LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

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LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:54 pm

so this has been around for a while now, but I've got the second prototype running and it is without mistakes. Which means I will go into production soon.

Here is what it is:
It is a 2HP module that is meant to be used with the Euclidean Circles by VPME.de (short: EC). It replaces the six switches expander as way to mute the outputs of EC. It runs the firmware of our Schleußig module. If you don't know what that is: basically a muting module that can mute grouped channels (multiple channels at the exact same moment) and also in sync to your overall clock. i.e. you want to switch channels on or off at the beginning of a bar or so.

Here is how it looks like next to EC:
Image

It connects to the EC as the 6 switches would do.

The top connector is clock input with being configured to:
MIDI input (3.5mm TRS auto x-over), Clock 4ppqn or Clock 24ppqn

The lower input is async reset to mark the beginning of a bar. (rising or falling edge configurable). One event at start is enough, the EC MUTE counts continuously from there. If you use MIDI you don't need reset in BUT you actually still can.
Also the connector is at the bottom to hold the panel, if you really hate the position: the top connector is TRS with the Ring also being a reset input (compatible to Arturias Beatstep Pro DIN-SYNC output). Use a Y-Cable there and forget about the lower connector.

Depth is 4.5cm behind the panel (first prototype was 5.5cm) which is ok with my Intellijel Performance Case 104/7U

Image

Additional internal connectors:
- Alt In: connects to the 8 input 2HP expander of Schleußig where the first 6 ins get routed to the out of EC when the channel is muted. 7&8 gets OR-ed to 1&2
- Clock & Reset: provides a 4ppqn clock & reset for EC that works regardless of the input clock (first clock pre-shifted to avoid the famous EC sync problem) - you can connect to the normal pins of the inputs of EC from here (and still being able to input something else from the front)
- Link: link multiple "group" presses when you have more than 1 module (also for Schleußig) or attach external footswitch maybe.
- Internal MIDI input from other modules as Pamelas New Workout or our WK3

PRICE .. not yet set. I am waiting on a quote for the panels. (the delaying factor in the moment)

However I made 5 units and have 3 spare that I might be willing to sell to the immensely impatient customers. :mrgreen:

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:58 pm

Another hint: the I/Os are protected so you can actually make yourself a I/O module for it and use it without EC for any kind of gate signal.

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by Borgbilly » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:12 pm

Super excited about this device. I love my EC and will love it even more with this added capability. I'll be first in line to buy one.

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 am

kay_k wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:58 pm
Another hint: the I/Os are protected so you can actually make yourself a I/O module for it and use it without EC for any kind of gate signal.
Hey, so I can use a passive module, with pins in the back and jacks in the front, to use as Ins/Outs and then use the EC-MUTE to turn these on/off ? If so, how much? When? :hihi:
And how many channels? 6? Any documentation to learn how it works? I need to understand how I can utilize it in my setup, it seems to fit right in.

What does the MIDI pin do? Wait for MIDI clock? I have a million questions, let's talk! It seems perfect for my setup!
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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 am
kay_k wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:58 pm
Another hint: the I/Os are protected so you can actually make yourself a I/O module for it and use it without EC for any kind of gate signal.
Hey, so I can use a passive module, with jacks, to use as Ins/Outs and then use the EC-MUTE to turn these on/off ? If so, how much? When? :hihi:
yeah - it's like a miniature digital Schleußig then - the 12 I/Os should fit in 4hp plus 2 jacks for the clock 4ppqn + reset output.
If you are good with soldering you could even do things like hard-wiring it to modules that do not have a Output-breaker like EC. For instance Grids would be cool for this (taking out the 1K output protection resistor and attach the I/O cables there)

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:47 am

Regarding price and availability: I have to wait for the panel manufacturer for an ETA. I also have to get a quote from the SMT assembly (cos for the first time I plan to not doing that part myself).

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:52 am

kay_k wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 am
yeah - it's like a miniature digital Schleußig then - the 12 I/Os should fit in 4hp plus 2 jacks for the clock 4ppqn + reset output.
If you are good with soldering you could even do things like hard-wiring it to modules that do not have a Output-breaker like EC. For instance Grids would be cool for this (taking out the 1K output protection resistor and attach the I/O cables there)
Let me make it more specific, so I know it works. I'm using https://www.modulargrid.net/e/manikk-ot ... ive-stereo which has stereo jacks and pins to access those in the back (see here: https://manikk.com/product/otto-passive-stereo/ i curious) so I'm currently using jumper cables between the Otto and the SDS_Digital Melisma to expand the available MIDI In/Out from the Melisma's back pins to jacks. It works like a charm!

I'm thinking I could lose the Melisma MIDI output which now occupies a jack on the Otto, keep the MIDI input on the jack of the Otto. That would give me 7 jacks to work with with the EC-MUTE. So three tracks for Input/Output (3x2) and maybe the Reset output from the EC-MUTE as a pulse at the 7th jack? Not sure if I can do something with Y-cables since the jacks on the Otto are stereo but I doubt that's possible. :hmm:

I would also probably plug the Melisma MIDI output pin directly to the EC-MUTE's MIDI pin to allow the Melisma to send Clock information and whatever else it is the EC-MUTE can respond to via MIDI. Hence my question about what that MIDI pin is for on the EC-MUTE.
kay_k wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:47 am
Regarding price and availability: I have to wait for the panel manufacturer for an ETA. I also have to get a quote from the SMT assembly (cos for the first time I plan to not doing that part myself).
None of the 3 available promo units available? Anyway, I'm definitely interested if these become available anytime soon. Just trying to figure out how far I can push this in this setup. The case also has a small passive module that replaces jumpers with switches by bringing these to the front of the case. I see lots of pins, but no jumpers on the EC-MUTE, right? No option to control via switches, right?

Apologies for the very specific questions!
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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:28 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:52 am
...
I'm thinking I could lose the Melisma MIDI output which now occupies a jack on the Otto, keep the MIDI input on the jack of the Otto. That would give me 7 jacks to work with with the EC-MUTE. So three tracks for Input/Output (3x2) and maybe the Reset output from the EC-MUTE as a pulse at the 7th jack? Not sure if I can do something with Y-cables since the jacks on the Otto are stereo but I doubt that's possible. :hmm:

I would also probably plug the Melisma MIDI output pin directly to the EC-MUTE's MIDI pin to allow the Melisma to send Clock information and whatever else it is the EC-MUTE can respond to via MIDI. Hence my question about what that MIDI pin is for on the EC-MUTE.

...

None of the 3 available promo units available? Anyway, I'm definitely interested if these become available anytime soon. Just trying to figure out how far I can push this in this setup. The case also has a small passive module that replaces jumpers with switches by bringing these to the front of the case. I see lots of pins, but no jumpers on the EC-MUTE, right? No option to control via switches, right?

Apologies for the very specific questions!
errrr .. lots to digest there. How typical Konstantine of you :mrgreen: :hihi:

The Otto Passive .. If you use Y-splitters you could do: each jack is an In and Out .. so 6 jacks for the 6 channels. Slim but not very ergonomic.
With Y-splitters the Reset&Clock could also occupy only one jack. BUT (I guess that will be disappointing for you) I implemented the reset to only blip once at the very beginning, so EC can run freely the rest of the time until you stop and start again (I hate when polymetrics get reset after a certain time, unless I specifically want that).

BTW: the clock out is tuned for EC, i.e. no matter the source of the EC-Mute module (MIDI/24PPQN) that out will always be 4PPQN and the very first clock pulse will be shifted by 1ms in regards to the reset phase so the famous EC one step late failure doesn't happen.

I also thought about offering the passive 4HP I/O myself but for now I do not have the time for that.

There are no switches on the back that you'd need for a performance. there is a switch for setting the clock jack to either MIDI or standard clock and a jumper to feed in internal MIDI from another module as clock reference (Pam's New Workout for instance or coming from our WK3)

K

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:04 am

Yeah, sorry, my cases are small, but I always make them super complicated.

I'm unsure whether Y-cables is the way to go, but I like the idea of taking advantage of all the switches. Essentially what these are doing is making or breaking a connection, right? So if these work on a passive module with jacks, I wonder if they'd also work as a switch for jumper connections. Ha! Have you tried that? Some modules have nice functionality as jumpers, would be a new selling point to automate that via a 2hp module.

Have you found appropriate Y-cables for this? I use standard headphone Y-cables but I haven't found something that separates tip from sleeve in smaller jacks. I'll have to search.

Also, I went through the Schleußig documentation. Just one question, does the Hold mode mean I set the channels on/off and then do the group hold/release as separate actions? I didn't exactly get it from the manual. The rest were clear enough.

Anyway, after much thought I'm definitely in!!!
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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:53 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:04 am
Yeah, sorry, my cases are small, but I always make them super complicated.

I'm unsure whether Y-cables is the way to go, but I like the idea of taking advantage of all the switches. Essentially what these are doing is making or breaking a connection, right? So if these work on a passive module with jacks, I wonder if they'd also work as a switch for jumper connections. Ha! Have you tried that? Some modules have nice functionality as jumpers, would be a new selling point to automate that via a 2hp module.

Have you found appropriate Y-cables for this? I use standard headphone Y-cables but I haven't found something that separates tip from sleeve in smaller jacks. I'll have to search.

Also, I went through the Schleußig documentation. Just one question, does the Hold mode mean I set the channels on/off and then do the group hold/release as separate actions? I didn't exactly get it from the manual. The rest were clear enough.

Anyway, after much thought I'm definitely in!!!
Yeah, that was what I was saying .. Y-cables is not very ergonomic for stuff you want to be able to patch. So I'd rather do a 4HP breakout with mono jacks
(btw. the clock input of EC-MUTE is TRS so if you don't use it with midi, tip is clock and ring can be reset, so the lower jack doesn't have to be used)
I have Y-spitters that are meh, they are 5cm long from TRS male to 2 TS female. the TS jacks are super but the TRS plug is humongous :/

Using the device instead of jumpers: only if said jumpers carry a digital information in one direction. The EC Mute switches logic.
Even if: it doesn't always mean that this could work, for instance: I have a Transient 4R whose jumpers take effect only after a power cycle.

The Hold feature:
without hold enabled the toggling goes active directly after you release the group button (delayed when sync enabled of course).
with hold enabled you can select the group, release the group button but nothing happens until you press group a second time (and don't change the selection). Which works better when preparing a drop after a break.

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by utsurururu » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:15 am

Hey, this module looks awesome, do you have some update regarding a release date for it? Thanks!

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Re: LPZW.modules EC-MUTE

Post by kay_k » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:11 pm

I am waiting for the panels in the moment .. I have no clue when they are going to be here.

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