LFO \ ADSR

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rossdedo
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LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:49 am

Hi!
- Erica Synths Black Dual EG\LFO,
- Doepfer A-143-3 Quad LFO,
- MFB LFO+ADSR,
- Make Noise Function or Contour,
which one do you choose?
I know probably nothing of them and there are Batumi, ecc. but my choice will be in that range of price. Not important to me the top quality or the best things, because i'm a very newbie and i want just start to learn playing... Hope in your precious advices.
Thank you very much. :tu:
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by abelovesfun » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:16 pm

The ai synthesis AI003 is also in that price range or cheaper. https://aisynthesis.com/product/looping ... r-diy-kit/

Also available as built and tested with warranty.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by Jd1979 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:20 pm

Another option you may want to consider this a a utility panel such as the maths or random source serge dusg. These have slope control over the rise and fall and can be used as envelope generators or lfo. It really depends on what functions you are using them for. Hope this helps

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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by muleskinner » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:39 pm

Also do you really need ADSR or will AR/ASR do? I'm pretty sure you can't do ADSR with a Function alone, many of these modules like Maths and the Quadra create an ADSR from an AR + ASR.

Personally I really like Maths if you have the budget. It does a lot in a beginner setup and the envelopes are nice and snappy.

Also worth a look if you don't have the budget/space for Maths is the Joranalogue Contour 1.

The Function also has sample and hold which comes in really useful.
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rossdedo
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:25 pm

Thank you very much. :tu:
All they're very useful suggestions for me. Actually I have Maths, STO, Doepfer A-135-2 and Monsoon (Mutable Clouds clone) in a small Rackbrute 3U up till now. I want adding 3 modules: a second (digital) VCO, LFO, envelope or filter. My goal is dark/drone/atmos sounds using external effects via analog mixer (with the other gears i have).
Last edited by rossdedo on Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by sparood » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:37 pm

Don't forget the WMD/SSF ADSRVCA, very neat more traditional (looping) AD/ADR/ADSR + VCO module in a small 6HP package, I really liked it!

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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by muleskinner » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:52 pm

rossdedo wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:25 pm
Thank you very much. :tu:
All they're very useful suggestions for me. Actually I have Maths, STO, Doepfer A-135-2 and Monsoon (Mutable Clouds clone) in a small Rackbrute 3U up till now. I want adding 3 modules: a second (digital) VCO, LFO, envelope or filter. My goal is dark/drone/atmos sounds using external effects via analog mixer (with the other gears i have).
What about Ornament and Crime? Piques is an awesome LFO/envelope app if you don't mind a little menu diving (the menu structure is actually pretty flat - I find it much easier to use than Batumi and way more flexible). And you get so much more besides...
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rossdedo
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:21 pm

muleskinner wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:52 pm
rossdedo wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:25 pm
Thank you very much. :tu:
All they're very useful suggestions for me.....
What about Ornament and Crime? ... And you get so much more besides...
Thanks! O&C is a good option too, very multipurpose gear. Please, does the Erica Synths Dual EG/LFO (or Make Noise Function) not as good option with Maths to modulate 2 VCOs? Thanks in advance (and sorry for my bad english).

ps: this is my rig up till now: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1142205
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by muleskinner » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:00 am

Haven't used the Erica Synths one but it is 2xAD or 1xADSR so if you really need 2xADSR neither it, nor Function will be up to the job.

It looks like a very nice module though.

In terms of that vs the Function you get 2xAD/LFO with the Erica and only one with the Function but the Function also gives sample and hold and the ability to CV control attack/release (I think it's really important to have at least some envelopes where you can do that).

One O_C will give you 4xADSR/LFO with a ton of other options. I've only really used mine for slower envelopes so I can't really comment as to how 'snappy' the envelopes are compared to Maths/Function. Almost every aspect can be CV controlled (limited to the 4 inputs of course).

If you don't mind sacrificing the 'one knob per function' aspect of a dedicated module I think an O_C would be a great addition to your setup.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:27 am

muleskinner wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:00 am
Haven't used the Erica Synths one... ...I think an O_C would be a great addition to your setup.
Well, i will seriously consider your useful suggestions and probably i'll go in the O_C direction, not problem for me, I saw some videos about it and it's very interesting and useful, i didn't know it had 4xADSR/LFO capabilities (with all the rest), this is a big value. Always thanks.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:32 am

Please, excuse me for my inexperience, are there VCO+LFO modules? I mean a module with VCO and LFO functions both to itself. Maybe could be these ones?
SynthTech E350, Livewire Dalek and Vulcan Modulator, Reckless Drone Squad, Malekko Richter Oscillator II and Anti-Oscillator, Intellijel Dixie II+, Doepfer A-110 and A-111 series? I found these ones searching for them to modulargrid...
Thanks one more time. :tu:
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Whelm
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by Whelm » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:21 pm

rossdedo wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:32 am
Please, excuse me for my inexperience, are there VCO+LFO modules? I mean a module with VCO and LFO functions both to itself. Maybe could be these ones?
SynthTech E350, Livewire Dalek and Vulcan Modulator, Reckless Drone Squad, Malekko Richter Oscillator II and Anti-Oscillator, Intellijel Dixie II+, Doepfer A-110 and A-111 series? I found these ones searching for them to modulargrid...
Thanks one more time. :tu:
Yes, there are many oscillators that can do high and low frequency. Many if not most VCOs can go low frequency. One thing to consider though is how slow you want LFOs. If you're into drones, you might want real slow LFOs. I've been looking at the Zlob Dual VCO, which is two oscs in 4hp, seems awesome. The downside is that they only get down to 5 second cycles.

The Nonlinear Circuits Dual VCO/LFO, on the other hand, can get as low as 20 minutes cycles (!!), but what you give up is accurate tracking over octaves, and it's 8HP. Much better at being an LFO than the Zlob, but the Zlob is better at being a VCO and takes up half as much space. I was very excited to find out about this one since I'm looking specifically for slow oscillators that can go into audio range that have sync and I don't care so much about tracking so this thing is perfect for me. The step output is a lovely bonus.

Barton Musical Circuits also offers a 2xLFO/VCO plus a sample & hold, the the 2LFOSH. Great if you want a S&H, but limited in that there is no CV over the oscillators.

So as always it really depends on your needs. How much space do you have to spare, do you care more about the LFO or the VCO function, how much CV control do you want, how important is pitch tracking, etc. The first thing is to consider whether you are primary looking for an LFO or a VCO, or if you want something that is equally good at both.

The Dixie is equally good at both. I have two Dixie II+s that were two of the first modules I bought. They are great, super flexible. A whole shitload of waveform outputs, exponential and linear FM, two FM inputs, PWM, sync. They do pretty much everything an oscillator can do except for through-zero and they do it in 8HP. They are great. Then I got Fonitronik's Thomas Henry 4046 oscillator, which has very similar features but at twice the HP. And that fucking thing blows the Dixies out of the water in my opinion. So that's another big thing to consider is the sound. Oscillators sound different.

So that's my typical non-answer answer but hopefully that's helpful.

Just a warning about O&C: that thing is all kinds of powerful but the menu is an absolute bitch to deal with, so be sure you're comfortable with that before going that route. I personally find those kinds of interfaces to be joy-killing, but that's just me. I have a 5U mentality stuck in a Eurorack body.

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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:07 am

Whelm wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:21 pm
rossdedo wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:32 am
Please, excuse me for my inexperience, are there VCO+LFO modules? I mean a module with VCO and LFO functions both to itself. Maybe could be these ones?
SynthTech E350, Livewire Dalek and Vulcan Modulator, Reckless Drone Squad, Malekko Richter Oscillator II and Anti-Oscillator, Intellijel Dixie II+, Doepfer A-110 and A-111 series? I found these ones searching for them to modulargrid...
Thanks one more time. :tu:
Yes, there are many oscillators that can do high and low frequency...but that's just me. I have a 5U mentality stuck in a Eurorack body.
Thank You very much first of all. :tu:
(Sorry for my bad english) I appreciate your detailed answer, very useful for me because i didn't know the module you have indicated. Anyway, this is my actual rack:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1142205

My sound purposes are dark\drone oriented, using that small modular rack with other tools i have (microbrute, echo\multi fx stompboxes) and I would like to have (i'm considering various options). About the modular rack, approximately i think to purchase another VCO and a LFO module (O_C it could be not a problem for me the display settings), which is important its slow frequency cycle... The free space on the rack is 25 hp and my budget is not illimitate, unfortunately for me.
Thanks more!
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by muleskinner » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:13 am

Whelm wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:21 pm
Just a warning about O&C: that thing is all kinds of powerful but the menu is an absolute bitch to deal with, so be sure you're comfortable with that before going that route.
I find it fine. I wasn't sure if I would tbh but the menu structure is pretty flat once you're in an app. It is undoubtedly a bit fiddly compared to 'one knob per function' modules though.

What I struggle with is modules with secondary modes/functions on things that aren't clearly labelled and leave you with knobs in a different position from their actual setting. I found Batumi horrible for this and I'm also struggling a bit with Streams/Plaits for the same reason. I 'bonded' with the O_C far more quickly.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by Whelm » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:49 am

muleskinner wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:13 am
Whelm wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:21 pm
Just a warning about O&C: that thing is all kinds of powerful but the menu is an absolute bitch to deal with, so be sure you're comfortable with that before going that route.
I find it fine. I wasn't sure if I would tbh but the menu structure is pretty flat once you're in an app. It is undoubtedly a bit fiddly compared to 'one knob per function' modules though.

What I struggle with is modules with secondary modes/functions on things that aren't clearly labelled and leave you with knobs in a different position from their actual setting. I found Batumi horrible for this and I'm also struggling a bit with Streams/Plaits for the same reason. I 'bonded' with the O_C far more quickly.
Yeah fair, I think O_C is definitely better than some when it comes to UI but I personally just really don't jell with those little clicker menus. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just a preference thing. Similarly I can't stand Make Noise panels. Not shitting on either O_C or Make Noise. I built an O_C and found the menu to be such a turnoff I basically never used it.

I think that's why with these 'what do I do' threads generally the best answer is to give people a sense of what factors there are to consider so that people can make a decision based on their own preferences.

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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:00 am

Thanks!
I'm going a bit off topic about O&C... About dark\drone sound capabilities, i'm reading that it's important the slow cycle by LFO... What LFO module you're considering good for this purpose (in a more accessible range of price)? Some persons indicate the Synth Tech E355 Dual Morphing and i have seen a musician on YT he creates deep drones just using the E355 with reverb\delay boxes only... I know it's "dual" and the O_C are "quad" LFO but i presume it's fundamental how the module "plays"... Also, a friend of mine suggests me the Livewire Vulcan Modulator or the Erica Synths Octasource (this last one i play it with VCV Rack and it seems to me a bit noiseful as sound...).

@Whelm: please, excuse me, my intention is not asking to somebody "what do i do" but "what do you think about...?". Anyway I totally agree with you about everybody does the final decision based to own needs. For sure my english is very terrible and i'm not explain well. Please, be patience. Thanks :tu:
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by muleskinner » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:20 am

In the O_C you have the quad LFO app but you also have Piqued which is four envelopes that can be used as unipolar LFOs. This is what I've been using as it's more flexible generally. They go slow as you like and have a wealth of triggering/delay options so you can set them up synced/offset like a 'normal' dual or quad LFO. You can even set them to trigger a set number of repeats, on euclidean patterns, or trigger when one of the other envelopes reaches end of cycle. It's incredibly flexible but at the expense of a bit of menu diving.

I think you may be overthinking this a bit tbh. You just need to make sure whatever you choose can go slow enough, then, like most things, it's down to the functionality you require vs the ergonomics and there's usually some tradeoff between the two.
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Re: LFO \ ADSR

Post by rossdedo » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:12 am

Thank you very much to all.
Anyway, i'm going to E355 direction that satisfy me about sound and functions. I want to play with all the modules (and tools) i have now for some time and i will decide how i can complete my rack soon.
Thanks again to all. :tu:
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