Playable Sequencer

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orbita
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by orbita » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:28 pm

Flamusic wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:53 am
Can some one tell me whats the most playable sequencer in Eurorack ?
I like the feature on the Voltageblock a lot to press several steps to play them back in the order i press them.
Is this possible with any other sequencer ?
I think answer to just about any subjective "which is the most" question in modular is going to be answered by a combination of "it depends what you want" and "the one you build by combining other modules"

Eg 2 not very playable sequencers can be combined with things like a mixer, a switch or logic to provide something much more playable.

Also some sequencers that on the surface appear very playable - such as the metropolis or Rene can be difficult to play in a predictive manner and can also lead to very repetitive sequences without supporting modules to either mute them or mess with their clocks.

Then there is the approach you wish to take - do you wish to play/program the sequence, do you want something to generate a sequence for you, both predictable or random. Do you want your Gates and CVs to come from the same or different sources?

I rather like Marbles for pitch - it generates random sequences that you can take a snapshot of, manipulate it's length, range, bias and add in slight random changes over time. It's playable - but is it a sequencer?

I like Steppy for simple predictable gate sequences and Four bricks rook for tapping in my own.

FLXS1 is great for coming up with insane sequences with arps embedded in them and it has CV control but notes are dialed in with a single knob so I don't think many would call it playable.

Varigate+VB make a powerful combo and they are very playable but the lack of statefulness regarding the faders can also makes them hard to play.

I've also got Rene2, Metroplis and Trigger Riot and I'm yet to gel with them but have only had limited time so far.

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Lokua
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by Lokua » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:00 pm

otnemem wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:39 am
Lokua wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:24 pm
Keltie wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 am
Westlicht Performer. It’s a bit divey, and a bit deep. I’m still working with it at quite a surface level, tbh, but the potential is there, no doubt.
I second this. It's more playable than an elektron sequencer, that is westlicht got everything right where elektron didn't. It's got transposition, not loosing the "1" when changing pattern length to and fro, separating conditional triggers from probability, different divisions and scales per track, 4 CV in to top it off, plus more.
I would be quite curious to know what you mean by what Westlicht got right and Elektron didn't? Not trying to be sarcastic...really keen to hear about these differences. I have recently got a first Elektron device and found the sequencer to be quite playable and powerful. I'm also looking at whether the Performer could add to my current set up.
Sure thing I will elaborate. First, as an aside in all fairness I could have been a little less rude toward Elektron. It's not so much a matter of not getting things "right", although there is one very important thing it did absolute get wrong IMHO and that is mentioned in my original reply:

"not loosing the "1" when changing pattern length to and fro"

This is extremely important if you want to do polymetric sequencing and especially if you want to switch track lengths on the fly. If you do this on an Elektron Digitakt (and I assume this goes for all of their boxes), for example change a track's length from 16 to 3, and then change it back to 16, there is a very high chance that track will no longer by in sync with the other tracks that are 16 in length unless you have a hard pattern reset, which defeats the purpose (ie. you had a length of 3 but it reset every 16, it would no longer be polymetric). It's just wrong, and it's simple math to get right (the current step on a track should be the total count of steps since the transport start modulo the track's step length, always). Performer does not suffer from this. You can change from 7 to 11 and it will continue as if it was set to 11 the entire time and never be off even when changing patterns. It's the difference between queuing the next pattern to play after a certain count (which you can do on both) and immediate take over (which I'm pretty sure you cannot do with an Elektron box at all). This is absolutely amazing and should be considered standard behavior on all sequencers, but is often overlooked because - well I'm not sure why. You can really take advantage of this on the Performer's pattern page where you can play patterns live like a keyboard player (and I think you can also only change certain tracks between patterns instead of the whole pattern - WHAT!?!). Just to make this clear: if you have Pattern 1 with Track 1 set to length 5, and Pattern 2 with Track 1 also set to 5, if you just so happen to change to Pattern 2 immediately after Step 3 in Track 1's eyes has passed, Pattern 2 will take over right there at step 4, correctly.

So that's the one thing Elektron got "wrong" in my eyes. In no world do I want to change a tracks length and loose its relative offset from the start of the sequencer, but beyond that I want to change patterns on the fly mid-sequence without it just plain old falling off beat. Other things Performer does better than Elektron, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, I know a new firmware was released for some of devices but haven't upgraded yet:

- Performer supports different track divisions per-track, and there are 16 different options (64ths up to 2 bars I believe as well as triplet variants for all of those). Elektron supports just half or double time for the entire pattern (something like that)

- Performer's trig conditions are separate from probability entirely (although I think Elektron's latest firmware improves on this a bit - I think it just made is easier to not have to scroll through the 100 probability values before selecting a trig condition)

So yeah, those are three things I think Performer got right in comparison to Elektron, but those are just the things that are fair to compare. I'm not listing pure features that Elektron lacks like song mode, transposing multiple steps at time, rotating steps absolutely or relatively, play directions, scale quantization, note ranges, length ranges.

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BaloErets
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by BaloErets » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:28 pm

I find the USTA to be insanely "playable" in the context of creating a sequence, evolving that sequence, moving that evolution to another pattern, and evolving some more. There's something about it that gets it into that "instrument" boundary.
Lokua wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:24 pm
Keltie wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 am
Westlicht Performer. It’s a bit divey, and a bit deep. I’m still working with it at quite a surface level, tbh, but the potential is there, no doubt.
I second this. It's more playable than an elektron sequencer, that is westlicht got everything right where elektron didn't. It's got transposition, not loosing the "1" when changing pattern length to and fro, separating conditional triggers from probability, different divisions and scales per track, 4 CV in to top it off, plus more.
Not to diss the Performer, because it looks like an amazing workhorse, but in the context of this thread regarding playable sequencers I felt quite the opposite. It felt almost like a non-playable version of USTA feature-wise. I guess this comes down to having 1 encoder on the module vs having an encoder for each stage of the sequence, but I didn't get the vibe that it's immediate to jam with.

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NewNewRon
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by NewNewRon » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm

I'm enjoying this -

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by otnemem » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:04 am

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Agree that pattern switching does feel a bit awkward. Even though i have only had 3 weeks of experience with Elektron, i've had a fair share of situations where tracks fell out of sync. Other than that i am quite happy with Elektron's sequencing abilities.

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by orbita » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:54 am

Lokua wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:00 pm
otnemem wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:39 am
Lokua wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:24 pm
Keltie wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 am
Westlicht Performer. It’s a bit divey, and a bit deep. I’m still working with it at quite a surface level, tbh, but the potential is there, no doubt.
I second this. It's more playable than an elektron sequencer, that is westlicht got everything right where elektron didn't. It's got transposition, not loosing the "1" when changing pattern length to and fro, separating conditional triggers from probability, different divisions and scales per track, 4 CV in to top it off, plus more.
I would be quite curious to know what you mean by what Westlicht got right and Elektron didn't? Not trying to be sarcastic...really keen to hear about these differences. I have recently got a first Elektron device and found the sequencer to be quite playable and powerful. I'm also looking at whether the Performer could add to my current set up.
Sure thing I will elaborate. First, as an aside in all fairness I could have been a little less rude toward Elektron. It's not so much a matter of not getting things "right", although there is one very important thing it did absolute get wrong IMHO and that is mentioned in my original reply:

"not loosing the "1" when changing pattern length to and fro"

This is extremely important if you want to do polymetric sequencing and especially if you want to switch track lengths on the fly. If you do this on an Elektron Digitakt (and I assume this goes for all of their boxes), for example change a track's length from 16 to 3, and then change it back to 16, there is a very high chance that track will no longer by in sync with the other tracks that are 16 in length unless you have a hard pattern reset, which defeats the purpose (ie. you had a length of 3 but it reset every 16, it would no longer be polymetric). It's just wrong, and it's simple math to get right (the current step on a track should be the total count of steps since the transport start modulo the track's step length, always). Performer does not suffer from this. You can change from 7 to 11 and it will continue as if it was set to 11 the entire time and never be off even when changing patterns. It's the difference between queuing the next pattern to play after a certain count (which you can do on both) and immediate take over (which I'm pretty sure you cannot do with an Elektron box at all). This is absolutely amazing and should be considered standard behavior on all sequencers, but is often overlooked because - well I'm not sure why. You can really take advantage of this on the Performer's pattern page where you can play patterns live like a keyboard player (and I think you can also only change certain tracks between patterns instead of the whole pattern - WHAT!?!). Just to make this clear: if you have Pattern 1 with Track 1 set to length 5, and Pattern 2 with Track 1 also set to 5, if you just so happen to change to Pattern 2 immediately after Step 3 in Track 1's eyes has passed, Pattern 2 will take over right there at step 4, correctly.

So that's the one thing Elektron got "wrong" in my eyes. In no world do I want to change a tracks length and loose its relative offset from the start of the sequencer, but beyond that I want to change patterns on the fly mid-sequence without it just plain old falling off beat. Other things Performer does better than Elektron, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, I know a new firmware was released for some of devices but haven't upgraded yet:

- Performer supports different track divisions per-track, and there are 16 different options (64ths up to 2 bars I believe as well as triplet variants for all of those). Elektron supports just half or double time for the entire pattern (something like that)

- Performer's trig conditions are separate from probability entirely (although I think Elektron's latest firmware improves on this a bit - I think it just made is easier to not have to scroll through the 100 probability values before selecting a trig condition)

So yeah, those are three things I think Performer got right in comparison to Elektron, but those are just the things that are fair to compare. I'm not listing pure features that Elektron lacks like song mode, transposing multiple steps at time, rotating steps absolutely or relatively, play directions, scale quantization, note ranges, length ranges.
Be careful lumping all Elektrons together, there is a surprising number of differences between them. For example the Rytm and A4 can change patterns on the fly mid sequence but the others can't. Arp properties can be plocked on octatrack but not A4; the octatrack, rytm and A4 have song modes and they are different (chaining vs arranging) but the digi* don't.

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evileye0702
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by evileye0702 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:51 pm

Although not exactly Eurorack, the KOMA Komplex is very playable.

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by ATW » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:02 pm

Metropolis, A-155, and Klee look fun and are at the top of my 'playable' sequencer list. Probably (at least in part) because of Mylar and Steevio youtubes.

A couple highly *playable* pitch sequencing things I have been digging lately:
• Stepped random CV (Pam's, Mimetic Digitalis) going into Shades before going into a quantizer. Shades then becomes a super easy pitch wrangler knob.
• Also enjoying Klavis Flexshaper in the same role as Shades, or in tandem w/ Shades. I'll manually shape the pitch CV in this kind of wonderfully organic way, isolating + waveshaping individual frequency bands and getting these interesting pitch clusters at different octaves.

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by cruelangelthesis » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:29 pm

Five12 vector is very fun and jammable, very easy to modify sequences on the fly. The sub sequencers can do some brilliant things with just very little effort.

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ronaldroy
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by ronaldroy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:54 pm

Arturia Minibrute 2s ... !

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by mixxalot » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:22 pm

NewNewRon wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm
I'm enjoying this -
Definitely looks fun! I have the 0-ctrl sequencer which is sort of a mini version of Pressure Points but the ARC Serge one looks amazing.

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by jingo » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:44 pm

cruelangelthesis wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:29 pm
Five12 vector is very fun and jammable, very easy to modify sequences on the fly. The sub sequencers can do some brilliant things with just very little effort.
Exactly, most immediate sequencer in my eyes...

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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by SlyFrank » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:03 pm

NewNewRon wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm
I'm enjoying this -
Wow, this looks amazing - never seen it before. How do you go from banana to 3.5 mm? A format jumbler? If so, what do you connect the black ground jack (on the jumbler) to on the sequencer?

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NewNewRon
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Re: Playable Sequencer

Post by NewNewRon » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:42 pm

The ARC Serge Sequencer is Eurorack. My system is Eurorack. I can connect to the few banana modules I have via the usual boxes and modules.

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