FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer

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Precarious
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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Precarious » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:40 pm

Love all the new demos! Really getting me hyped to have this in my system.

Was just thinking how it would be useful if you could assign a voltage out from the macro knobs to a logic out. That way you could tie the macro controls to the rest of your rig (the module hosting the samples, FX setting, etc.) so changes happen cohesively. Like add 'Macro1 0-10v' and 'Macro1 -5to+5v' to the logic selections. Could add a lot to the performance usage as main control hub.

Also, allow for CV over the macro knobs. Use an LFO or sequencer to effect everything assigned to that macro. That would allow for repeatable sequence of changes.

This thing is really making me think and I love that. Very excited to see how this develops.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Benoist » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:14 pm

Are you planning way more "sensitive" knobs or "acceleration aware" ones for the final specs ?
As a *very* active tweaker, the amount of knobs turning I saw made me my mouth gaping / horrified face !

The knobs are far away enough from each others : less chance of accidental bumps, so a maximum of 2 turns for full range would be nice, I'am even more addicted / efficient with "acceleration sensitive" knobs ( I don't know if it's the knob's type or the code implementation ) but I guess the ( acceptable ? ) extra cost comes in line then ...

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Sweetfiltersweep » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:14 am

Some comments from my coffee break...

About the USB port:
If USB could be in the future used for midi IO functionality, together with firmware updates and eventually export/import from patterns, maybe it would be a good idea to place the USB port on the front panel. Otherwise you'd have to get behind the module for those tasks or even add an expander, wich would mean more costs and more place for an already big module.

About the patterns:
At the moment, only 16 patterns are available. Will they be cv addressable? Until now, the sounds on the demos are rhythmically fascinating, but I miss the progression in the rhythm. I can see myself using Flux for weird rhythm work, but I still miss the bigger picture. Of course, the programming work will be on the end user, I know. :-)

About step editing:
Maybe I've missed that, but I haven't read anything about the possibility of activating/muting/skipping one or several steps in a fast way. Flux offers at the moment very interesting editing possibilities, but if you have a limited number of patterns, activating or muting multiple steps at the same time can maximize the variability of the simplest 16 step pattern.
If I got right how Flux works, going for example from track 1 to another track and muting there steps 3, 7 and 13 on the fly is not possible. Muting/activating/skipping one step, then turning knobs to select another step, doing that once and once again, tha's a fully different workflow and not so fun. Flux is big enough to have 16 buttons on the front panel to activate/mute/skip steps. But I won't suggest a major redesign of the module, since it will be a great disrespect for the already fantastic work of Barry, wich brings me to the next comment:

About an expander:
An expander with 4 dedicated buttons for track select and 16 additional buttons to activate/mute every single step. Active or muted state would be shown by the color of the push button or by a led besides it. An additional button for skipping the step would make the led light in a different color. This way, selecting the track on the expander would show you the actual state of all steps in a track, while wou could keep editing paratemers on the same track or in another track with the display on Flux.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by VCOscillator » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:55 am

Hello Wigglers, sorry for the slight delays in replying, the final hardware layout is progressing well and I will share details as soon as possible! There won't be any reduction in features or IO, only additional functionality. As soon as the layout is finalised I can order test boards and focus on general firmware & UI improvements and additional V1 firmware features that can be completed and tested in time before shipping.
Ras Thavas wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:18 pm
...

It's clear the Flux can create very complex and non-quantized patterns. It seems like the key will be to have a way to arrange those patterns in series that continues to provide interest, whether that's thru slowly evolving the pattern or changing it up very so often, like the typical fill in the fourth bar. Seeing as preset memory will not be overly huge things like phase shifting the TMC can help make this happen, depending on the TMC.

At some point I would guess you might look at introducing randomness beyond humanization. One type of random I've grown to really appreciate is the "random group" that Metron uses. Instead of having a percentage possibility of initiating a gate per note, it allows you to assign a group of notes the same random seed for that action, so they all either sound or not depending on the percentage likelihood set. This is good, as you can set a fill or small embellishment in a sparse pattern and have it show up frequently or infrequently. A few random groups can really open up a groove that would otherwise be too repetitive. Another type of random action that is useful is having a setting for your random action that allows it to happen only after a certain number of bars, like the Vector Sequencer does.
...
Hi Ras, each step can be up to 64 16ths in length so you can create long sequences with subtle changes by programming 16 steps with slightly different parameters for example. You could then use CV or the macro pots to add global modulation of parameters in subtle (or not!) ways to slowly evolve patterns.

I want to add mute & solo threshold modulation matrix parameters for each output, assignable to CV or macro, so that if the pot or incoming voltage is above/below the threshold the output will be muted or solo’d. Random functionality in general is definitely worth exploring, I think that randomising all modulation matrix assignments and channel or step parameters could be interesting for explorative/generative patching too.
gummyboy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:33 am
Backed!!!
Thank you gummyboy!
Precarious wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:40 pm
...
Was just thinking how it would be useful if you could assign a voltage out from the macro knobs to a logic out. That way you could tie the macro controls to the rest of your rig (the module hosting the samples, FX setting, etc.) so changes happen cohesively. Like add 'Macro1 0-10v' and 'Macro1 -5to+5v' to the logic selections. Could add a lot to the performance usage as main control hub.

Also, allow for CV over the macro knobs. Use an LFO or sequencer to effect everything assigned to that macro. That would allow for repeatable sequence of changes.
...
Thanks Precarious, I have been working on finalising the layout and increasing the CV and Gate inputs is going to be possible but variable voltage outputs are not likely to be viable at this stage unfortunately. On the second point of CV controlling macro pots that is definitely achievable in firmware and would be a nice feature for sure!
Benoist wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:14 pm
Are you planning way more "sensitive" knobs or "acceleration aware" ones for the final specs ?
As a *very* active tweaker, the amount of knobs turning I saw made me my mouth gaping / horrified face !
Hi Benoist! If I understand your concern correctly - I was worried that the demos would give the wrong impression here - the macro pots are assigned a range in the modulation matrix screen - the range is equally distributed across the rotation of the pot. If you assign +1 to a potentiometer then it auto maps the pot to active the +1 when you rotate past 50% but if you assign +64 for example then the 64 possible additions are auto mapped evenly across the rotation of the pot and you now have 64 parameter changes mapped across the pot range etc. So don't worry - the pot's resolution is directly tied to your modulation matrix settings. The benefit of this is that you can assign many parameters to 1 pot and a single rotation can alter parameters across all 4 channels - all mapped across the pot with different scales. Apologies, I should have made this clearer in the demos!
Sweetfiltersweep wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:14 am
Some comments from my coffee break...

About the USB port:
If USB could be in the future used for midi IO functionality, together with firmware updates and eventually export/import from patterns, maybe it would be a good idea to place the USB port on the front panel. Otherwise you'd have to get behind the module for those tasks or even add an expander, wich would mean more costs and more place for an already big module.

About the patterns:
At the moment, only 16 patterns are available. Will they be cv addressable? Until now, the sounds on the demos are rhythmically fascinating, but I miss the progression in the rhythm. I can see myself using Flux for weird rhythm work, but I still miss the bigger picture. Of course, the programming work will be on the end user, I know. :-)

About step editing:
Maybe I've missed that, but I haven't read anything about the possibility of activating/muting/skipping one or several steps in a fast way. Flux offers at the moment very interesting editing possibilities, but if you have a limited number of patterns, activating or muting multiple steps at the same time can maximize the variability of the simplest 16 step pattern.
If I got right how Flux works, going for example from track 1 to another track and muting there steps 3, 7 and 13 on the fly is not possible. Muting/activating/skipping one step, then turning knobs to select another step, doing that once and once again, tha's a fully different workflow and not so fun. Flux is big enough to have 16 buttons on the front panel to activate/mute/skip steps. But I won't suggest a major redesign of the module, since it will be a great disrespect for the already fantastic work of Barry, wich brings me to the next comment:

About an expander:
An expander with 4 dedicated buttons for track select and 16 additional buttons to activate/mute every single step. Active or muted state would be shown by the color of the push button or by an led besides it. An additional button for skipping the step would make the led light in a different color. This way, selecting the track on the expander would show you the actual state of all steps in a track, while wou could keep editing paratemers on the same track or in another ttrack with the display on Flux.
Hi Sweetfiltersweep,

About the USB port: This is a fair point, I will have a look at this.

About the patterns: There are 16 steps available per channel. Each step can have a unique step length/curvature/curve/density etc and each step can be up to 64 16ths in length - in nearly all of the demos I am using short sequences with short step lengths from each channel to create looping rhythms but you can use all 16 steps if you like for long evolving sequences (and macros/cv of course too!).

About step editing: I am adding an additional number of dedicated pushbuttons to the final layout to make navigating the UI faster, I am hoping to share the final layout soon so fingers crossed the improvements will alleviate these concerns for you.

About an expander: Hopefully the final layout will solve these issues, step skipping could be nice and could be implemented with a different coloured step on the UI to indicate a skipped step.

Please feel free to get in touch or post any questions you might have here!
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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by nangu » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:24 am

This module was incredible in its original form. All the stuff you’ve added since is even more spectacular.

I’ve never seen this kind of forum-suggested ‘feature creep’ be so wholeheartedly embraced by a module designer. You are a saint. Thank you for being so awesome and bringing this beautiful thing into the world.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Precarious » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:09 pm

VCOscillator wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:55 am
Thanks Precarious, I have been working on finalising the layout and increasing the CV and Gate inputs is going to be possible but variable voltage outputs are not likely to be viable at this stage unfortunately. On the second point of CV controlling macro pots that is definitely achievable in firmware and would be a nice feature for sure!
Ah, did not know there was a technical difference for variable voltage outputs. I appreciate the consideration and explanation. And very happy CV control over macros is possible! That opens a lot of doors.

Anxiously awaiting the reveal of your additional navigation controls. :hyper:

Is there any concern some sample modules can't handle audio rate triggers? I'll have to test those I own to see using a vCO. Being unfamiliar with the limitations of digital modules I don't know if this is an actual concern or I'm worrying over nothing.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Benoist » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Sorry, I should have been more specific ...
It's the optical encoders speed that bugs me a lot : the time it took you to sweep 0 to 360° :help: ( also options for wrap arounds I hope )
Maybe adding a button that when pressed makes it X 10 time faster ?
Anyway thanks for your reactivity and openness !

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by hru » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Very nice project in a time of ruling step sequencers with few steps
will there be the possibility of a simple unquantized recording function? (such a tape-machine)

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by synonymist » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:14 pm

Benoist wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:51 pm
Sorry, I should have been more specific ...
It's the optical encoders speed that bugs me a lot : the time it took you to sweep 0 to 360° :help: ( also options for wrap arounds I hope )
Maybe adding a button that when pressed makes it X 10 time faster ?
Anyway thanks for your reactivity and openness !
Hello. I agree about the speed of entry or selection with the encoders. Xaoc Devices uses acceleration sensing in its Zadar module; but they attribute premature encoder wear to its use. Frap Tools uses modifier buttons on its USTA module, as in your suggestion.

In any case... I would like the brass thumb screws, please. :) As of a few minutes ago, I am in for one FLUX. :party:

Barry, I thank you for your innovation and efforts, and I wish you Good Luck with the FLUX project.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Funky40 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:41 am

in case that its true that sometimes many many turns on the encoder are necessary to dial in a parameter ( quasi endless-feeling turnings),
then would a additional button for x10 speed be a good idea, certainly.
+1 on this


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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Marizu » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 am

Will it be able to change patterns under CV control?

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Sweetfiltersweep » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 am

Lots of news on the Kickstarter page. The great Flux is getting better all the time. :tu:

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by VanEck » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:32 am

Sweetfiltersweep wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:06 am
Lots of news on the Kickstarter page. The great Flux is getting better all the time. :tu:
Yeah, today's update was HUGE.

I really hope we hit the next stretch goal... definitely into the thought of 4 Variable Voltage Outputs. I kept thinking how it would be cool to have that type of functionality, sort of like an onboard "Zadar", but I didn't want to be responsible for feature creep. But now that it's already been suggested, I just want to say I am all about it!
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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Sweetfiltersweep » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 pm

Yeah, today's update was HUGE.

I really hope we hit the next stretch goal... definitely into the thought of 4 Variable Voltage Outputs. I kept thinking how it would be cool to have that type of functionality, sort of like an onboard "Zadar", but I didn't want to be responsible for feature creep. But now that it's already been suggested, I just want to say I am all about it!
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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by cackland » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:13 pm

I'm tempted, but prefer to see it in the wild and am questioning if I need another sequencer of sorts.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Ras Thavas » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:52 pm

I understand that, I was at the same place initially. My decision changed as I delved a little deeper into the specs and realized that none of my sequencing modules could do the things the Flux does.

I think if your rhythmic needs are basic 4 on floor, bass drum hi-hat tick sort of thing, it's probably overkill and worth asking yourself if you need it. But for anyone interested in rhythms beyond that, there's no tool I'm aware of that does everything the Flux does, it's really a unique approach to complex rhythms.

Since I joined the Kickstarter the added program features and hardware upgrades have made the decision a lot easier. The newest stretch goals, variable voltage outputs and micro SD card, in particular look promising.
cackland wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:13 pm
I'm tempted, but prefer to see it in the wild and am questioning if I need another sequencer of sorts.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Modulus » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 pm

Anyone posted about the Flux Kickstarter over at gearslutz and lines forum? Not a member there otherwise I would. It’d be amazing if we could reach the variable voltage stretch goal. Would love to try this feature with the nord drum 2 since it maps voltage amount to velocity and other parameters.

Regardless, I’m super pumped for this module :yay:

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by pekbro » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:09 am

Modulus wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 pm
Anyone posted about the Flux Kickstarter over at gearslutz
While I did not make a formal thread about it, I did point it out via the "what did you buy thread" to (pretty much)
the main folks over at GS who might have any interest it. KVR as well...

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Modulus » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:02 am

pekbro wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:09 am
Modulus wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:28 pm
Anyone posted about the Flux Kickstarter over at gearslutz
While I did not make a formal thread about it, I did point it out via the "what did you buy thread" to (pretty much)
the main folks over at GS who might have any interest it. KVR as well...
Cheers. Hope there might be a last minute rush on backers.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Funky40 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm

please lets try to take this *very important* threshold !
and please open dedicated threads at the mentioned Forums.

I did btw. at my second place i use to surf

Sweetfiltersweep wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 pm
Yeah, today's update was HUGE.

I really hope we hit the next stretch goal... definitely into the thought of 4 Variable Voltage Outputs.
this is kind of a must have for me since it was the first time tematisized* (*edit: mentioned) here !

So i was initially under the impression that this would be only a software thing and NOT a thing of a change of the hardware concept.
The "with" or "without" ....Musical functionality would be quite a bit apart i´d say, one vs. the other.

The need to patch with S&Hs would make patching again a bigger mess, than it had to be.
I *really* hope we can get there to that stretch goal !

Or if not, maybe make a poll if people would be ok to pay a few coins more to implement these 4CV outs ( versus only beeing triggers)
I find these to be mandatory to have. YMMV




i post here a link to the GRM Delay. Please watch it ( from 00:35 ) if interested
it shows nicely how simple and how useful you can setup the Velocity control when its coupled to the triggers respectivly the whole concept.
patching with external CVs over Sample&Holds would not be the same, IMHO
( see the visualisation of the Velcoity with the triggers for example at around 1:30 )

i use btw. the GRM Delay all the time in my " VSTs realtime-play patches". mapping it as needed to controls
Last edited by Funky40 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by synonymist » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 am

Funky40 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm
please lets try to take this *very important* threshold !
and please open dedicated threads at the mentioned Forums.
I did btw. at my second place i use to surf
Sweetfiltersweep wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 pm
Yeah, today's update was HUGE.

I really hope we hit the next stretch goal... definitely into the thought of 4 Variable Voltage Outputs.

tematisized

(emphasis added)
:hmm:


;) :hug:

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by davidjames » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:48 am

Funky40 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm

Or if not, maybe make a poll if people would be ok to pay a few coins more to implement these 4CV outs ( versus only beeing triggers)
I find these to be mandatory to have. YMMV
I'd be interested to know how many more pennies I'd need to throw in to have this feature, will save a lot of patching for sure. Also for the SD card feature, seems like a great idea to be able to store and share presets.
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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Funky40 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:01 pm

davidjames wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:48 am
......... will save a lot of patching for sure.
also do i suspect, that we otherwise would have to face one day a mkII,
and we the early adopters would feel pissed...............no ?

----> i´m vocal here because i´d *really* like to avoid that situation ;)

+1, sd Card makes much sense ( i personally can live without)




in the whole it feels, like the kickstarter took off way to early.
right now, i even think it might be an idea to stop the kickstarter campaign, cancel it,
give it 3-4 weeks more, add the needed features from begin, calculate a new price,
start kickstarter again.
....in good trust and hope versus us, the supporting community.


not shure if its doable ???
not shure how pissed some not so forgiving poeple could be ?....and if they would rant thru forums and bail out ?



i personally prefer to pay a few coins more to get an mkI that is allready a mkII ;)
as sayed, i personally want to see the 4 CV outs *really* much !



synonymist wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 am
Funky40 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm

tematisized
;) :hug:
i thought ist must be wrong :lol:


but whats the real term/writing ?


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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by synonymist » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:16 pm

Funky40 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:01 pm
synonymist wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:33 am
Funky40 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm

tematisized
:?

;) :hug:
i thought ist must be wrong :lol:


but whats the real term/writing ?
Thank you for being a good sport! :)

I don't know what meaning you intended; so I don't know the English word.

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Re: FLUX - Temporal Modulation Rhythm Sequencer Launching Soon on Kickstarter

Post by Precarious » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:14 pm

I also feel the variable voltage outs and microSD are vital to pushing this module to its full potential and would be willing to kick in more to make it happen. Even if the SD card is behind the panel it will still expand functionality greatly. I don't need to swap it out. Just need it there for preset storage.

If we can't make this happen I'd be open to a small expander with those 4 DAC jacks and card slot. It's not ideal but I would jump at it. :tu:

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