Best random generator for musical phrases

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sir stony
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by sir stony » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:19 am

I'm with versipellis on this matter, at least in a general view. True random means unpredictable, this was said before. But to get a musical result from that, most of us would use all sorts of regulatory instances. This simply isn't random anymore. It may still be chaotic, but we usually try to reign in the amount of unpredictability into something that will -at least to a certain degree- stick to the rules that our concept of musicality is based on.

My own best results that might carelessly be called random, I got from using the steps of a sequencer and set them to notes that I like to use, and that are related in a musical context. Notes I like to appear more often to give it a musical preference, a base to build the harmonies on, I program more than once. Then I need a way to randomly select the played sequencer steps. Easiest approach here is a cartesian sequencer like Rene or Mimetic Digitalis, powered by a random source and a clock related to the musical background. Linear sequencers may also work, but it is much more hassle to get those to play individual steps (high rate clocking and a s/h that will pick out individual notes from that...)
The played notes may additionally be transposed or shifted into a different scale, which again may or may not be triggered by a rare random source. Basically this is a rather advanced "random" arpeggiator approach as we know from many keyboards/boxed synths.

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cptnal
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by cptnal » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am

A couple of unsynced LFOs into a mixer and into a quantizer. Reset one or both LFOs with divisions of the master clock for repeatable phrases.

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cptnal
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by cptnal » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am

cptnal wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am
A couple of unsynced LFOs into a mixer and into a quantizer. Reset one or both LFOs with divisions of the master clock for repeatable phrases.
Edit: +1 for the ADDAC215 :sb:

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windchill
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by windchill » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:30 am

cptnal wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am
A couple of unsynced LFOs into a mixer and into a quantizer. Reset one or both LFOs with divisions of the master clock for repeatable phrases.
This!
Loads of potential for building on it too: one LFO modulating another, running multiple LFOs into a mixer or min/max, running an LFO through a wavefolder, mixing multiple square wave LFOs to create stepped patterns, etc.

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a773
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by a773 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:10 am

I don't think you'll be able to find a module that "had though of everything"...

One crucial elemeny of "musical" that doesn't seem to get much attention (or I'm not listening) is phrasing. Even the most annoying, random stream of notes will become much more musical if grouped in phrases (like in "sometimes playing, sometimes not"), the most basic reference to phrasing is breathing (or lightly more irregular; speaking). There's alot of magic hidden in how phrases are evolving, short, long, irregular, how they are placed in relation to the meter (esp the "one").

Technically an and logic (vca will do) for you trigger/gates stream open/closed by something irregular, like a modulated lfo, pnw in a pinch, sloth, trigger riot, stuff like that.

Musically: inspiration can be found a lot of places, presidential speaches, solos by great jazz musicians (try Miles and Bill Evans for a start).

Nb: the teletype is amazing for this kind of control...

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FatKingTubby
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by FatKingTubby » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:27 pm

I just remembered that a few months ago I had a patch set up that used the 2hp Arp to get some great random but predictable bass lines. When I figured it out I was really surprised to be getting such a cool result from a seemingly unlikely source. I had the Arp Mode set to 2 octave random, and I think I was using a minor 7th chord, but nearly any chord setting should work well. I had the root note being sequenced to follow the chord changes I was using (I think voltage block was doing this) and the trigger pattern I was using was also pretty simple. The main trick though was that I was sending it a reset trigger on beat 1 of every 2 or 4 bars. This way I knew that the bass voice would always land on the root note at a rhythmically important time, and the rest of the bass line would be hopping around the 3rd, 5th, or 7th in randomly cool ways.

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pugix
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by pugix » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:36 am

I found the CGS Infinite Melody to be capable of making musical note progressions in the 1/f mode. Only for DIY, though. PC board and BOM is available at Modular Addict.

https://modularaddict.com/manufacturer/ ... -cgs32-pcb

Mine is built in a 5U MOTM panel.

https://pugix.com/synth/catgirl-synth-infinite-melody/
Richard
http://www.pugix.com

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soggybag
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by soggybag » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am

Ornament and Crime has so many random options and most are quantized. It’s like four quantized Turing machines, or Euclidean, integer sequences, or byte beat, and there’s the sequencer when you’re not feeling so random. There’s a few modes that generate random chord sequences. There’s too many options, though you have to work through a menu to get to them.

Besides quantization it has scale masking to remove those inappropriate notes. This can be really important

It’s very flexible. With two there’s, dare I say twice the options, you can quantize with one and generate, sequences, random voltages, byte beats, envelopes, and LFOs with the other.

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Boodaleechees
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by Boodaleechees » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:38 am

What about the venerable Doepfer A-149-1?

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akrenaut
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by akrenaut » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:11 pm

o_C running 4x Turing machines and an A-151.
Randomize the randomization.

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soggybag
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by soggybag » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:37 pm

I’m a fan of Byte Beats. Usually audio rate glitchy 8 bit sounds they make good semi random CV sources. Two o_C is a randomized and quantizing force. You could get two at 8hp and have quantizing randomizing computer in 16hp.

Tinrs Tuesday is pretty neat but might sound a little too musical if you’re looking for random.

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theB94
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by theB94 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:40 pm

2 or more clep diaz

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Paranormal Patroler
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:22 am

theB94 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:40 pm
2 or more clep diaz
How so?
All rights reserved; all wrongs reversed.

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Jumbuktu
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by Jumbuktu » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:34 am

I think repetition is the key here - and then variation.

Even a totally random 16 step pattern becomes musical once you hear it repeated 2 or 3 times - and then it starts to get monotonous. Bach's fugues are good examples of how to take a seeemingly arbitrary phrase and develop it in interesting ways.

Since I got my Five12 Vector, I get a lot out of using the random generators to create a basic pattern and then applying Evo and Chance operations to generate variations. It's also possible to use inversions and offsets in a similar way to Bach's canonical techniques.

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Foghorn
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by Foghorn » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:32 am

I have been enjoying patching several modules to make a simple "automatic song".
In one rack I have a TINRS Tuesday with a VPME T43 adder next to it.
Then I take these little 4 note sequencers from Ladik S-141 and S-142 and add them together with the T43.
Using a Doepfer divider I clock the sequencers much slower than Tuesday and use them to make transposition happen.
For timing and making a beat that is not just a constant clock, MI Grids usually works well to trigger this and that.
Grids ain't just for drums anymore, clock it slower.
I like having at least one burst generator somewhere that gets triggered every now and then.
I have been also having fun with a Clep diaz staircase generator and 2 hp ARP to mix up timing and add little trills
Every now and then happens good by using switchs, Doepfer A-151 or something triggered from way down on a divider chain.
Then just let it run, or I have been switching things in and out with Mallekko mute 4
I'm not sure what's going on, but, well ah crap..what now?
.......Not really a musician.......

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PhineasFreak
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by PhineasFreak » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:28 am

unsatisfied by marbles i'm switchin over to a Qu-bit bloom...
https://thomaswulfe.bandcamp.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/ylem-records/
http://www.soundcloud.com/best-of-ylem/
http://www.soundcloud.com/waxcide/
http://thomaswulfe.muffwiggler.com/
http://ljunggrenaudio.com/
http://waxcide.bandcamp.com/
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mattsb
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by mattsb » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:38 am

This doesn't exist yet, but looks promising

https://omsonic.co.uk/product/stochasti ... sequencer/
'We're not sending astronauts to the moon and back! We're making funny sounds. Let's keep things in perspective here." Dr E&S

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brandonlogic
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by brandonlogic » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:20 pm

mattsb wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:38 am
This doesn't exist yet, but looks promising

https://omsonic.co.uk/product/stochasti ... sequencer/
YES! This! There an expander too for more channels of sequences.

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adnauseam
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Re: Best randon generator for musical phrases

Post by adnauseam » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:16 pm

cptnal wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:45 am
A couple of unsynced LFOs into a mixer and into a quantizer. Reset one or both LFOs with divisions of the master clock for repeatable phrases.
This is easily my favorite method. I'm almost obsessed with it! I really like the LFOs in MI Peak's expert / dual mode. You get wave shaping and phase offset for each waveform. You can get some fun melodies if you're resetting and playing with the phase.

On top of that, bring in some sort of rhythmic pattern generator like a uStep, Zularic Repetitor, a Launch Codes or what have you. Sync those with the reset clock of your LFOs for some ace patterns.

If you have any advanced lfos: they produce great melodies too! I love feeding my e350 or other exotic wavetable OSC/LFOs into the melody maker.

I find a quantizer with scale editing abilities to be a must as well. Ornament and Crime has come cool options in the quartermain app. Enabling and disabling notes makes some nice variations. Better yet, try the hemisphere quantizer - it has a gate out that fires on note change like the old doepfer a-156.

I'm still experimenting with this patch years and years after finding it.
-adnauseam






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franman69
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by franman69 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Being a self professed Turing Machine addict, I use two fully expanded TM Mk II as well as two O_C typically on Quartermain for quantizing and/or producing more TM outputs. I also like adding an unsynced LFO to the mix with at least one of these paths to keep things interesting. O_C is truly a deep source of modulatable random CV's. Put Euclidean Circles in control of triggers for a couple of paths and you've got what I like to call "Turclidean" fun for years..

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theB94
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by theB94 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:22 am
theB94 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:40 pm
2 or more clep diaz
How so?
Both in random cv mode, one controlling the cv of the other. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

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dbeats
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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by dbeats » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:58 am

I often find myself triggering gates for notes with modules that are primarily meant to trigger drum voices. Like A-157 or Metron with some randomness, Knight's Gallop, Euclidean Circles. I love Marbles, but the right "X" section of the module much more than the left "t" section, if you know what I mean.

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Re: Best random generator for musical phrases

Post by pievo » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:48 am

Wogglebug with uScale!

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