Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

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seta666
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Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by seta666 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:08 am

Hello,

I do not know if it is possible but it is worth asking. I would like to know if you can fine tune the 1v/oct cv output via patch ( via a vca or something).
Eg. For playing an LFO as OSC that does not stay in tune more than an octave.

I know I can get that from 0-Coast via calibration, I have used it with the slope circuit and can be used with ext osc too.

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ggillon
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by ggillon » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:20 am

Klavis Caltrans does it automatically.

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Buttons ARE toys
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:25 am

I use Frames for this sometimes.
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seta666
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by seta666 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:24 am

Those look good , I did not know about the Calvin and with Frames how?

...but I do not own them, so...

My rack https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1112582

Anyway I could do that with the stuff I already own? Maths, Veils, Disting mk4...

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drewfx1
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by drewfx1 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 pm

If it overtracks you just need to attenuate the 1v/oct signal; if it undertracks you just need to amplify it.

The problem in practice is the amount of adjustment generally needs to be very, very slight and most attenuator modules don't offer very fine adjustment and don't offer amplification at all.

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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Arneb » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:51 pm

drewfx1 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 pm
If it overtracks you just need to attenuate the 1v/oct signal; if it undertracks you just need to amplify it.

The problem in practice is the amount of adjustment generally needs to be very, very slight and most attenuator modules don't offer very fine adjustment and don't offer amplification at all.
Can we assume imperfect tracking to be linear though? I'd have guessed that it's nonlinear and that the CalTrans' appeal is that it can deal with nonlinearities.

seta666
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by seta666 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:05 pm

I was trying using Maths channel 2 and/or 3 and it does work to some extent, 4 full octaves can be used, nearly 3 if wants to be used as an FM modulator. I guess this is the non-linearity Arneb talks about.

I can get it to work from C-1 to C3, with C0 to C2 beeing spot on. I had not success trying to get a useful range over C3 so far. I am going to try to get to work other LFOs like maths/0-Coast Slope like this and see.

If I want higher precision maybe 0-Coast calibration or Ableton CV tools can help, but for basslines and such 3 octaves are enough.

Thanks
Last edited by seta666 on Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by nostalghia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:10 pm

AJH V-Scale is another solution for 1V/Oct tracking issues. Only 4hp, relatively low cost.
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Buttons ARE toys
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:11 pm

seta666 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:24 am
Those look good , I did not know about the Calvin and with Frames how?

...but I do not own them, so...

My rack https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1112582

Anyway I could do that with the stuff I already own? Maths, Veils, Disting mk4...
I use it like a quantizer where I'll send the offsets out to various oscillators or LFO's or things that don't typically track v/oct, and manually tune them for each frame. Takes some time to set up but it's really fun to play with once you do.
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Shledge
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Shledge » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:50 pm

It's better to use a lin/exp converter for the likes of LFOs, as not only they may not have the best tracking, it may not even be linear.

Distings are the only modules I know which provide adjustable lin/exp conversion.

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drewfx1
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by drewfx1 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:24 pm

Arneb wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:51 pm
drewfx1 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 pm
If it overtracks you just need to attenuate the 1v/oct signal; if it undertracks you just need to amplify it.

The problem in practice is the amount of adjustment generally needs to be very, very slight and most attenuator modules don't offer very fine adjustment and don't offer amplification at all.
Can we assume imperfect tracking to be linear though? I'd have guessed that it's nonlinear and that the CalTrans' appeal is that it can deal with nonlinearities.
Correct. This approach only works for the linear portion of the osc. But it's a generic approach rather than a specialized tool.

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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Arneb » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:54 pm

Shledge wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:50 pm
It's better to use a lin/exp converter for the likes of LFOs, as not only they may not have the best tracking, it may not even be linear.

Distings are the only modules I know which provide adjustable lin/exp conversion.
V/oct to Hz/V converters - something like IME English Tear - are essentially lin/exp converters. I guess Disting is more universally useful though.
drewfx1 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:24 pm
Correct. This approach only works for the linear portion of the osc. But it's a generic approach rather than a specialized tool.
True, yes. It's a tradeoff. If you don't need a wide octave range or don't do that LFO-as-VCO patch thing often enough to warrant a specialized module, your approach makes more sense (EDIT: and trying to make do with what you already own first is probably a good idea on principle).

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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by seta666 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:56 pm

Shledge wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:50 pm
It's better to use a lin/exp converter for the likes of LFOs, as not only they may not have the best tracking, it may not even be linear.

Distings are the only modules I know which provide adjustable lin/exp conversion.
So, could disting be used for this. How? Can you elaborate..

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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by Arneb » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:00 pm

seta666 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:56 pm
Shledge wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:50 pm
It's better to use a lin/exp converter for the likes of LFOs, as not only they may not have the best tracking, it may not even be linear.

Distings are the only modules I know which provide adjustable lin/exp conversion.
So, could disting be used for this. How? Can you elaborate..
Algorithm A-5, with a constant offset patched into Z acting as an attenuating factor.

Edit: That is to say, you patch the Disting's output into LFO-typical "frequency"/"rate" inputs, not 1V/oct ones.

seta666
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Re: Is it possible to fine tune 1v/oct via patch?

Post by seta666 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:32 pm

Arneb wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:00 pm

Algorithm A-5, with a constant offset patched into Z acting as an attenuating factor.

Edit: That is to say, you patch the Disting's output into LFO-typical "frequency"/"rate" inputs, not 1V/oct ones.
So, 1v/Oct into disting Y linear input, Maths 2 or 3 channel output into tunning Z input, and exponential output to lfo rate

Right? Sorry for so many questions. I am kind of lost.. :mrgreen:

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