which I can't find. Looks like a pre-amp.
13AF5C5E-A2E9-42E4-A120-23C60BF36D54.jpeg
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:52 pm

SkyWriter wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:43 am
Hmm, my console 4A sheet references a sheet 2, which I can't find. Looks like a pre-amp.

13AF5C5E-A2E9-42E4-A120-23C60BF36D54.jpeg
Thanks! I wonder if all it does on the negative range is to move the signal out of phase?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:06 pm

Ok, here it is. Looks like a pre-amp.
92C00C48-0F50-4ADA-A27F-E3B4F824448A.jpeg
Figure 43 interconnection. system 15. Technical service manual.
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:05 pm

Looks like a reversible attenuator to me. Fully inverted signal CCW, losing level towards 0 at mid rotation and gaining from ther to full signal at fully CW.

Lives just to the right of the CP3 mixer in a system 15. CP3 mixer has inverted outs which can accomplish some or much of what the reversible attenuator can do.Besically everything that doesn't go past zero in one move.

boog55 module 992 appears to have a reversible attenuator.

Putting a less defined historical set of boog55 modules together would be enhanced by modding the 995 and CP35 to have one or more reversible attenuators.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:20 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:05 pm
Looks like a reversible attenuator to me....
Well, now we know for sure you can read! I mean, since the words "reversible attenuator" are actually written on the far left of the diagram. Good observation!

:mrgreen: :haha: :poke:



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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:34 pm

I poke the stick at them you poke it at me. Life goes on! :party: :guinness:

Guess I shoulda included these:
Sky Writer wrote:Hmm, my console 4A sheet references a sheet 2, which I can't find. Looks like a pre-amp.
Sky Writer wrote:Ok, here it is. Looks like a pre-amp.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by SkyWriter » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:50 pm

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:05 pm
boog55 module 992 appears to have a reversible attenuator
Ah, I missed that one. Good catch!

Still looks like a pre-amp to me. ;)

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:36 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:05 pm
boog55 module 992 appears to have a reversible attenuator.
You are right about the 992, thank you sir

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:49 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:34 pm
I poke the stick at them you poke it at me. Life goes on! :party: :guinness:
... ah! ... a man with a refined sense of humor.










no.






:mrgreen:


.
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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:18 pm

Regarding System 55s CVs and interaction with other modules. Their range is -6 + 6 VDC which is accurate to the original models according to Behringer, how would we go about attenuating or amplifying CVs to this range correctly? I see the CP35 offers +6V and =6 V outputs, any ideas?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by KSS » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:35 pm

betovelandia wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:18 pm
Regarding System 55s CVs and interaction with other modules. Their range is -6 + 6 VDC which is accurate to the original models according to Behringer, how would we go about attenuating or amplifying CVs to this range correctly? I see the CP35 offers +6V and =6 V outputs, any ideas?
Not sure what you're asking. Do you mean how to do this for signals and CVs coming in from outside the B55 module universe? Or within it?

Attenuation/offset are handled in any mixer. Amplification is also there in most mixers. Patch the same voltage twice into a 902 to double its effect. source module -->Mult -->two cords from mult to two control inputs of 902.

The plus and minus 6V on the CP35 are your 'standard' offsets. There to easily be mixed with CV or Audio signals.

From outside the B55 universe something liek an MIA3X is a good way to attenuate-bias/offset.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Xtheunknown » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:17 am

Does anyone have a complete voltage map of the B55 modules? (VCO, ADSR, sequencer output levels) and (expected VCF and VCA signal and CV input levels)

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by betovelandia » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:11 pm

Xtheunknown wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:17 am
Does anyone have a complete voltage map of the B55 modules? (VCO, ADSR, sequencer output levels) and (expected VCF and VCA signal and CV input levels)
Manuals of the modules are posted on the Behringer site with their specs.

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by Andy137 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:14 am

In 911 ADSR module: is 'S-Trig In' is fully compatible with usual eurorack triggers or is it something special required converter?

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Re: Behringer System 55

Post by ndkent » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:21 am

Andy137 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:14 am
In 911 ADSR module: is 'S-Trig In' is fully compatible with usual eurorack triggers or is it something special required converter?
They want you to buy a 961 to generate the S-trig

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