Where are the Benjolins?

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insoul8
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Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:16 pm

Now that Epoch seems to be out of the game at least for now from what I've heard (someone please correct me if I'm mistaken), are there any other manufactures that might take the torch and keep producing them for eurorack? They seem pretty damn hard to come by at this point. I tried one based on the Kweiwen PCB but it seemed to have some issues and I wasn't crazy about the lack of normalizations. At any rate, the Epoch seemed to be the best option. Anyone know if anything else might be in the works?
Last edited by insoul8 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by jorg » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:19 pm

Show me the Benjolins!
:75:

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:21 pm

lol i almost wrote something like that.

It's All About The Benjolins...

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by didahdrieghe » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:51 pm

If you're into DIY, there's an SMD version here which seems to have fixed some of the problems the Kweiwen version had:
https://github.com/forestcaver/Benjolin

Still building mine so can't comment further on it yet though.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:56 pm

didahdrieghe wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:51 pm
If you're into DIY, there's an SMD version here which seems to have fixed some of the problems the Kweiwen version had:
https://github.com/forestcaver/Benjolin

Still building mine so can't comment further on it yet though.
Thanks for the info. Nice to hear there are improvements to the Kweiwen version. Unfortunately I'm not competent enough to do a diy build myself and don't really foresee myself taking on another hobby like that. I have enough trouble finding time to record these days.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by cliffemu » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:25 pm

I currently have a Kweiwen variant build, but I'm curious if anyone has tried one of these? Seems like a different thing but almost the same idea?
https://afterlateraudio.com/product/juggler/

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by colossus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:41 pm

cliffemu wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:25 pm
I currently have a Kweiwen variant build, but I'm curious if anyone has tried one of these? Seems like a different thing but almost the same idea?
https://afterlateraudio.com/product/juggler/
I had one. I never played a real Benjolin, but it sounded right compared to a Max/MSP emulation I had used in the past. Cheap too!

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by forestcaver » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:44 pm

On mine I havent heard any bleed on either of the ones I’ve personally built and not had any reports of problems.
I also:
- Added a gain cell on the output to boost to euro levels (rather than boosting pre-filter, which changes the sound)
- Added protection diode for the v2164 (to save the chip if a power rail goes down)
- Added diodes to ensure the two linear regulators come up ok, even if the psu has variable slew of the power-on rise
- Normalled the cv inputs from the oscillators

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:59 pm

forestcaver wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:44 pm
On mine I havent heard any bleed on either of the ones I’ve personally built and not had any reports of problems.
I also:
- Added a gain cell on the output to boost to euro levels (rather than boosting pre-filter, which changes the sound)
- Added protection diode for the v2164 (to save the chip if a power rail goes down)
- Added diodes to ensure the two linear regulators come up ok, even if the psu has variable slew of the power-on rise
- Normalled the cv inputs from the oscillators
That all sounds great. Those were my only two issues I really had with the other design and it sounds like they aren’t a problem with your build.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by brandonlogic » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:49 pm

Juggler is the best one available in eurorack.
The epoch one and the old diy one both were very sensitive to power supplies, simply didn’t work on some power supplies. The filter outputs were quit. The juggler addresses both of these issues. Has the FM normalizations of the epoch one.

It’s available here. Only $200 built.
https://reverb.com/item/21478855-juggle ... y-benjolin

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm

brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:49 pm
Juggler is the best one available in eurorack.
The epoch one and the old diy one both were very sensitive to power supplies, simply didn’t work on some power supplies. The filter outputs were quit. The juggler addresses both of these issues. Has the FM normalizations of the epoch one.

It’s available here. Only $200 built.
https://reverb.com/item/21478855-juggle ... y-benjolin
For all intents and purposes is this pretty much identical to a Benjolin? It looks that way to me but I don’t want something just inspired by the Benjolin, I want it as Rob intended it. Same Rungler circuit and such. I might have a lead on a different build but this price has my attention.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by brandonlogic » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:34 pm

insoul8 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm
brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:49 pm
Juggler is the best one available in eurorack.
The epoch one and the old diy one both were very sensitive to power supplies, simply didn’t work on some power supplies. The filter outputs were quit. The juggler addresses both of these issues. Has the FM normalizations of the epoch one.

It’s available here. Only $200 built.
https://reverb.com/item/21478855-juggle ... y-benjolin
For all intents and purposes is this pretty much identical to a Benjolin? It looks that way to me but I don’t want something just inspired by the Benjolin, I want it as Rob intended it. Same Rungler circuit and such. I might have a lead on a different build but this price has my attention.
Yes from what I understand it’s exactly the same other than the improvements I mentioned.
You can message them through Reverb, and ask if you want his official word.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by Struggle » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:22 pm

There’s a Epoch just posted in BST

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:44 pm

Struggle wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:22 pm
There’s a Epoch just posted in BST
That's very unfortunate they don't work in Doepfer cases. The seller noted that in the post. I only have Doepfer cases so I guess the Epoch is a no go for me.
Last edited by insoul8 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by trax » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:00 pm

Yep. The Epoch guy did a few runs that did not work in doepfer cases and from what I can tell they had 2017 PCB's.
You need to power cycle them a few times for them to work in Doepfer cases....but in other cases with bricks - they work fine, every time.

If you don't use Doepfer - don't even worry about it - it's not even an issue.

BTW - i have a 2014 epoch modular benjolin that works perfect in Doepfer cases.....


ben1.jpg
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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by dooj88 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:49 pm

why oh why don't these have blinkenlights

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by brandonlogic » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:19 pm

just saw this up on perfect circuit, stand alone benjolin!
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/exagonal ... jolin.html


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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by He_lium » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:02 am

Epoch Benjo Twins
2benjo.jpg
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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by forestcaver » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:09 am

brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:34 pm
insoul8 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm
brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:49 pm
Juggler is the best one available in eurorack.
The epoch one and the old diy one both were very sensitive to power supplies, simply didn’t work on some power supplies. The filter outputs were quit. The juggler addresses both of these issues. Has the FM normalizations of the epoch one.

It’s available here. Only $200 built.
https://reverb.com/item/21478855-juggle ... y-benjolin
For all intents and purposes is this pretty much identical to a Benjolin? It looks that way to me but I don’t want something just inspired by the Benjolin, I want it as Rob intended it. Same Rungler circuit and such. I might have a lead on a different build but this price has my attention.
Yes from what I understand it’s exactly the same other than the improvements I mentioned.
You can message them through Reverb, and ask if you want his official word.
Is it licenced from Rob? I guess if they are advertising it as a “Benjolin” you’d hope they would have - I cant imagine anyone just ripping off his idea and using the Benjolin name.... :eek:

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by insoul8 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:36 am

forestcaver wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:09 am
brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:34 pm
insoul8 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm
brandonlogic wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:49 pm
Juggler is the best one available in eurorack.
The epoch one and the old diy one both were very sensitive to power supplies, simply didn’t work on some power supplies. The filter outputs were quit. The juggler addresses both of these issues. Has the FM normalizations of the epoch one.

It’s available here. Only $200 built.
https://reverb.com/item/21478855-juggle ... y-benjolin
For all intents and purposes is this pretty much identical to a Benjolin? It looks that way to me but I don’t want something just inspired by the Benjolin, I want it as Rob intended it. Same Rungler circuit and such. I might have a lead on a different build but this price has my attention.
Yes from what I understand it’s exactly the same other than the improvements I mentioned.
You can message them through Reverb, and ask if you want his official word.
Is it licenced from Rob? I guess if they are advertising it as a “Benjolin” you’d hope they would have - I cant imagine anyone just ripping off his idea and using the Benjolin name.... :eek:
I just heard from Rob on the After Audio Juggler and he says they are a blatant copycat undermining his work as a designer. They have never contacted him about using the design, and undermined the license agreement with Epoch Modular by outpricing the Epoch version.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by forestcaver » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:56 am

insoul8 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:36 am
I just heard from Rob on the After Audio Juggler and he says they are a blatant copycat undermining his work as a designer. They have never contacted him about using the design, and undermined the license agreement with Epoch Modular by outpricing the Epoch version.
That’s not good at all.... very not good.... it really undermines the community and will lead to less people being happy to share their work if their views are disregarded and disrespected. Poor show.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by cliffemu » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:15 pm

forestcaver wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:56 am
insoul8 wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:36 am
I just heard from Rob on the After Audio Juggler and he says they are a blatant copycat undermining his work as a designer. They have never contacted him about using the design, and undermined the license agreement with Epoch Modular by outpricing the Epoch version.
That’s not good at all.... very not good.... it really undermines the community and will lead to less people being happy to share their work if their views are disregarded and disrespected. Poor show.
What about this one? https://www.perfectcircuit.com/exagonal ... jolin.html
I guess things are getting out of hand since there's not enough retail availability of licensed products?

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by shred » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:24 pm

trax wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:00 pm

You need to power cycle them a few times for them to work in Doepfer cases....but in other cases with bricks - they work fine, every time.

If you don't use Doepfer - don't even worry about it - it's not even an issue.
I wouldn't say that. I had a 4MS Row 40 and the Epoch version did NOT like it. Sent it back for repair numerous times and every time I was told that it was working properly. Ended up selling it.
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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by KittenVillage » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:40 pm

didahdrieghe wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:51 pm
If you're into DIY, there's an SMD version here which seems to have fixed some of the problems the Kweiwen version had:
https://github.com/forestcaver/Benjolin

Still building mine so can't comment further on it yet though.
I just got most of the smd on mine last night! (The printing on the board is so small! It made it a real challenge.)


Eurorack is an exercise in delayed desire.

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Re: Where are the Benjolins?

Post by forestcaver » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:49 pm

KittenVillage wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:40 pm
didahdrieghe wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:51 pm
If you're into DIY, there's an SMD version here which seems to have fixed some of the problems the Kweiwen version had:
https://github.com/forestcaver/Benjolin

Still building mine so can't comment further on it yet though.
I just got most of the smd on mine last night! (The printing on the board is so small! It made it a real challenge.)
I just keep eagle open on my laptop when I’m building! (For my own builds I dont usually even bother creating gerbers with part numbers :-) )

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