is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

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conscious
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is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by conscious » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:26 am

Hi,

i have the waldorf NW1 and wondering if i can get similar sounds by using a normal analog oscilator and a wavefolder?

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GuyaGuy
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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by GuyaGuy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:36 am

Nope. An wavetable is made of digital waveforms that loop. Many wavetable oscillators and synths let you morph between the waveforms that are in the table, for example from a fizzy sound to a hollow one.

Wavefolders take a wave form--usually a sine--and literally fold the wave shape which adds harmonic content. Originally they were analog but now there are digital ones as well. Either way it's about taking an existing wave form and distorting it. You can see and hear what's going on with them in this video.



You can probably get some similar sounds but the process of getting there is quite different. With wavetable oscillators the waveforms are pre-set and the most common way of getting the most out of them is morphing between forms--whereas with wavefolders it's modulating the wavefolder, whether with CV or audio rate signals or both.

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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by ggillon » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:42 am

The way I understand it wavefolding is a completely separate topic.

Wavetable osc allows basically to switch between different waveforms (think like square, saw, sine, or incredibly more complex) with digital interpolation to have a smooth transition between waveforms.

If you see it that way many standard osc can already do something quite similar if they have a "morph" function to change the shape of the waveforms in a smooth way (from square to sine to triangle etc).

Wavetables oscillators just go much further because instead of quite simple waveforms, it also allows to morph between extremely complex waveforms, still smoothly.

If you add to this that the morphing can be controlled by enveloppes and LFOs it can become even more complex (but that's something you can also do with basic morphing osc if they have CV for the morph parameter


Wave folding is more about taking a simple waveform and making it more complex by folding it, adding overtones in the process.


So basically they are two different, non-exclusive things, you can have a wavetable osc with any kind of waves, even folded ones.

You can probably reproduce simple wavetables (tables with basic shapes) in a basic oscillator with morph control, but for the more complex wavetables it's going to be much harder.


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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by hippo1 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 am

Apples and oranges, yes... Not trying to confuse the issue, but maybe the OP's referring to the SOUND of particular simple wavetables morphing, vs sinewaves (or such) into a CVable folder. There are definitely some similarities to the sounds that can be produced; like comparing a sound passing through a delay-based chorus to a pitch-transposed (same pitch, detuned) one: Different highways, sorta-same destination.

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ggillon
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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by ggillon » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:08 am

hippo1 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:41 am
Apples and oranges, yes... Not trying to confuse the issue, but maybe the OP's referring to the SOUND of particular simple wavetables morphing, vs sinewaves (or such) into a CVable folder. There are definitely some similarities to the sounds that can be produced; like comparing a sound passing through a delay-based chorus to a pitch-transposed (same pitch, detuned) one: Different highways, sorta-same destination.
OK then let's see it this way: wavetable oscillators is all about the dynamic of the waveforms, how they change over time.

Wavefolding, unless modulated, produces a static waveform.


So if you want to achieve something similar to this morphing taking place in a wavetable osc, what you are looking after is CV modulation of wave shaping parameters. It could be wavefolding, but it could be anything that modulates the waveform too.

I don't have a NW1 but I imagine it has tons of different wavetables with different waveforms so there's not really an easy answer to "can you replicate it ?"

It will depend on the wavetable and the waveforms and how complex they are.

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cptnal
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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by cptnal » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:34 am

ggillon wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:08 am

OK then let's see it this way: wavetable oscillators is all about the dynamic of the waveforms, how they change over time.

Wavefolding, unless modulated, produces a static waveform.
Not exactly. A wavetable's waveform will be static unless it's modulated too. In other words it'll be stuck in the same position in the table (of waveforms).

I guess if you had a wavetable with a pure sine at one end and a heavily folded sine at the other you could emulate the effect. Thing is, all wavefolders are different, and some have extra features (such as "symmetry" - offsets and such).

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Re: is an OSC and a Wavefolder the same as a Wavetable Osc?

Post by Navs » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:20 am

If you consider a wavefolder and wavetable to both be transfer functions, then yes, there is a similarity, e.g. a saw to sine transfer:

https://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/201 ... alent.html

or a saw as clock multiplier (take wavefolder's pulse output):

https://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/201 ... plier.html

Bottom line is, a wavefolder is also reading the incoming voltage, from e.g. zero to 10V, and re-mapping that voltage, just as a wavetable is driven/played by a saw. Does that make sense?

Can you get some wavetable sounds with a VCO + wavefolder? Yes. Where the wavetable approach gets interesting is morphing between tables.

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