Best random generator for musical phrases

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Jaypee
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Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by Jaypee » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:07 am

Call me lazy hehe but sometimes I just want to focus purely on sound design aspect of my patch. I'm looking for 'something' to generate cv pitch and gate/trigger. Needs to be synced to a tempo, or a division of it, or a mix of both. So I can use the outcome in my production.

Cheapest and maybe a more 'modular approach' option would be : white noise, s&h, attenuverter, quantizer and a couple of Euclidean rhytmn mixed together with probability engaged.

What is your approach?

Anyone 'works' like this? I.e. recording everything and wait for happy accidents happen?

Looking forward to read you!

Cheers,
J.
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lisa
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by lisa » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:23 am

I eurorack TINRS Thuesday and Mutable Instruments Marbles are two obvious solutions. I prefer to just loop a random CV output from Pamela’s New Workout, though.
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wavecircle
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by wavecircle » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:13 am

Noisering through a quantizer. 😀

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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by megarat » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:15 am

Happy accidents are fun, and noodling with random voltages is part of my workflow, but I tend to be more deliberate and structured, and use random sources only for small tonal motifs/flourishes. For this I rely heavily on a Turing Machine with the Volts/Pulses expanders.

That said, I use random sources heavily for CV modulation, typically with Pam's, a Batumi with expert firmware, or a Tête/Tetrapad combo.
Last edited by megarat on Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Agawell
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by Agawell » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:25 am

I have Marbles - works for me

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Multi Grooves
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by Multi Grooves » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:27 am

Aside from euclidean generators I'd also add Iron Ether Pithoprakta. Ive not tried it but you op made me think: theres a cv out of some sort. You could that through a quantizer...the rest is left to your imagination...
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Brad s
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by Brad s » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:32 am

The Frap Tools Sapel could be worth looking at. Here's a fantastic overview from one of the best!

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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by starthief » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:34 am

Marbles, plus Teletype to do fun algorithmic rhythms/CVs either to feed Marbles or process it.

Omsonic Stochastic Inspiration Generator seems really cool too.
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mdoudoroff
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:38 am

I prefer to use a “simple” analog-style sequencer attached to a very powerful quantizer. My thinking:

“Real random” means something that is constantly changing unpredictably, but all I want is a “random” melodic gesture to work with. I don’t need to rely on a random module to get that. It’s just 4-16 random values, and I can do that easily myself just by twisting knobs/flicking sliders on a simple sequencer, randomly by hand. Moreover, with a sequencer, I can easily tweak/reshape my gesture later, if I like. The quantizer makes sure I remain in whatever context (scale) I want, and it also allows me to alter that context later, if I want.

I have had the Noisering, I have had both versions of the Turing Machine (built my own v2 and still have it), and my conclusion is that these methods are too rudimentary for satisfactory melody-generation. It can be quite tedious to wait for them to generate something you like, error-prone to lock it in, and once it’s there, the risk/reward of introducing new randomness is dicey at best. I feel these work better as semi-unpredictable non-pitch modulation sources.

Musical phrasing is a separate-but-related problem, and I think the more challenging.

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bemushroomed
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by bemushroomed » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:12 am

I like Marbles because you can go from completely random/chaos to controlled random - connect your sequence, get a closely related sequence which you can change in numerous ways.

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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by 22tape » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 am


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luketeaford
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by luketeaford » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:23 pm

Jaypee wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:07 am
Cheapest and maybe a more 'modular approach' option would be : white noise, s&h, attenuverter, quantizer and a couple of Euclidean rhytmn mixed together with probability engaged.

What is your approach?
I am more like mdoudoroff in style and think patching it is better. If you're not aware let's say you have a sequencer playing 8 steps in ascending sequence-- patch THAT into a S&H and clock it at a different unsynchronized rate than the sequencer is running. Presto. Changing the relative clocks creates different sequences from that.

Similarly any gate source patched into a clocked S&H will "sync" it up to divisions of the master clock. So if you are sampling an unsynchronized square wave LFO at 16th notes, you will potentially get hits on each 16th note or not.

That's a long way to say that maybe white noise, attenuvertor, quantizer, euclidean rhythm generators aren't needed if you have S&H and some simple utilities. It's a way to add a touch of determinism to a "random" sequence.

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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by dvdmllr » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:31 pm

I have unracked my Marbles recently in favor of using the Mimetic Digitalis whenever I want repeatable random. The Mimetic run through a Quantizer like the Intellijel Scales gives you even more options and ways to change up your sequence.

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inoshi
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by inoshi » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:04 pm

SSF ultra-random

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chachi
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by chachi » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:23 pm

wavecircle wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:13 am
Noisering through a quantizer. 😀

:wiard: :wiard: :wiard: :wiard:
+1

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brandonlogic
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by brandonlogic » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:38 pm

Marbles and ornament and crime.

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LDT
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by LDT » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:09 pm

I like to play with my two marbles.
(That does sound a bit, um, never mind.)
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versipellis
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by versipellis » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:07 pm

I challenge the notion that "random" == "musical". I've pretty tried most of the more well-known random and pseudorandom generators, including Tuesday, o_C/Hemisphere ASRs, Turing Machine, Marbles, Mimetic Digitalis, Bloom, to name a few. None of them really come close to "immediately musical", rather, are more like random bleeps and bloops. Yes, even when quantized.

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brandonlogic
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by brandonlogic » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:02 pm

versipellis wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:07 pm
I challenge the notion that "random" == "musical". I've pretty tried most of the more well-known random and pseudorandom generators, including Tuesday, o_C/Hemisphere ASRs, Turing Machine, Marbles, Mimetic Digitalis, Bloom, to name a few. None of them really come close to "immediately musical", rather, are more like random bleeps and bloops. Yes, even when quantized.

random might not be for everyone, might just not be your style.
but i dont see how you can say it cant be musical. for example, at the most basic level - 4 looping randomly generated quantized notes in one or two octaves in a four step sequence, how could it possibly NOT be musical?
the nature of randomly generated material might just not led itself well to the kind of music that you make, but that doesn't mean it cant be "musical" in general.
Last edited by brandonlogic on Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by 22tape » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:15 pm

An arp with random patterns and gate lengths are always handy.

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andrewF
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by andrewF » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:50 am

Just throwing this here =
Cellular Automata - this is an analog CA circuit producing 16 gates and three CV signals. It is not random but is very hard to predict what is going to happen, especially when you inject seed signals into the process.
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FatKingTubby
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by FatKingTubby » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:06 am

"Best" can have so many interpretations in the context of creating melodies with random source modules. For me at this moment though, I'm having quite a bit of fun with Addac's 215 Dual Sample & Hold. After using the SSF URA for so long in so many different CV scenarios (making random melodies with many different types of quantizers of course being one) the small differences that are available with the 215 are very refreshing. A main gripe I've always had with the URA is that the Sample A circuit can't be clocked externally, which in many cases makes it completely useless to me unless I'm using the URA as the master clock for the patch. But with the 215, both s/h circuits have external clock inputs and there are convenient normalizations between the two as well. Each circuit has the ability to be switched to a track & hold, and they also both have slews. Perhaps the 'best' aspect of the module however are its additional outputs, which simply offer the sum, average, and difference of outputs A & B. Sending any combination of the 5 outs to one or more quantizers, or sequential switches makes for a lot of wild variations in creating useful pitch CV.

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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by Jd1979 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:52 am

I use the Wiard 300 wogglebug as it has stepped and smooth random and tempo controls etc...

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tokidoki
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by tokidoki » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:40 am

In the modular world melody is a wide spectrum word. Melody is the high-flying bird over a solid moving base, according to my vision. A bliss. I like the formula musical phrases for my state of work, it's a good beginning, simple and clearer. Lots of musical phrases in this experience with SHs, LFOs, clock dividers, probalistic gates choppers, quantizers, sequencers, switchers and others I don't remember, it was last summer. For me these are not melodies, but I tried to hunt one, or two. Lots of randomness, yes. I still try to find a way to have the modular playing by itself along bases composed on an external hardware sequencer. Like a musician improvising melodies on given themes. So is this experience a little step to this goal. The sounds are from an external expander, but every note is coming from the modular.
My english is not perfect, I'm from Outland.


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